Any DMC-12 owners on here?

[markt]

I''ve been looking quite seriously at a Delorean DMC12 for a while - and now that my son has started to develop an interest in what I'm tinkering with in the garage, is of the opinion that there's nothing's cooler than gulling doors. (and an easy pitch to the Mrs  ) I never really had an appreciation for them until recently, and that's inspite of growing up near the factory in Dunmurry in the early 80's. Should be part of my cultural heritage! Further investigation shows that condition varies enormously, like the Esprit, they're inexpensive for what they are, have comedy build quality, but unlike the Esprit, have terrible handling and woeful performance.

Parts and spares seem easy enough to get hold of from the states, and I'm sure performance issues (and ride height) can be addressed. And before anyone mentions it, no. The world has enough BTTF clones. 

I have an ''84 Turbo that I have no intention of parting with, and looking to scratch an interesting but obtainable itch. I'm curious if there are any 80's Esprit owners on here who have any ownership experiences or thoughts on living with a Delorean they can share?

Cheers

[Gis]

DMCs are cool. I agree. Wouldn’t mind having one to complement the mighty TE. They’re unobtainium where I live, think there is only one in town, locked away somewhere. @krytensmeghead Might shed some light, he’s located kinda close to you Mark.

[Bazza 907]

I think Chris @internets is your man. 

My Esprit was compared to one a few years ago. http://www.lotusespritworld.com/ERoadtests/ClassicCars_Apr11.html

[Mightymetro]

@Blackngolds3turbo is really into his Deloreans too I believe  

[silverfrost]

You can still purchase them brand new from the states,  a fellow purchased all the factory spares stock when it shut and builds them to order.

As you say they are much like the Esprit, well cared ones demand strong money, but some are absolute sheds.

Renault engine is said to  be asmatic lol,   However i have seen a really nice one on the web that the chap converted to a vw vr6 2.9 engine,  extremely good engine and ticks all the boxes regarding noise,power and used lump prices and upgrades that are on offer,  only downside is a cast iron block,  however i am not sure if the renault engine was cast iron ?

Good luck with the search, they are extremely cool cars,   they even made them gold in colour towards the end of the production run to try and boost sales,  sadly it not work.

Also not sure if the film has come out yet, but this normally puts a spike in classic cars as everyone becomes nostalgic and starts looking for them on the web ! 

Gone in sixty seconds put a good few extra thousand on Mustang fastback prices etc imo.

[internets]

Prices have gone up in recent years, in the last 8 years in the UK they have basically doubled in price  so you are looking around £30k in the UK for a good running example with MOT etc, US prices are on the increase too and not much different these days. Build quality is no difference to the Esprit of the time which is no surprise as many of the same people worked on both! As you say the engine is under powered but pretty bullet proof although buying a car that has sat for a while can be problematic as the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel system do not like not being used. A sorted DeLorean is a great GT car and be used to getting attention when you stop for fuel etc!

Biggest things to look out for:

• Frame rot, especially front frame extension and below brake / clutch master which can leak fluid. Don't be afraid to poke at the frame as sometimes the  grey epoxy looks great but the metal underneath has long rotted away.
• Electrical problems mostly with fuses for headlights, cooling fans and fuel pump melting, everything needs to be tip top and any additional current drain, mostly through resistance building up and loose crimps, can cause problems.
• Roof boxes rotting / coming away, this is a fairly recent thing but after 30 plus years the roof boxes are starting to lift which could cause the torsion bars to break, which help the door go up along with the strut, and one side is very difficult (and expensive)  to get hold of currently!
• Cooling system, original coolant bottle was plastic and do crack but most been replaced with Stainless ones also the cooling fan switches sometimes stop working, if the engine overheats its not good obviously.

But like most cars its down to maintenance and good previous owners! Parts are plentiful and mostly available, many parts have been remade in recent years by a vendor in Holland. I know there are a few owners in NZ also vin 502 is in New Zealand which is one of only a handful of cars the factory had converted into a twin turbo  - https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/vin-502

There is also another big event back at the factory in Dunmurry in May 2021 which has recently been announced, people travel from all over the world for this!. https://www.facebook.com/eurofestdelorean

Useful links

• https://www.deloreango.com/nz/ - Probably the best D parts vendor online, good availability, very fast delivery to any country and good prices to boot. Prices also listed in your local currency
• http://dmctalk.org/forum.php - The biggest online forum based in the US for help and advice
• http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/ - UK based forum
• https://www.dmcmidwest.com/ - IMHO the best DeLorean 'franchise' in the US for parts and cars. Strongly recommend Mike @ DMCMW (https://en-gb.facebook.com/deloreanmotorcompanymidwest/)
• https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/ - Mostly for project cars, supposedly good to deal with but have heard a few horror stories too.
• https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/awesterman/m.html?item=183855102174&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 - Andy Westerman in the UK imports cars and happy to help ship world wide, has a good reputation.
• https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/ - For stainless repairs Chris Nicholson is your man, he travels the globe fixing stainless, he was in Australia a few months back. He also does RHD conversions which you might need?

6 hours ago, Bazza 907 said:

My Esprit was compared to one a few years ago. http://www.lotusespritworld.com/ERoadtests/ClassicCars_Apr11.html

Ah yes the Hooper's factory RHD conversion, I know them and their car well. They are very long term owners.

2 hours ago, Mightymetro said:

@Blackngolds3turbo is really into his Deloreans too I believe

Yes Alex has rebuilt several, and has a project car waiting but as always he is far too busy working on customer cars ;) 

[internets]

1 hour ago, silverfrost said:

You can still purchase them brand new from the states,  a fellow purchased all the factory spares stock when it shut and builds them to order.

That is DMCH who currently are not making new DeLorean's, they were refurbishing them but only sell used cars currently, the new cars are still waiting on legislation being pushed through but its been years in the pipeline with nothing happening. Supposed to have modern V6 engines to meet regulations but otherwise the car will be largely as it was when new.

 

1 hour ago, silverfrost said:

Renault engine is said to  be asmatic lol,   However i have seen a really nice one on the web that the chap converted to a vw vr6 2.9 engine,  extremely good engine and ticks all the boxes regarding noise,power and used lump prices and upgrades that are on offer,  only downside is a cast iron block,  however i am not sure if the renault engine was cast iron ?

My favourite engine swap is the Lotus V8 Also a nice supra engine swap. Also a UK owners has done this very well .... link

Personally I prefer OEM but the PRV blocks used on the Delorean can be prone to block rot with age, much like the early Esprit engine, and is difficult to get replacements so longer term might not have much choice, as long as the brakes and suspension get upgrades too!

 

1 hour ago, silverfrost said:

Good luck with the search, they are extremely cool cars,   they even made them gold in colour towards the end of the production run to try and boost sales,  sadly it not work.

The American Express 24k gold plated cars were made in 1981 as a limited run promotion, they were $85k and you had to pay with your Amex card! Only 2 were ever made, out of the supposed 100 run, at the factory in Belfast, a 3rd was made out of the spare panels when the company closed and since a few owners have made their own. One of the cars is now at the Peterson Museum in LA and the other is at a museum in Reno, NV. Otherwise all other cars that left the factory were stainless, a few dealers and owners have of course since painted their cars, sometimes to hide accident damage! 

 

[krytensmeghead]

Hi Mark

Here's some inspiration,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V9b0MrvS_8

There's some info here about common faults.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqbDJX3RLIc

Mine cost $22,000 - not running and with panel damage.

All the panels and parts can be bought from US but expensive when including shipping and exchange rate.

Expect anything that isn't a stainless panel to be a sacrificial anode.

I had to weld plates in the chassis - the cross member under the engine is a fairly common problem. I got a laser cut plate for that.

The engine is ok. They have a bad rep from being strangled by US pollution laws. You can get the " stage 2 " stainless exhaust system which is much better.

It's rear engine so the gearbox selection is pretty limited if you want to do any sort of drive train conversion.

They're nearly all left hand drive so hard to see oncoming traffic when overtaking.

After replacing most of the parts mine owes me over $60,000 and I still haven't got the chassis back in it so in hind sight probably better to spend the money on a good one.

[internets]

@krytensmeghead did you buy all new panels from DMCH then? Must of cost a lot! Most of the US companies are not known for their shipping costs / timescales!

Just heard Chris Nicholson is going to be over in Australia, including Sydney, very shortly  if you need any further stainless work / re brush. Can find out more if interested.

There is also one of his RHD conversions up for sale it appears https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1113859

[krytensmeghead]

I only bought the 2 rear quarter panels as far as the stainless goes.

Yes got them from DMC.Houston

The other panels are ok.

Most of the work has been mechanical. A fair bit of the cost was labour including drilling out and tapping most of the bolts in the engine. Still have to do the exhaust studs.

Spent thousands on shipping and import taxes  - the exhaust system was a large box, then there's things like radiator and ac condenser, suspension, quarter panels, etc.

I haven't worked on it for ages. It came to a stand still after having engine issues with the Lotus and I couldn't decide whether I wanted another car with an old school engine or to do a swap in the Delorean.

I've pretty much decided to stick with the original engine now.

[internets]

Ah fair enough, love to see pictures 😀

yes the 7mm exhaust studs are a right PIA, I have done a few of them and have a method that mostly works well but most use heat and lots of it. Hopefully yours won’t be too bad.

I do recommend taking a look at www.deloreango.com. I know they ship many things to Australia regularly, including a brand new frame recently! They also have free shipping over a certain amount which helps.

i understand local owners have a Facebook group where they have organised Chris N and his itinerary.

[markt]

Thought there might have been a few knowledgable folk on here  What a great response- Thnaks so much.

I've been keeping an eye on US sales for a while, and would probably import from there when the time comes. Even though it would be left hand drive, it shouldn't be too much of an issue getting the car on the road over here. No dramas getting my Esprit complied and on the road last year. Will have another long chat with a mate in the trade before committing.

Thanks @internets ,  @krytensmeghead and @Bazza 907 for the info  links. Have spent a leisurely Sunday on the UK owners website. A lot more technical info on there and indepth restoration threads than DMC talk (which I am a member). Used to waiting and paying hilarious prices for shipping parts for the Esprit from US and UK, so no surprises there. Parts availability is better than I thought.

Restoration costs over here can get very expensive very quickly, so I'd be looking for something mechanically strong and cosmetically tidy and pay for a good''un upfront so I can enjoy it.

Back to some research and man-maths

[krytensmeghead]

22 hours ago, internets said:

yes the 7mm exhaust studs are a right PIA, I have done a few of them and have a method that mostly works well but most use heat and lots of it. Hopefully yours won’t be too bad

Thanks Chis, could you please share your method ?

[internets]

Basically drench the studs and nuts in WD40 / Plus gas for several days before hand then put a socket on each nut and put a reasonable pressure on the wrench / ratchet but not lots then using a small hammer keep tapping away on the socket body. Often you will find the nut comes out with the stud, depending how rusted the stud is. Important thing to remember is not too much pressure on the wrench. If the nut comes off leaving the stud in place then I used a 7mm roller type stud extractor. Being an odd size they cost the same as a whole set generally. I have got one of these (clicky) for the job!

Same applies to the stud extractor, keep some pressure on the wrench and tap away at the body of the socket. Often you have to be patient, some of the worse ones have taken 15 plus minutes of tapping! but in my experience 90% have come out. The engine end of the stud often looks brand new when the outside looks like its been under sea all its life

Nice work on the engine cradle part. D Go have various parts for the frame, and can make any part up needed up to a full frame if needed, they call that part the dog bone (clicky) 

Did you say you have brought a free flow exhaust? Which one did you go for? Again D go have any of the parts you might need like studs and sell kits, saves trying to work out what you might need DeLorean Go Exhaust parts

Out of interest where did your car come from? Enjoy a good frame off restoration so feel free to share any pictures

EDIT: Also forgot to mention when the stud / nut does start coming out still use plenty of WD40 and occasionally wind a thread of too back in and take your time  

 

[internets]

@markt any preference on manual / auto, grey / black interior, early or later vin?

From the sounds of things your looking to pay for a sorted car. If I was in your position, IMHO, I would drop Mike at DMCMW a message with your requirements and budget and I am sure he could find you a car and you know it will be right. You could try the eBay route, which maybe cheaper, but its always a gamble, especially when your on the other side of the world, looking for a sorted car. Feel free to PM me if you want my opinion, FWIW , on any cars you do consider. 

[markt]

I prefer the hinged petrol filler flap version, so that would make it an early model? (Considering it only had a two year production run). Manual, black interior and side skirts would be my ideal spec, but a well sorted car is more important than anything else. It's taken me years, with life getting in the way etc... to get a rough Esprit up to a standard where I can enjoy it. Thanks for the suggestion of getting in touch with DMCMW - When I make some progress on this, I'll take you up on your offer and will clutter up your inbox. - Now watch me go buy a tatty grey interior auto needing restoration, blind off eBay 

[internets]

Yes only the first 2,700 ish cars (so vin's ranging from 501 up to 3200 approx) should of had the gas flap which were mostly black interior (and manual) cars!  The later the car the better the fit and finish generally, there is a story that the first shipment of cars over to the US had to be totally stripped and rebuilt due to poor assembly in Belfast as the workforce were all new and effectively leaning on the job.

I understand the ground effect kits are NLA, DMC used to sell them so might be worth asking Mike if he knows of any but I think its highly unlikely. As I understand it Rob Grady (https://pjgrady.com/) owns the moulds now but unfortunately Rob isn't as active these days which is a shame as he is(was) a great vendor and the only original DeLorean dealer left! We have one owner in the UK with them, in fact he has just completed a frame off restoration.

This is his car as he brought it, shortly before he returned it to mostly stock just with the ground effect left.

 

[fjmuurling]

https://www.delorean.eu/nieuw/index.php

some more info

[krytensmeghead]

19 hours ago, internets said:

Did you say you have brought a free flow exhaust? Which one did you go for? Again D go have any of the parts you might need like studs and sell kits, saves trying to work out what you might need DeLorean Go Exhaust parts

Out of interest where did your car come from? Enjoy a good frame off restoration so feel free to share any pictures

The car came from Washington. US.

I got the stainless exhaust from DMC Houston https://store.delorean.com/p-10337-stage-i-exhaust-upgrade.aspx

I hadn't seen the Delorean Go site before this.

[williamtherebel]

Mark, there is a DeLorean on Craigslist (Bangor Maine U.S.A.) just listed. $20,000.00. https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/bangor-1981-dmc-delorean-dmc-12/6918322671.html

I have no connections. Just trying to help out a fellow petrolhead!

[markt]

Good info @internets Sounds like they rolled out quite a few prototypes, where the test drivers (I mean owners) where left to complete the development work. (Same would apply to a few other British sports car manufacturers at the time. Yes Lotus and TVR, I'm looking at you.) I'd imagine most of the bugs and build quality issues would be sorted on the surviving early cars by now. Too bad that ground effects kit was an option and no longer available, but not a deal breaker. I do love the sheer 80's ness of my Turbo's side skirts.

Good to see @krytensmeghead got a few more links to suppliers to get parts. Tried to have a look at that link @williamtherebel but has been taken down allready. Thanks anyway, curious to see what $20k would get - I expect a bit of a project.

[markt]

19 hours ago, internets said:

 

 

Keep the ride height, change the wheels back to original (or maybe even a set of Rotiform's in a decent offset), interior back to original black, remove side badge and done! That'll do me nicely

[internets]

@markt This is that car as of now!

The full restoration thread can be seen here 

[williamtherebel]

12 hours ago, markt said:

Good info @internets Sounds like they rolled out quite a few prototypes, where the test drivers (I mean owners) where left to complete the development work. (Same would apply to a few other British sports car manufacturers at the time. Yes Lotus and TVR, I'm looking at you.) I'd imagine most of the bugs and build quality issues would be sorted on the surviving early cars by now. Too bad that ground effects kit was an option and no longer available, but not a deal breaker. I do love the sheer 80's ness of my Turbo's side skirts.

Good to see @krytensmeghead got a few more links to suppliers to get parts. Tried to have a look at that link @williamtherebel but has been taken down allready. Thanks anyway, curious to see what $20k would get - I expect a bit of a project.

Wow, that was quick. It actually looked pretty decent. (Probably why its gone so soon!)

12 hours ago, markt said:

Good info @internets Sounds like they rolled out quite a few prototypes, where the test drivers (I mean owners) where left to complete the development work. (Same would apply to a few other British sports car manufacturers at the time. Yes Lotus and TVR, I'm looking at you.) I'd imagine most of the bugs and build quality issues would be sorted on the surviving early cars by now. Too bad that ground effects kit was an option and no longer available, but not a deal breaker. I do love the sheer 80's ness of my Turbo's side skirts.

Good to see @krytensmeghead got a few more links to suppliers to get parts. Tried to have a look at that link @williamtherebel but has been taken down allready. Thanks anyway, curious to see what $20k would get - I expect a bit of a project.

 

4 minutes ago, williamtherebel said:

Wow, that was quick. It actually looked pretty decent. (Probably why its gone so soon!)

Just found the original advert. Its still on the internet so here it is for your info. https://barnfinds.com/7k-original-miles-1981-delorean/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter+(Daily)

[markt]

18 hours ago, internets said:

@markt This is that car as of now!

The full restoration thread can be seen here 

Looking lovely   I read that thread on the weekend. The state of the frame   Absolutely shocking! Was beyond saving in my opinion - hope, sheer determination (and some serious welding skills) were the only things that brought that back. I'd have been looking at a replacement frame - no doubt about it. Thanks for that barnfinds link @williamtherebel Looked pretty good for the money, although would need full recommissioning. Reading the comments section, sounds like a dealer snapped it up to turn a profit. Can't be too many 7000 mile DMC's about, will be keeping an eye out.