Loquacious Lew
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Posts posted by Loquacious Lew
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They don’t need any more excitement around the Emira here. An order placed today won’t reasonably be delivered for two years as we won’t be getting cars in numbers to satisfy orders for at least that long. This assumes that orders so far In place aren’t pulled by impatient buyers but the surplus of demand over supply is so strong that it is even raising used prices on Evoras here as people who never considered Lotus are suddenly salivating all over the marque. But of course the vast bulk of the heat is directed at Emira.
Even so, an unbalanced supply/demand situation can also be extremely difficult if not dangerous for a manufacturer as more time passes. I could explain this further but the reasons why being unable to supply the market with enough product is unhealthy are self evident.
The “big brass” tours currently underway here have been very well received overall but they seem more goodwill hunting than necessary sales events. We simply won’t get enough cars fast enough to meet what seems to be a very strong tide of demand.
There is no way to compare owning a Lotus here to owning one on your fair islands. We have many fewer trusted dealers and service and parts support, however good or bad you think it is in GB, is woefully inadequate for the USA. Even so, demand for Emira is surely something Lotus has never experienced here, or at least hasn’t had since the first Elise sales in 2005. I’m waiting to order mine until I can determine what the development arc of this car might be but if I was on the list, I’d stay there for now. However Lotus must surely be aware that not all pre orders will remain on the books if delivery time remain as they are.
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Patience is a mixed blessing because it comes with age.
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On 14/07/2021 at 23:10, DarrylV8 said:@Loquacious Lewyou certainly have a lot more than I, patience that is
I didn't have much experience with Lotus when I decided to forego a C7 Grand Sport and buy a racing green Evora. I had already ruled out a CaymanS, and the GT4 was out of production. I went with the more expensive, supposedly slower and less well equipped Evora but it was the best drive of the cars I had on my radar, including any 911s I would be comfortable to budget for. Then the 410s and 430s hit the UK market. We only got ten 410s here and while they were nice in carbon fiber and, I think, have different shock mounts, I'd just taken delivery of my car. I didn't see that much difference between our 410 and the 400 anyway. By the time the GTs arrived here, I'd owned my car for well over 2 years and it was becoming an old friend. I had shaken it out, had faith in it but it was still new, including the smell inside. Yet again, I couldn't justify getting another new one of those even though I liked the GT trim better. Like many, I didn't see it worth taking the hit on my still fabulous-to-me car to get a GT that in reality was not all that different. Would I trade my 400 a a GT? Yes, in the right livery but not for $30K and not in the wrong tint. That's how I regard the differences and the costs.
The people who get the first Emira's will be as fine as I am in my 400. If all goes well for Lotus, I'm in when the "Emira GTs" are loosed. Lotus will do all it can to make sure the very first cars are built to the highest standards they can manage since they can't afford to do otherwise. The technologies are all proven. There is nothing in the Emira that hasn't been tried before. It should be ace. The unique aspect is the combination of features, style and high spirited capabilities of the new factory that makes the temporal placement of this car important measured against Lotus' new direction. It adds even more appeal for many, I'm sure. That is, it's the last of them. But since it's not a limited production item, I'll score mine eventually.
So it's not a quality thing or even a lack of desire that holds me back. I just don't want to buy it twice out of animal instinct before the spec I want is released. The only problem is if this first spec and trim is the only V6 spec, suggesting they don't provide us an opportunity on an improve trim variation. Then I'll have to consider buying one used or getting the hot I-4 trim. Used would be ok though. It's a Toyota.
And that's how I talked myself out of buying this new hot car this week!
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I've had such a good experience with the V6 manual in my 400 that it's the spec I would opt for in an Emira. I'm keeping my 400 regardless but I'll be watching this space and awaiting further developments as it's taking every shred of will power I have to stay off the list. I have my reasons for wanting to be patient.
My Evora is representative of the first of the 4XX cars shipped over here. It's been so satisfying to drive, it's set up to my liking, I trust it, I like seeing it in my garage, I own it, so it's a keeper. The benefit of thinking like this is that it allows me to be patient as the new car's arc is revealed. I'd like this one to represent peak Emira. If history is any guide, patience will be required for my spec to be announced.
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6 hours ago, Likuid said:
This is kind of where I am at and probably somewhat had to do with my initial disappointment in the Emira. To me the move from my 400 to the Emira feels like a more horizontal move, based on the current performance numbers we have been given. I might drive me 400 1 or 2 days a week during the driving time of year. For 4 or 5 months of the year it sits because of winter. So while the tech and improved looks are very nice, its still hard to justify right now without also seeing a performance jump. I am sure they will get there eventually with the Emira and maybe that day is the day I put in my order.
That's me. I want to know more about the development arc planned for the Emira. I'm looking for the one without the power seats! I want the tech though and it's gorgeous. Brilliant if they can keep it aspirational. It's exciting, can't wait to see a real one. .
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I think a lot
56 minutes ago, ramjet said:Wouldn't it then be possible to say that the Exige was just a reworked Elise, just bigger?
I think a lot of people do say that.
These cars share DNA in the extruded frame, the tuned suspensions with full adjustment, the hydraulic steering......the brakes.......and so on. Maybe it is all new and I got that wrong. I see the same brakes, same basic chassis, they look very similar, motor, transmission for the 6...the one I'd want.....and so on. Don't take me the wrong way. It's more than new enough for me. I think JayEmm got it wrong and said so in the comment section. I post under my name there.
To be clear, I love the Evora (and will have a mistress Emira to go with it) but agree with everyone else who owns an Evora that they don't always get the respect they deserve. I'd hate to see the Evora's legacy get trampled by the Emira as it rushes to be a mini Evija , to which it owes relatively less.
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My 2 cents.
I don't think they hid the fact that the chassis and running gear are really Evora based. I recall comments by Phil Popham saying they were going to make one more car based on the existing platform and that it would be IC and this is the result.
It carries a lot of Evora DNA over and I wish more talk outside the Lotus community would acknowledge that if only as a sop to those of us who bought into the essential goodness of the platform in the first place. That it can carry over to the Emira is testament to how good it is. This is as far as Lotus could go to make "an all new car" within the confines of it being the last IC Lotus so it was always going to have a lot of Evora under the skin. It would be nice if they were more upfront about that but the market will sort it all out. I think there will be enough people who want the Evora for what it is, simple, light and fast, and actually quite comfortable, As regards resale for Evora, if one can be patient it will all work out.If one needs to trade for an Emira or needs the money, somewhere in here is probably not the optimum time to sell.
I have no idea who makes KEF's head end for Lotus but I do know I don't ever want to have to buy one new from Lotus when the original one fails. I'm a buy, drive and hold kind of guy when it comes to cars like these and the Evora is perfect for me when viewed that way. I can change out the radio myself and for the most part it's not that complicated. If Lotus will keep us in parts, we can run the cars indefinitely. Parts can be hard here. I bitch about that all the time on LT. I assume they will be gearing up for Emira here to support it as it needs. I hope they remember my Evora while they are at it!
Anyway, I've been mulling over this titillating new vehicle and decided if it's the last Lotus, I'm buying the later version and not the first of the last, but the best of the last as I define it. Coming to my senses, I put a lithium battery in my 400 today and didn't call my local dealer with my spec (but I do have a spec!).
I have successfully fought back the urge to buy a place in line for the launch edition Emira, but it was a close thing. I'll be watching the arc of this and getting one at the right moment but I will not be selling my 400 to do that. I don't care if the 400 drop in price or the Emira goes up, as I expect they'll both do well in the long run. I think any success the Emira has will enhance the Evora's reputation and collector interest. The Evora has been an inside secret for years, always confused with the Eliges and always in their shadow but honestly, a superior road car for all but the most whacky.
The Emira is a home run, everybody can see that. It's up to Lotus to deliver of course and it's about more than just shipping the cars here and getting the influencers on board, but what a car! Now just say it! Without the Evora, there would be no Emira! The Emira owes more to the Evora than it does to the Evija but that will be our little secret for now.
Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
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On 20/06/2021 at 13:29, Cdm2018 said:
I watch a load of u tube videos on the Evora some of the US are actually affiliated to a driver car ethos but many of the reviews both private owners or dealers and some u tube versions of US car mags tend to focus on how the car does its 0-60mph times and overall horsepower of the car.
I guess US culture is still weighted towards the quarter mile drag times in between the lights as a measure of a car.Some of reviews focus on the handling capabilities but I don’t they truly connect with how car feels on the twisters as the US folk refer
Matt Farah is one of my favorite reviewers and his 400 and GT reviews are almost perfect from an owner's point of view. He shows what is for a reviewer, a complete understanding of the details.
I have been planning to keep my Evora but may place an order for an Emira depending on how impatient I am. I would prefer to monitor the arc of development and buy the "430" version of the Emira assuming there is one but the car is compelling to me as is. The AMG is not my preferred option, at least not as presented so far.
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I'm all for it and for Lotus to make the splash with this car they have been unable to do in the past. I thought the JB tie in suggested a new capability to promote the cars. Lotus deserves to succeed, Carr and his team did a bang up job and no doubt the engineering teams worked their hearts out to make it drive like a Lotus. I want one .
I just hope they don't forget those of us who bought new cars from them when things weren't looking so rosy. Evora parts availability in the USA is discouraging. I would like to keep my Evora as well as acquire an Emira. I hope that isn't too hard to do. There's big excitement about the Emira over here, including my own interest, but service and dealer access must rise to equal the product.
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The lack of even a mention of the 400 as the base car the later cars are all built upon tells us how little attention Motor Trend has paid to what has been the progress of the Evora. In my opinion, they are the least connected US magazine to enthusiast vehicles and values. Their (too) belated recognition of the Evora as a viable option is typical of their focus on American style performance to the exclusion of the feel and emotion cars like the Evora command. .
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Used Evora prices are stable here. '17 400s are sold at high $60Ks to $75K while '18s go for a little more although milage, equipment and condition are more important than vintage for 400s. But for the time being it seems like Evora prices are at a bottom. Now, for better or worse the used Evora population is so small that demand has started to meet or possibly even exceed supply. I get the impression that the Evora has finally made a dent in American car consciousness. I think Lotus sales were up near 40% last year. We know that's not really all that many cars but as a relative metric it's excellent and I would think encouraging to Lotus. Of course, the new cars can only be Evoras here and they are the most expensive Evora ever at that. That tends to drive the used market up a bit.
We're still Porsche and Corvette besotted but there are recently a few more people buying new GTs. First time buyers are notably present. Of course specialist interest and prices for Elise and Exige remain high. I think it would take a special Exige to go for 70K though and no Elise I am aware of has sold that high but 400s do. Nobody wants to sell one for $65,000 so you just don't see them priced there. GTs naturally cost more than any other modern road going Lotus here and are likely to stay that way but the real story for resale only gets told when Evoras are discontinued. Evora's relative depreciation is good in the states but they are still depreciating from new of course. Still, I drive mine a lot and don't expect those miles to be all that costly at this point in the car's life cycle.
As a rough guide older NAs are 30-40+K and S cars can go as high up to $60K for unique or special cars. At this point, you could say 400s cost 70K and up with a top at maybe $75K. There are always exceptions of course. I think the Evora has a bit more future here than it did 18 months ago as people speculate about what replaces it.
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10 hours ago, andydclements said:
I'm currently laughing at the fact that his banks are now pulling the rug from beneath his empire, and I very much doubt that other big players will be keen to support in their place (even if they secretly support or were simply comfortable to provide the banking) they'll probably choose to avoid the bad publicity and loss of other business that would follow.
This is just the beginning disappointment for him. The Proud Boys were expecting a bunker scene wherein he and Melanoma poison the dog and take considerably more dramatic steps rather than grudgingly consent to the communist victory. But they didn't get that. He just flew off to Mara Lago....that's the bunker for now..... to lick his wounds. He's going to have a rough few months and I think it will get worse before it gets better for him. Even the city of Mara Lago is fighting his presence. It sucks to be him today.
It's only fair. I can see him with a future on drive time radio and of course another reality TV show but as was mentioned, the RE business just got a lot tougher for him. And then there will be the courts. You will want to watch the Senate proceedings but if you don't, I will try to report them with my completely unbiased eye from here. I hope the trial doesn't drag on for a lot of reasons. Finally, it should not go unmentioned that Rupert has blood on his hands too but they make a pair so a media future is in the offing. Trump's always been Rupert's boy. He was useful.
Better though, things are looking up and that is so nice. Biden has a very difficult road ahead but today was a tonic.
Speaking of roads, related automotive content:
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Some good news from DC for a change. The adults are now officially in charge. Biden took the oath 21 minutes ago. Goodbye Donald. May your next government funded housing include three meals a day, chipped beef or turkey all king on toast followed by a one hour exercise period in the yard.
America can now resume its place alongside the world's other democracies, a position abandoned for the last four years. Biden may be just the man for the job.
And how about Lady Gaga? Not an easy song to do well, but she crushed it.
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15 hours ago, Techyd said:
I thought the 'buck' of responsibility stops with the president, if it's possible to pardon yourself then where does that responsibility go? It can't be God!
It isn't good and no man should have such unrestricted power. I wonder if that will ever be addressed. That's a constitutional power which means it would require an amendment to alter the scope of the thing. Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition....or such a feckless and corrupted president. Big wake up call.
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5 hours ago, andydclements said:
I think that description is fair, but I don't think he would have been in any position to state facts to support the various cases, since to date nobody seems to have found any materially relevant cases of fraud (not say there was any , not saying there was none, just that if a few were found in each state it really isn't going to alter the result).
I now cannot think of Trump without thinking of a mix of Gollum and this (apologies to US members who may not be familiar with this series of films aka movies).
Not only did I see the movie, I read the books and can sing along with the anthem.
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5 hours ago, top-plumber said:
Take another look. Wasn’t my post smart arse... 🖕
apology accepted...
Sorry about that. It sounded just like you and from here it's hard to see much difference. Please forward my message to Barry if you'd be so kind as he said he won't be making any more contributions here. I'll be just as pleased to be corrected about Mandela from him if he can find some evidence. Now go back to your moaning chair, have a seat by the fire and a nice hot cuppa. With my ever so sincere apology of course.
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20 hours ago, EldonZ said:
One thing that most do not understand correctly, impeachment is not the end of the process but the beginning. We have had other Presidents impeached but not found guilty by the Senate. Either the President resigned or the Senate did not convict.
As long as the impeachment is approved by the House before the President leave office, he can still be convicted after his term is up. He cannot be removed from office but he can be stopped from running or holding another federally elected position.
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EldonI believe he can be kept from office if he is convicted in the Senate, where the trial is actually heard. The impeachment (as I understand it) is the formal declaration and levying of the charges. I'm unclear if that alone keeps him from running for office in the future. Open to correction as always, of course.
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21 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:
By the time this gets to the Senate it will be controlled by the Democrats so the chances of succesful impeachment rise.
That's true in that the Senate Majority Leader (Chuck Schumer) will be in charge of the procedures but unfortunately, the Senate requires a 2/3 vote to convict. A simple majority won't do. If that were the case (simple majority) there would be no question that he would be convicted. Since the Senate is split 50/50, the Republican party will be required to provide 17 votes to convict. Are there 17 honest Republicans in the Senate who will openly consider the evidence and actions that lead up to the riots and sedition in Washington? That's far from clear.
Hey plumber, ever find any proof of Mandela being a murderer? I remain open to such if you have it. If you don't, your last contribution to this thread is received as good news and an indication that Mandela isn't the monster you have made him out to be.
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1 hour ago, EldonZ said:
Impeachment has no teeth, it's like being indited for a crime and a trial is held. Only if the Senate convicts him are there any repercussions. If he is convicted in the Senate then he will not be able to hold any federal elected government office. I'm not sure about state offices.
The big debate is if he self pardons himself, it sets up the legal challenge if a self-pardon is constitutionally legal. Also, if a person that is pardoned excepts the pardon, they are admitting guilt. This also requires that the person then answer all questions asked surrounding the pardon. If they do not, they are then guilty, again, of obstruction.
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EldonEldon's post gets it correctly. Neal's question is answered in Eldon's post, but to address it clearly, the law regarding the value of presidential self pardons is untested or at least unclear as to what protection Trump obtains if he pardons himself. So that remains to be seen. As mentioned, anyone receiving a pardon is obliged to answer all questions pertaining to the issues and connected issues without the protection of the fifth amendment. The penalties for lying in this way are severe. However, if someone other than the president himself is pardoned for a specific crime, it really doesn't matter what corroborating evidence is uncovered. A presidential pardon is essentially absolute. One presumes the same would hold true if his self pardon was judged as legally binding. He would escape the consequences regardless of any crime regardless of its severity. He would still be liable for crimes committed before he was president, and he would still be open to actions against him by the states. But he would be immune from prosecution by Federal authorities. Barr's justice department (Well, Trump's actually) interpreted the law to be that Trump could not be charged in court while he was still president. This meant that he was immune from the usual liabilities that any citizen would face during his term as president. That time is soon to pass, and he becomes liable for all of it. They say he's considering the broadest range of pardons ever to include family and friends, and himself. This huge blanket of pardons, should it be attempted by Trump will surely be tested in court but as mentioned, where it ends is unclear. However, the presidential power to pardon is extremely broad, almost unlimited really, so how it will all turn out is an interesting question.
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I don't think he did. We've been in touch outside The Lotus Forums as I follow him on LT and I have not heard any news about making this swap. He does have a KomoTec tune so the power part of the equation has been uprated on his car.
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^I had a dense aunt. She's not with us anymore and even though I, my sister and all my cousins weren't fond of her, the funeral was very sad. I found out that we all really wanted to like her but each had trouble with her in different ways. Even her kids felt that way. That was something I didn't know until we all talked about it. I thought I was the only one that had a problem with her. But as I said, she was thick and never got the point and always argued about the littlest things. Like just picking at the turnips in the margins of the plate instead of digging into the roast. But I digress.
Mandela is more complicated. He had to struggle under apartheid., a legal, organized system of oppression. Mandela and de Klerk of course shared the Novel Peace Prize, which gives him some street cred, I'd think.
I can forgive a person who renounces violence and works for peaceful resolution but I'm not sure what there is to forgive Mandela for given the brutality of apartheid. He himself said many times that he was far from perfect and I've no doubt that's true. I hope he was able to forgive himself. My forgiveness doesn't matter anymore if it ever did. Neither does yours, actually! I understand Gandhi and King had their own issues. I forgive them too!
Apartheid really was a nasty business and made for nasty business from the oppressed as well as the oppressor. That kind of situation always does. It ruins the victims and the masters alike. Now, I don't see where he has been accused of murder or been convicted for it. Perhaps I missed that and you can provide me with a link to the conviction. I'd be abashed about that but Mandela is a good example of change I can applaud. Maybe you would have preferred Desmond Tutu. He's less controversial, so edit my list. I don't mind and I don't need be right about Mandela to be right elsewhere and for you to be wrong about everything else.
But we're just talking and laughing, right?
*This post has been edited and here is the final edit. I just got my fifth dot! I gained two dots almost entirely due to this thread! I am proud to be a more dotted member here! Thank you admin, or algorithm or whoever.
**What do we call them, actually? Dots? Points? Globules? I assume they monitor activity? Or am I now a commissioned officer? Anyway, I have five of them now. I feel like I belong.
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Look, fellas. All rioting sucks. Criminals should be punished. I don't know how Brits feel about Gandhi, Mandela or MLK, but all of them espoused non violence (not against protesting, just counter violence). So you didn't find me in any of those crowds and you won't find me saying other than punish Antifa looters and rioters wherever they are guilty. If anybody has a grievance and they want to air it publicly, feel free, just don't enter my house and break my stereo or crash my storefront. Say your piece and move along. And same same for this Trump mob. There is one caveat on the Trump mob. This mob includes our former president. Our president. And his lawyer, "Trial by Combat Rudy."
So go after the looters, rioters and vandals on any side you find them and leave me to vote and believe it when I do. I won't even bother to expound on false equivalency here, what aboutism or the miserable situation regarding institutionalized racism. It's a thing, buds. If you're opposed to street violence welcome to my world but if you think it's justified sometimes and not others, you have a problem. You can talk to the hand!
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Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMpTHLJXbw&bpctr=1610392591
Here's another one for you, a real American radical.
Getting deposit back
in Emira Chat
Posted · Edited by Loquacious Lew
Bibs, check your PMs. Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. We've been traveling (family business) and I've been a bit at loose ends.