Lotus Rebel

Hello Been reading online about the UDT Laystall Team Lotus Elite entry that was fitted with the 742cc Coventry Climax FWMC engine at the 1961 Le Mans 24 Hours in the S 850 Racing category, just curious to know if any output and other figures exist for the 742cc FWMC engine? Since little to no information of note seems to be available about it apart from the earlier FWMA going on to be developed into the Imp engine, especially keen to know how it compared to the regular 1216cc FWE powered Elite Type 14s that competed in the GT 1300 category.

Am interested in the content of the file Parramind, from the September 1969 date am assuming it is regarding the background of the Lotus 900 Series engine and its planned usage at that point or are there other little known aspects it delves into?

Heard some claim there were two missing or seemingly unused Lotus Type numbers in Type 66 and Type 71, both of which have been used in reference to the precursor project at Lotus of what eventually evolved into the Clan Crusader. Type 71 might make some degree of sense in making the Clan precursor a parallel / rival project that lost out against the proposal which evolved into the Lotus Esprit (aka Project M70). Seem to recall reading in Graham Robson's Cosworth - The Search for Power the DFV has a potential displacement range of 2500-4000cc, along with the Kent/Crossflow being capable of growing up to 1650-1700cc that eventually became the basis for the Vegantune Twin-Cam engines. It is unfortunate Ford UK were lumbered with the Essex V4 instead of producing a slightly bigger Kent/Crossflow 1700-2000cc half-relation that could have underpinned the next step after the Lotus Twin-Cam prior to the Lotus 900 Series engines along similar lines to the Cosworth BDA Series. Was the extent of Rover's involvement with the Elise (besides the K-Series) limited to just the use aluminum via Project Vinland (or another project) or was what eventually became the MGF originally intended to be more closely related with the Elise than it ended up being? Speaking of the Elise, found it perplexing the 103 hp 1.4 K-Series was never considered as an entry-level model given it was just as capable of putting out more power as the 1.8 K-Series used in the Elise without being being on a stretched out engine as was the case with the 1.6/1.8 K-Series/etc that helped contribute to the bad rep of the K-Series.

Hello all, here is my admittingly very belated introduction. My interest in Lotus is mainly regarding little known historical aspects of the company, along with queries on Lotus’s many projects over the decades to clarify small tidbits already partly available either online or in books (always open to any comprehensive recommendations) as well as demystifying any outlandish nonsense that has crept in over time. Also have an general fascination of exploring automotive what-ifs / alternative history (albeit premised as much as possible on what was originally considered), whether speculative or backed-up with evidence to form a more coherent picture of Lotus’s drifting product plans in the case of the latter such as: - - The BMC A-Series initially being considered as the basis of a possible replacement for the Elite’s Coventry Climax engines for what became the Elan prior to the development of the Kent-based Lotus Twin-Cam before being rejected on the basis of there being no long term evolution plan for the engine. Only for Lotus to later play a role years later in the development of the MG Metro Turbo and managing to extract 120-130 hp from the engine (which was soon detuned in order to prolong the life of the gearbox due to the limitations of the latter's in-sump layout). - http://www.lotuscortinainfo.com/?page_id=3551 - The roots of what became the Clan Crusader being a possible replacement for either the Seven or Europa as well as allegedly being derived from the Lotus M2 prototype, though it is not clarified whether the latter was derived from the original Elan test mule (albeit converted to rear-engined RWD) or was basically another project that reused the original Elan project’s codename. The following link is one of a few passing online references available that mention the M2 project together with the Clan Crusader. - https://www.imps4ever.info/specials/clan.html - Whether there was further scope in the design of the 4011cc Lotus Type 909 V8 or 1973-2174cc Slant-Four engines for even larger displacements had things gone to plan akin to the Vauxhall Slant-Four (e.g. 2279cc+), let alone investigation on a related 90-degree V6. The conceptually similar Slant-Four / V8 engine jointly-developed by Saab and Triumph (together with Ricardo) for example was designed with displacement ranges of 1250-2000cc in Slant-Four and 2500-4000cc in V8 forms, with the related Saab H Slant-Four engine being further enlarged to 2290cc. - The Norton rotary powered MG Metro prototype’s apparent links to Lotus’s Project Nora, despite it not being clarified whether this FWD 2+2 coupe was to be based on the Metro or a clean-sheet design prior to it being abandoned. - https://www.nortonownersclub.org/history/rotary - The Lotus M90 / X100 also being planned to feature the 2.2 Lotus engine above the 1.6 Toyota 4AGE at one point during its development, together with the prospect of a turbocharged Toyota 4AGE preceding the 1.6 Isuzu 4XE1WT in the Elan M100. - Apart from the 1.6 Isuzu X engines used in the Elan M100, was there any Lotus involvement with the all-alloy 32-valve 240+ hp 3.5-litre/3.6-litre Isuzu V8 engine used in the Chevrolet Feretta V8 prototype as a prospective V8 engine for the Esprit? Was it derived from the 350 hp 4.2-litre V8 used in the Isuzu 4200R that Lotus also had a role in developing or was it somehow based on either the Type 909 V8 or less likely the GM LT5? Also heard the Isuzu X 4-cylinder, Isuzu V V6 and the above-mentioned Isuzu V8s were related to each other along with the V12 used in the Lotus 102C F1 car and Isuzu Como concept. - What was the story behind the V6 engine project Toyota gave Lotus during the 1980s, was it originally considered for the Excel, Esprit or another car by Toyota as well as if the V6 was a stillborn project or ultimately entered production as the Toyota VZ or Toyota MZ. - Lotus’s work with Chrysler on a number of projects, whether the plan was for Lotus itself to use the Chrysler 2.2/2.5-litre engines in the Esprit (or Excel) in place of the 2.0/2.2 Lotus engines or for Chrysler to use the Esprit as the basis for its own halo car using said engines (along with a 255 hp 3.5-litre Lamborghini Jalpa V8 via the AWD Dodge Daytona Decepzione prototype that Lotus was also involved with). - https://www.aronline.co.uk/opinion/chrysler-esprit/ - The Lotus Type 918 V8 reputedly being a clean-sheet design unrelated to the earlier 900 Series engines that was originally intended for the stillborn M220 project (despite being evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary in concept), yet based on a modular design ultimately capable of spawning inline-four, V-4, and/or V-6 offspring. How much growth in displacement was the Type 918 V8 capable of considering the Elan 635 project was envisioned as having a presumably related 2-litre 4-cylinder engine. - https://www.motortrend.com/news/lotus-esprit-v8/ - On the subject of the M220 project, had it been given the go-ahead when was it envisioned to reach production and replace the Esprit? - Speaking of the Elan 635 project and the 635 project in general, due to being envisioned as featuring a 2-litre 4-cylinder engine would it be correct to say the original plan had it reached production was for the model to slot above what eventually became the Lotus Elise or was it a case of the latter growing into a role originally planned for the Elan 635 project? - Additionally was the Lotus Elise always intended to be the recipient of the Rover K-Series engine during its development or were other prospective engines considered whether from outside sources or some version of the aforementioned in-house 4-cylinder intended for the Elan 635? - Know the KV6 was considered for the Lotus Elise Coupe Type 120 prototype (along with the 1.6 V8 twin-turbo from the Suzuki C2 concept) before it evolved into the Type 121 Lotus Europa S, though did the company ever investigate using a V6 like the GM High Feature V6 given the links Lotus had with GM at the time (or some other V6 alternative)? Am sure there are other missing Lotus tidbits and projects from the list though the above is what stands out.

Understand, seen the odd reference online though nothing specific.

Was wondering if you could clear up a few things regarding Clan's links to Lotus? Read elsewhere of the Clan Crusader being based on a stillborn Lotus project dubbed the "M2" (for some reason carrying over the same name as the original Elan project) that was originally conceived as potential replacement for the Lotus Seven prior to the founders of Clan leaving Lotus to set up their own company. If the above tidbit is accurate do any images exist of the prototype in question or what the story was behind the project beyond the very patchy information online (and Colin Chapman's well-known ambition to move Lotus away from its kit-car roots)? While envisioned as a Lotus Seven replacement would it be correct to view the project in retrospect as the Lotus analogue of the similarly Imp-based TVR Tina prototype?

Recently discovered in Oliver Winterbottom's book the existence of the Lotus M80 2-seater during the early/mid-1970s as a potential successor to the Lotus Elan (preceding the Harris Mann designed Lotus M80 aka Lotus Eminence by a decade), which apparently was to be based on a modified Elite M50 platform whilst its appearance was to be a development of the Eclat M52 with the proposal envisioning a 2-litre Lotus unit mated to a four or five speed gearbox. Despite being critical of certain aspects (and believing the M80 should have a less powerful engine) it seems Colin Chapman was very keen to develop the idea further until it was put to a stop due to lack of money. Am assuming the 2-litre engine would have been closer to the Jensen-Healey's 140-144 hp figure had the M80 2-seater reached production (compared to the 155-160 hp Elite / Eclat spec engines) unless Colin Chapman meant less powerful engine for the M80 as needing a lower-displacement unit instead of being detuned, nevertheless it is good to know Lotus did indeed make an attempt to replace the original Elan with an Elite-based 2-seater even if it is a shame the company were not in a position to produce such a car.

Understand, will look to take query over there.

Apart from notably using Isuzu 4XE1 engines and tail-lights from the Alpine GTA/A610, to what extent did the FWD Elan M100 carry over mechanicals from other GM (or non-GM) products like the R-Body Isuzu Gemini II/III and Isuzu Piazza II / Impulse? Also interested to know what else was planned for the M100 had it been success beyond a possible coupe version and an uprated 180 hp engine (not sure whether latter was a tuned 1.6 Isuzu 4XE1WT turbo or possible turbocharged 1.8 4XF1)?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Thanks. So based on the papers that were uploaded elsewhere the proposed 2-litre +2 was known as the "M60" and amongst other things entailed the +2 being slightly widened, slightly increased wheelbase and an extra 90 lbs / 40.8kgs over the existing Elan +2 along with a 5-speed gearbox and possible automatic, yet with a projected top-speed of 148 mph and 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds for a roughly 2-3 year production run from 1971 exclusively for the UK market. Am assuming hp figures for the proposed 2-litre engine would have been roughly the same as the Jensen-Healey though wonder where talk of the 1800cc came in? Maybe via my limited conjecture it originated from Jensen-Healey since a hypothetical 1800cc version would have still met Jensen-Healey's power target of 130 hp as opposed to the 144 hp production model, only for Chapman to likely insist on a 2-litre (for Jensen) and nothing else? As for the 412 Elan, was it limited to just using the 412 diff on a 126 hp Sprint or on another lower-powered version (possibly with a 5-speed gearbox)? Is it known who was the individual on the marketing team at Lotus was with the initials GA that the link was citing a source?

Thanks for the clarification. Pity there is no truth on either a proposed 1800cc Lotus 900 Series nor a proper 1970s pre-M90 replacement for the Elan.

Interesting, looking forward to hearing more. Especially if it could have either potentially extended the life of the Elan +2 a bit more or prompted Lotus to develop a smaller more direct 1800-2000cc Elite / Eclat derived successor to the Elan, both of which could have perhaps even butterflied away the the M90 and M100 (along with the Evante).

Based on the following link is there anymore to the story on Lotus doing some styling exercises of an Elan +2 with the then upcoming Lotus 900 Series engine? Apparently some within Lotus (possibly within the context of the 1973 Oil Crisis) wanted an 1800cc version of the engine in an Elan +2 based car as a stop-gap to sort out engine issues prior to the launch of the Lotus Elite, only for Colin Chapman to insist on a 2-litre and nothing else. - http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16461&f=51&start=15#p84025 Previously sought to have a similar question answered a number of years back regarding Lotus investigating lower displacement versions of the Lotus 900 Series though did not get much of a response, partly because was then unable to find the relevant information on my end.

Not really what am after. Thought the sub-2.0 900 Series might also be connected to the Jensen-Healey or in the context of the 1973 Oil Crisis for the then upcoming Elite / Eclat though cannot seem to find anything even in the Yellow Book.