Ok, I am writing this with a level of trepidation but I have had a positive response from ProAlloy regarding the charge cooler kits.

I am working to confirm their optimism and will provide more info soon. 

As a teaser they believe they could turn an order around in less than 6 weeks and there will be a discount for a group buy of 5 or more.

If there is any thread of interest left please let me know. 🤞

 

I for one am still very interested in a kit.

But after the poor show last time, I'm sure you can understand I'm very reluctant to put down a deposit without a very firm commitment from their side.

Edited to add: hats off to you Chris, for persevering all this time! 🎩

whats the price?

WOW well done Chris. How come the change of heart from pro Alloy. Yes. I would be  be interested

Hi All,

I have the following indicative pricing but I suspect it includes a few less items than were in the original kits, this is something I am seeking clarification on but Alex is out of the office this week so will have to wait for that. 

Per kit, these will be priced at - £3,133.53 + VAT. The kit price can be reduced by quantity orders, for example if we were to build 5 off kits, the pricing would be - £2934.57 per kit.

Please do not take these prices as anything more than a guide until the exact content of the kit this time around has been confirmed. 

As you can see there is a small discount for 5 kits, it may be more attractive if we can get to the original 10 or more, having that info ASAP from anyone reading this with an interest in buying would be very helpful.

Regarding the change of heart, I am not sure, I have been pushing on and off and leaning on their offer of sharing drawings if they didn't produce a kit. I don't mind what caused it I will just be hugely relieved to see kits built and be able to move on. 🙂 

cheers

-Chris

 

 

I'm in! If they can deliver before winter.

This would save me the headache of building my own (though I've already put a lot of effort in).

I'm in as well, subject to details and pricing of course.

Great, thanks. 

Sorry, still waiting for confirmation of what is and what isn't included in the prices quoted. 

I will update you when I learn more. 

I have had some more info, I will collate it and post an update over the weekend.

You're a hero Chris, for persevering with this!

If it works out in the end, you must let me offer you some Belgian beers. 😉 

1 minute ago, Escape said:

You're a hero Chris, for persevering with this!

If it works out in the end, you must let me offer you some Belgian beers. 😉 

I'll top that with some Rosé from the Provence!

 

For reference, per kit, these will be priced at - £3,133.53 + VAT (£3760.24 inc VAT) . The kit price can be reduced by quantity orders, for example if we were to build 5 off kits, the pricing would be - £2934.57 + VAT (£3,521.48 inc VAT) per kit.

OK, this is the extra info I received.

Please see below the list of components that will be included in the current proposed Kit.

• Pair of Pro Alloy Charge Cooler units with 165 x 95 x 200mm Internal cores
• Central Charge Cooler Coolant reservoir / Swirl pot
• Central dress-up Mounting bracket to Esprit Engine block
• Pair of 3mm thick load-bearing Charge Cooler mounting brackets
• Custom Engine Coolant reservoir to allow Space for O/S Charge cooler unit including Level sensor flange
• Lower mounting link bracket for Charge Cooler stability and Centre Reservoir
• Aluminium hand-formed link pipes to marry-up the Charge Cooler units to the Centre Reservoir
• 2x Link ‘Y’ Style Aluminium pipes to join Charge Cooler units to 1 inlet & 1 Outlet
• Silicones joiners to join Centre Reservoir Tank to Charge Cooler units

The BOV’s used previous were Tial Q Blow off Valves, these retail for - £233.91 each, Plus VAT

Parts left to acquire for members are the following:

• Line/s to run coolant from front to Charge Cooler link pipes ( we can supply 19mm rubber hosing if required as per each order who is happy to go this route )
• Coolant pump ( again, we can supply but some users may have a preference or wish to run a different sized pump )
• Pre Rad unit
• Boost pipes modified to suit

The Pre rad was used when building the initial custom system was to the following specifications below. We chose to not include this in the kit due to variations at the front-end assembly on the Esprit. But we can always supply these units to those who are able to pre-check fitment and ensure compatibility. For those with a different setup, we can always work to patterns build and/or drawings of their requirements.

Overall width 910mm
Overall height 265mm
Overall thickness 50mm

Assembly – Fitment use by 2x M6 mount points on the top side of the pre-rad unit, utilising the front 2x female bosses on the OEM Radiator unit. The lower section of the pre-rad is secured utilising the 2x machined bosses as landing feet on the side of the front crash structure cowling, secured by drilling 2x holes to pass through the bolt into the bosses. The Inlet and outlet pipes are 2x 19mm O.D pipes, both are front facing to make the plumbing easier.

Pricing for this unit is - £689.13 + VAT

As for the water pump, the unit we would advise in using on this system, would be 1x BOSCH 0 392 022 002 which is the larger pump option of two variations, we can provide this for - £159.00 + VAT
Pre-rad to charge cooler hosing (19mm I.D) can also be provided but not included in the kit as standard for those who may have a plan to run hard lines if they wish.

The hosing is - £7.20 per metre + VAT

As you will see in the images as well, there is a A/C unit that can also be provided which we are able to squeeze into the middle stack of the Main Water Radiator and Pre-Rad unit, utilising a 16mm deep core.

Pricing for this unit is - £453.90 + VAT

 

Now the Bosch pump is available from Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BHKX9PA/ref=sw_img_1?smid=A3I03PBSQNZ9CE&psc=1) for £128

I mocked up a pre-rad with my standard radiator and non standard (but almost exactly the same dimensions) air-con condensers using the 910x265x50 dimensions and it doesn't fit. 
The top edge fouls on the floor before the fibreglass cradle is fully seated (about 15mm still to go, see second photo), this view is from the front of the car.
You can also see I've cut a small wedge in the back top corner to clear the rearmost aircon hose.

This is from the passenger side...

So the pre-rad needs to be much thinner or not as tall which begs the question, what is more efficient, greater volume or greater surface area.

At a guess reducing the dimensions to either 910x200x50 or 910x250x30 might both fit (the first option has the better chance I think) but which is better from a cooling perspective and are either big enough?
Ignoring the fluid volume and simply looking at the 'box' volume for a quick comparison.
910x200x50 = 9.1 Litres and 0.18m2
910x250x30 = 6.8 Litres and 0.23m2 

Anyone able to provide any insight in this direction?

cheers

-Chris

 

 

I would say surface area is more important.

The radiator seems a bit oversized when I compare it to the one I have in the Exige (which also has 460hp, though supercharged). That one is about 720mm X 110mm.

 

Then the final missing piece of the costing puzzle is the modification of the turbo inlet pipes.
(I'm also not sure if the kit will come powder coated or not, its not been mentioned recently)

cheers

-Chris

 

 

 

Excellent work Chris! So glad to read this could happen after all. I'm gonna try and use it as momentum to resurrect my V8 project. 😉 

I'm not worried about the chargecooler rad or pipework, but the modified turbo inlet pipes are of course critical.

Filip

11 hours ago, TBD said:

I would say surface area is more important.

The radiator seems a bit oversized when I compare it to the one I have in the Exige (which also has 460hp, though supercharged). That one is about 720mm X 110mm.

I was thinking about this overnight and due to the way radiators are constructed with cooling fins running front to back along each waterway, the 'box' volume has huge impact on surface area too. I think I need to find an online calculator for this kind of thing. 🤔

Not sure if this is any help, but assuming the V8 is the same at the front as the 4-cyl, at the time the original condensers were unavailable, I found replacements which came from Autoersazteile P/N UV5005. Pro-Alloy built me the charge cooler rad, which was apparently a more efficient unit than the original. I also agree that surface area is key to efficiency. Increasing volume increases weight, too.

1 hour ago, cweeden said:

I was thinking about this overnight and due to the way radiators are constructed with cooling fins running front to back along each waterway, the 'box' volume has huge impact on surface area too. I think I need to find an online calculator for this kind of thing. 🤔

The air gets warmer as it traverses the fins, so given the choice between surface and depth always go with surface area.

But as I said, it seems a bit oversized when looking at the charge coolers themselves.

As always, it's a compromise. You need enough surface area for contact with cold air and you want enough depth/volume to ensure there is enough heat transfer. For our purposes, it probably wont matter much either way, as long as the radiator is of a decent design and construction. A chargecooler does need to operate with a very small temperature difference, as you want the intake air as close to ambient temperature as possible. That means the radiator needs to be more efficient than the one for engine coolant, where you have a much bigger temperature difference to help heat transfer. Also the reason it needs to be placed in front of the main rad.

Well I'm in.👍

Rad can be sorted at any point the hard bit is the other stuff, might be worth getting moving before they go off the boil.

I guess the still have the design for the charge pipes, I wonder why this modification wasn't included??

Still chasing them for a plan and costs for the charge pipes, unfortunately every questions takes days/weeks to get a response. 

6 minutes ago, cweeden said:

Still chasing them for a plan and costs for the charge pipes, unfortunately every questions takes days/weeks to get a response. 

Thanks for your perseverence on this!

Hi All,

I think we are there (ignoring the pre-rad details), I had the following information from ProAlloy.

"Thank you for your patience on this, we have finalised the pricing on the fabrication and modifications required to the OE charge pipes, this does require quite the bit of work. The fitment is tricky and tight. The pipework needs to curve around components in such a way that quite the amount of aluminium elbows are cut and used in the assembly of the pipework to achieve the correct fitment.

The Pipework consists of the following:
2x Hot Side Boost Pipes, Utilizing 7 aluminium bends in total, 1x Sensor boss with 19mm take-off ( vacuum pipe )
2x Cold-Side re-worked/Boost Pipes, Tight! 90 Degree cast elbow used from both OE pipework with 60mm inlets welded
3x straight silicone joiners, 1x 90 degree silicone, jubilees to suit

Our suggestion would be that the first set is completed and either a site visit and/or visit you when installing and check fitment on a second vehicle prior to completing an entire batch, just to ensure fitment prior to creating a while batch of units! Due to the pipework’s multiple changes in angles and degrees of bend required for fitment, we’d prefer to do another final check on a different Lotus, just in case.

We can supply the Charge Cooler kit with the boost pipes included and dilute the setup cost over the production of the entire kit - Lotus Esprit Twin Charge Cooler Kit - Engine Bay components with Boost Pipes and OE Modified Pipework including Kit parts = £3,510.09+ VAT."

 

Regarding the pre-rad they proposed a slightly smaller rad but I think it is still a fraction too big, I'd be interested if anyone else has an opinion. I think this would make the current air con hose routing impossible. 

"Many thanks for the feedback and quick fitment checks of the dimensions of the Pre-Rad. Over the past few weeks we have managed to luckily confirm a second option on Pre-Rad configuration, which I have spec’d below for you(see attached) which is a one-off unit we built some time ago now, we managed to confirm all the historical dimensions from the unit for reproduction, we are now finalising a CAD version of this data.

Overall Dimensions length x height x depth
910 x 210 X 55mm

Core size dimensions
870 x 208 x 40mm Single row. 7mm Fin height with 14 FPI

Underside mounting Point: 2x Billet mounting feet, 212mm inboard from overall 910mm.
N/S of unit point: flush with rear face of Pre-Rad unit, centre of hole 34mm down from top face, 14mm extended.
O/S of unit point: 30mm back from rear face of Pre-Rad unit
Overall centres: 964mm
19mm inlet and outlet, single pass configuration

Price for Pre-Rad unit - £673.91 + VAT"

 

Is anyone who is planning on ordering a kit in a position to help with the test fit of the turbo inlet pipes?
My engine is on the bench and not completely built yet so not a good candidate unfortunately.

cheers

-Chris