No power getting to starter

[Guest glyn.harper]

Hello all..

Got a minor (I reckon) technical problem. After working perfectly a couple of days back, my starter motor is now not working.

It's a new starter, so it's not that, and I've traced it back thus far that the red/white wire that energises the starter solenoid is not getting power.

Any idea what would cause this, or where to start looking?

I only have the 1 relay on mine, relay J. (haven't checked this).

Is there anything else that may have happened, rather than just replace the relay and hope for the best?

My Esprit is a 1988 Esprit Turbo.. but with engine management from Emerald, fuel injection, chargecooler, water injection, adjustable boost, BOV, etc..

Must make a note to contribute more to the forums!!

Cheers,

Glyn Harper.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Coil? What is in the starting 'path' / circuit?

Leads of course too?

[Guest glyn.harper]

Not the coil or leads, as it's distributorless now.

It's the ignition circuitry somewhere. The main red/white wire that goes to the starter motor that activates the starter motor is not getting power when I turn the key, so the car isn't even trying to turnover. it just clicks at me. (once)

It's possibly the relay I reckon, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar thing, or if there are any common causes of this problem.

[Bibs]

Sorry to interject with a probably useless suggestion but you don't have an immobiliser do you? Or perhaps a PO has fitted on which has been bypassed in the past but is now working again?

[Guest glyn.harper]

It's not a useless suggestion at all, as I do indeed have an immobiliser. When 'on' though, it normally stops the ignition going on at all, so the dash doesn't light up like a christmas tree like it does when the immoiliser is 'off'.

It could be that the immoiliser is half broken.. kind of..

I'll have to meter it all back to the ignition switch I guess.

Bugger.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I had a similar problem of 'nothing at all' when a small, insignificant looking wire fell off my alternator!

[Guest glyn.harper]

Good point actually. I will check for that!

Cheers..

[Jonathan]

Currently having this same problem.

The clicking and the red/white wire are infact the starter solenoid, this is moving the dog teeth into the final drive with the flywheel, however as above the starter isn't turning.

Bumps fine, all cables secure (the starter live wire is actually a spice so if this wasn't good other services would suffer as well) obviously the neutral is through the engine block.

Tried using betsy on it (soft hammer) to no avail, next try I guess is to bump it with position 3 engaged to see if spinning the motor will free it up or something.

Anyone know what the internals of the starter look like - photos ?

I'd assume there is a switch on the dog that tells whether the thing is forward to call the motor to turn ? Infact there must be because there are only 2 connections to the thing.....perhaps this is not making.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Jonathan

[Simon350S]

Have you guys checked that there is power on this red/white starter wire when the key is turned?

Have you checked for a good tight fit and cleaned off any corrosion off of the terminal and the connector?

You could take a flying lead directly from your battery positive and touch it on the starter tab where the red/white wire connects and the starter should turn, if not you know your starter is tossed.

**********Please keep clear of any potential moving parts if you are going to try the latter. I don't want to feel responsible for anybody loosing fingers/hands/arms, or anything else you may have dangling around!!!************

[Simon350S]

Ignore above Jon, you have obviously already ruled this problem out, if you have got a feed to your main starter live (very big cable, should be direct from the battery) then your starter is tossed. They are repairable but i dont have any diagrams.

Should be able to find something on the net somewhere. Or if you dont fancy doing it yourself, you can get them refurbed.

P.S. Not sure how the engine on the Esprits is earthed as i still dont have possesion of one. If you earth lead to your engine is broken, and it can happen as it happened to me, then it is possible that you will be experiencing what you state. All of the other engine components pick up a sufficient earth from other areas, such as throttle cables and other little things, this is enought for your ancilery components to run the engine, but wont allow enough current to pass to turn the engine over.

In this case run a jump lead from your battery earth direct to your engine block and this should sort it out.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Simon350S

[Paul C]

From the SE, but if it helps...

Relays that are the same:

1, radiator fans control

2, RPM/oil pressure tell tale

3, fuel pump

4, engine overheat tell tale

5, solenoid valve changeover

6, AC control

7, AC request

8, Starter motor

swap a couple about to quickle rule it out?

[Jonathan]

No it's not a relay - you pull the Starter Relay out and the solenoid on the starter motor does not energize (big clicking noise) put it back and and it clicks again.

I reakon the dog isn't engagin and calling for the motor to splin.

It's been like this before but always started on the 2nd-4th attempt, this time it's been sitting for so long due to the suspension cluster f*** that the things not been used....typical - cant believe how much hassle this suspension has caused me.

Gotta wait for the roads to quiet down before I try and bump start and energise the starter.

[Jonathan]

OK I have just fixed the problem B)

It was obvious the solenoud was throwing the dog forward becuase of the clunking but something was preventing the motor from turning - all the electrical connections were sound.

So I removed the Starter motor Solenoid (J) from the car and looped pin 87 to the battery live, this calls the solenoid on and pulls the dog forward permanetly all the time the wire is attached.

Next put the car into 3rd and rock it back and forth for a few feet.

I reakon this movement done one of 2 things:

1) Allowed the dog to mesh propperly and allow the motor to be called on (mine sounds awful so it's possible one of the teeth are broken preventing it meshing propperly)

2) More likely dislodged some shinola that had got into the motor itself, could even be some wear on the comutator or the brushes are chipped blah blah

Dunno until I take the thing off, I'll do a LEW page when I do.

4x times starts fine atm...

Get in the hole !

Edited August 27, 2005 by Jonathan

[Simon350S]

This is about the best diagram i can find on the net. Not sure how much help it'll be, depends on wether its a direct drive starter or a reduction geared starter.

This is obviously a direct starter as the cog is directly off of the end of the motor. It's a much larger diamter body than a reduction gear starter, potentially about 3"-3 1/2".

[Jonathan]

Thanks Simon - Looks pretty similar to the one on the car. The only detail I can find is that it is 'pre-engaged' which lead me onto trying to move the car with the solenoid activated.

I presume this means that 1 part of the mechanism is in permanent contact with the fly wheel and the other part of the coupling is on the motor which means no damage or mis-meshing can ever occur on the flywheel....makes sense to me that way.

Thanks for that - sure all will be revealed when I take the thing off, still dont know if my oil filter comes off or not as it is a 3rd party motor !

[Jonathan]

Just had another go at my car to see if it'll start.

Clicked with objection twice before starting....noticed how horrendous the noise coming from the motor is.....it sounds as if the gears are not connecting at all or a few of them are missing - it's certainly reluctant to start (always has been I guess).

The sound is similar to that if you goto position 3 when the engine is running, somethings wrong in there somewhere, hope it's not playing with my fly wheel - could do without having that out this year if I can help it.

PS my motor was fitted by Kelvdon Lotus incase there are any similarities.

[th4neuk]

Hi Glyn,

Out of interest mine has started with a similar problem. I had the plenum off to repaint it and since it has gone back I have had a problem similar to what you have described. I wonderered if it is one of the wire inthe circuit that has broken down. If I wiggle the loom under the plenum the starter then works ok??

Could it be as simple as a broken wire??

Cheers

[Simon350S]

Hi Glyn

Yours sounds like it could well be a loose/broken wire, probably the small one to the solenoid.

The others have already eliminated this as being the fault and are probably looking more at dirty/dislodged/worn brushes or sticking mechanisms. Should be all fairly straightforward to put right once the things off the car.

The only thing you would struggle to do is rewinding the motor if it's burnt out. Doesn't sound as if this is of any concern to you guys though.

[Jonathan]

For the record mine still starts....just.

Everytime I goto start it clicks 2-3 times on position 3 as I switch the key, then the thing will start but it sounds horrendous, alsmost as bas as when you try and start it with the engine already running.

As soon as I can I'll have the starter off (might be a few months though) and do an LEW page.

[Simon350S]

Good idea Jon

Would be helpfull to all especially with some good quality pics of a rebuild as it sounds like quite a few people are having problems.