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track day essentials??


Sotirios

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  • Gold FFM

Hello all,

just wanting peoples opinions based on personal experiences with the 410/430 exige series for track day goodies worthy of upgrade benefits.....

I've had my 410 exige for going on 4 years now from new and still love it and am about to do some track work with it. These will be 20min long sessions.

Up until now i have only done 1 hill climb event(6 x 2 min runs), some adelaide rallys in australia which have 30 stages of anywhere from 1 to 8min runs through the hills at spirited speeds(not flat stick), and 1 track day run of the old Adelaide Grand Prix circuit for 3 days. The adelaide grand prix runs were about 8 to 10 min runs x 8  times. So as you can see, all the motorsport events have been mostly short and sharp.

The track days upcoming will be along the lines of 20 minute sessions at quite spirited levels with heavy acceleration and braking.

My question to those out there is, what upgrades can i do that will actually be beneficial, and noticeable in terms of peformance, reliability and handling. 

So far i have done the following:

- cup 430 adjustable wing

- advan AO50 semi slicks

- harness bar and 6point harnesses.

what do you all think is worth doing and what mods are a waste of time????

any help much appreciated

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My personal opinion is that you barely need to modify anything on a 410/430 for track use. 

I’ve probably done around 30 track days in mine now. 

The only mechanical type ‘modification’ I’ve done is different brake pads and higher spec brake fluid. But even then, the OEM setup coped better than any standard car I’ve owned. I just found the pads lacked bite and wore down reasonably quickly. 

Not a modification, but it’s always worth getting the alignment checked and tweaked. Mine has standard rear settings, but more camber on the front and a bit of toe out for improved turn in.

I would also recommended changing the gearbox oil for something a grade higher to keep the change feeling nicer when it gets hot. 

 

 

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  • Gold FFM

yes i noticed the gearchange gets a bit sticky after 7 or so laps on the adelaide short sprint grand prix circuit and the gearbox sounded a bit whiny when hot which freaked me out. ill definately change brake fluid and trans fluid and maybe the pads. What pads did u use? stock is ferodo 2500 right? would the ferodo 3000 offer better performance or something different altogether? 

im browsing websites online, are the following worth it>>

- jubu upgrade thermostats, alternator pullys, belt pullys worth it?

- rear tow link kit?

- front camber arms upgrade for 410? do they exist? what does 410 run stock for front camber?

- is it worth lowering the car at the front and rear on 410 with 3way nitrons as it sits fairly high stock at the rear. for track work

- jubu front and rear braking cooling kits/guides? 

- whats an ideal sweet spot for front camber?>

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Pad wise, I use Pagid RS29. They're my go to after trying them in various cars over the years. I like them because they have a nice amount of bite, but not too much. The wear rate is good, and they're very kind to discs as far as race pads go. Mine have also always been silent.

The other stuff I'm not quite as sure about...

Thermostat - I've never really quite understood this. If the car is getting hot then the OEM thermostat will be fully open. So unless the JUBU one somehow opens further, it would make the car run cooler for a while, but have no effect on ultimate cooling capacity. That's determined by the radiators and system volume in my mind.

As standard the Exige doesn't run much camber on the front. People who max it out on standard suspension seem to get around 1.5 degrees, maybe 1.75. I run mine at 1.5 but it is a mixed use car between road and track. Some people have parts  machined to get more camber.

Lowering - I've heard people say that lowering it further doesn't actually improve the handling. And that the reason it's high at the rear is to to give some rake and help with understeer. 

Brake cooling - With decent fluid and Pagid RS29's my brakes have always been fade free all day long. (But I do live in the UK, not Australia!)

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  • Gold FFM

So far, I would agree with Paul.  Get the ride height and suspension alignment checked, and add a bit more if it is set to standard.  Use more temperature tolerant fluids.

Then just spend your money on fuel and tyres, and a decent maintenance schedule.  If you start finding gaps in the car, and/or wearing things out, then look at potential changes.

Plenty of these cars out there getting used (not abused) and are perfectly happy.  20 minutes in the hour sounds good in terms of stress on the car.  Track days are often harder on the car than race meet - you might do 3 lots of 20 minutes in a day racing, people who do 40 minutes in the hour at a track day are probably doing 4 hours of hard driving.

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  • Gold FFM

Thanks for replies guys. You are both right in that to use the car and then see where gaps or problems appear and upgrade from there. The 410/430 series do have many factory upgrades over the previous cars like gearbox coolers etc so they are great out of the box.

The one problem i did find was the transmission felt a little sticky and i could hear gearbox whine at the end of a 10 to 15 min hard session and when driving back to pits it sounded like bad gearbox whine. After cooling it down it went away so maybe i do need to upgrade fluids.

 

What is the best proven oils for 

Engine?

Gearbox?

Diff?

Brakes? 

 

I did invest in some awesome yokohama A050 semi slicks on my last meet and only have 2 days use on them and they were fantastic compared to pilot sport cup 2s. Started at 24psi and once they reach 31psi they are so confidence inspiring. But expensive.

 

If my clutch wears out. Does the 410 and 430 already come standard with lightened flywheel? Whats the best aftermarket clutch for exige for quicker revving? Or do lightweight flywheels cause issues?. I know the clutch disc is uprated from the previous exiges. 

Does anyone have a good geometry setup front n rear thats not to much more aggressive than stock i can use? If u put 1 degree extra camber up front, and leave rear stock does this unbalance car or create less understeer. I find on the limit it wants to understeer more than oversteer

 

If i put nitron 3 ways back to factory setup and go 1 click up for everything, low and high speed compression and 1 click up for rebound, is this a good way of testing the car to see if it handles better? Because im thinking, changing only some aspects of suspension would make trial and error long winded affair and may not achieve anytbing.

Do ppl change their sway bar settings?

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Engine Oil I just stick with standard. The car basically doesn't use any oil and it always seems to be incredibly clean.

Gearbox - I use Motul Gear 300 75W90

Brake fluid - I personally use Castrol SRF now, but it could be argued it's overkill. But it's only an extra £40 a year to have over the other options, and I know I don't need to worry about boiling it even when it's a bit older (great wet boiling point). Motul RBF660 is also a popular choice.

My alignment as done by @DH2 at Hangar111 is:

Front --- Camber -1°30' degrees, Total Toe out -0.08°

Rear --- Camber 2°15', Total Toe in 0°40'

This is basically leaving the rear stock and giving the front more grip. This has made the car much nicer to drive and it now feel more neutral with less understeer.

I've never actually played with my sway bar settings, or read much from people who have. 

As regards to the Nitron settings, I ended up copying the settings from another member on here. I basically just put those on whenever I get to the track. I often intend to play around but never seem to get around to it. 

 

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  • Gold FFM
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Paul_D said:

Engine Oil I just stick with standard. The car basically doesn't use any oil and it always seems to be incredibly clean.

Gearbox - I use Motul Gear 300 75W90

Brake fluid - I personally use Castrol SRF now, but it could be argued it's overkill. But it's only an extra £40 a year to have over the other options, and I know I don't need to worry about boiling it even when it's a bit older (great wet boiling point). Motul RBF660 is also a popular choice.

My alignment as done by @DH2 at Hangar111 is:

Front --- Camber -1°30' degrees, Total Toe out -0.08°

Rear --- Camber 2°15', Total Toe in 0°40'

This is basically leaving the rear stock and giving the front more grip. This has made the car much nicer to drive and it now feel more neutral with less understeer.

I've never actually played with my sway bar settings, or read much from people who have. 

As regards to the Nitron settings, I ended up copying the settings from another member on here. I basically just put those on whenever I get to the track. I often intend to play around but never seem to get around to it. 

 

Im taking car in soon for some prepwork and ill ask about doing that alignment. What is stock front camber if anyone knows off top of their head as i cant be bothered going to garage to get out the manual lol. 

What was the setting for suspension that u copied off of here do u remember?

Does increasing horespower to 475-500 using the stock charge cooled setup and supercharger but modifying exhaust and tune affect the cars awesome ecu software for handling? One thing i love about the exige is its brain if u go in too hot into a corner.....seems to save u everytime. Does extra horsepower mess with lotus DPM?

Did u need to modify, cut, shave or remove anything to go from stock 0.8 front camber to 1.3?

Edited by Sotirios
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Stock front settings for the various models

Screenshot-2024-08-14-141417.jpg

 

My Nitron settings for track are (note that these are clicks from full hard)

Front: Rebound  6, HS Comp 8, LS Comp 4

Rear: Rebound 4. HS Comp  4, LS Comp 8

Some of those seem a bit counter-intuitive, but they seem to work. 

 

I'm not sure about increasing power affecting the stability control systems, but I wouldn't have thought so to any significant amount.

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  • Gold FFM
1 hour ago, Sotirios said:

Im taking car in soon for some prepwork and ill ask about doing that alignment. What is stock front camber if anyone knows off top of their head as i cant be bothered going to garage to get out the manual lol. 

What was the setting for suspension that u copied off of here do u remember?

Does increasing horespower to 475-500 using the stock charge cooled setup and supercharger but modifying exhaust and tune affect the cars awesome ecu software for handling? One thing i love about the exige is its brain if u go in too hot into a corner.....seems to save u everytime. Does extra horsepower mess with lotus DPM?

Did u need to modify, cut, shave or remove anything to go from stock 0.8 front camber to 1.3?

The factory Nitron setup is on the stiff side, you can compensate to an extent using your high and low speed compression settings.  On a smooth surface its less noticable (eyeball vibration, teeth falling out).

Each car is different in terms of the front camber shims (that is the point of having them), but you can usually get to around 1.5 degrees before you have to do machining.

Extra horsepower does not upset the Lotus DPM, other than you arrive everywhere faster!  Your right foot is in control.

Dave

 

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4 hours ago, Sotirios said:

HP upgrade for the 410/420/430 has been difficult to achieve reliably,

Getting rid of the awful stock manifold/cats and Airbox is a must however it throws endless engine management issues without an ECU upgrade, which is the issue.

Few folks have mastered it on the 400 Exiges 

If done correctly there is no issue with the DPM with the extra power

There are plenty of UK 410 owners who run increased power 

Edited by Tex
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  • Gold FFM

yes, im going to use SSC in australia who are very good experts with lotus and have cracked the ecu reIiably with horsepower upgrades. They are very fussy with their tunes, fopr example they wont tune your car with their ecu upgrades using another companys exhausts as it throws out their specific tunes. Thats a good sign. 

1.5 degrees of camber is good for a street/ track car id say, it would improve turn in that little bit nicer so ill go for that i reckon not having to worry about upgrades and use stock adjustment. I dont know if any of you remember the old Adelaide Grand Prix circuit in australia that was used for years before Melbourne stole it from us lol. Ill be using that track for upcoming track day, so what would you guys say, judging by the amount of turns and layout would be optimal suspension setup if u were to take a guess, remembering its a street circuit but most of the sections are fairly smooth tarmac. ill post a youtube vid of a porsche in hotlap from last year below

 

 

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11 hours ago, Sotirios said:

They are very fussy with their tunes, fopr example they wont tune your car with their ecu upgrades using another companys exhausts as it throws out their specific tunes. Thats a good sign. 

1. They want you to also buy their exhausts, it increases revenues, profits through product and labour hours.

2. That will because they are using their tunes as "stock" tunes, not custom for each car as otherwise they could modify the "tune" for the situation.

Just an opinion. Like all opinions, it's worthless. :) No intention to malign SSC which I have only ever heard good things about.

 

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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  • Gold FFM
2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

1. They want you to also buy their exhausts, it increases revenues, profits through product and labour hours.

2. That will because they are using their tunes as "stock" tunes, not custom for each car as otherwise they could modify the "tune" for the situation.

Indeed I would expect this to be the case.

You want a custom tune?  Get it to the dyno and get it mapped - price point will be a little different, but you pays yer money...

Dave

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  • Gold FFM
Posted (edited)

Yes, thats obvious but most companies do this. From what i hear theyve put a bit of R&D to get their tunes just right and their exhaust packages with tune are achieving 500hp of late on all cars they tune. Between 500 to 515hp they are seeing which is more than the komotec/jubu packages ive seen so it sounds promising. And they say its extremely reliable at the 500hp mark. Torque goes from 430nm stock to 530nm.

Oh and they do all this with a proper dyno tune so they do look at cars on an individual basis with tune to make sure its right. They dont sell the exhaust system with tune pack and ship it out.

Edited by Sotirios
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  • Gold FFM

You are pushing the gearbox hard at that point.  500nm is the notionally recognised sensible limit, which is why the KT/Jubu implementations are capped there.

Remember this gearbox is designed/used in Avensis diesel, Auris hybrid, etc.

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Just a full 2bular system and KT Airbox and an ECU tune

Just removing the very restrictive Toyota Cat Manifolds will probably get you to 450bhp And airbox possibly another 20 odd.

Judging by LOT days there are a lot of folks running 450bhp + but claiming standard 🤦🏻‍♂️

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  • Gold FFM

Can u put actermarket manifold/headers, y - pipe plus 200cel high flow cat and acternarket air filter in stock airbox and not tune it or will it run like a pig?

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I don’t believe anyone has been successful with that.

Stands to reason it will throw errors as ECU is set up for stock, however it can make allowances for just an Airbox but that’s pretty hit or miss 

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  • Gold FFM
11 hours ago, Sotirios said:

Can u put actermarket manifold/headers, y - pipe plus 200cel high flow cat and acternarket air filter in stock airbox and not tune it or will it run like a pig?

Either way you would be using up the fuel trims that the ECU already has for things like engine individuality, fuel quality, temperatures, etc.

The whole run it for 30 minutes and it will learn is nonsense - that's not how the ECU learning fuel trims works.

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40 minutes ago, DH2 said:

The whole run it for 30 minutes and it will learn is nonsense - that's not how the ECU learning fuel trims works.

So how does it work then?

When I added new 2bular headers and a 200cel cat to my Evora I was advised to drive it gently for 500 miles to allow the ECU to relearn. I did this, and 7 years later it has never once missed a beat.

God doesn't want me, and the Devil isn't finished with me yet.

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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