Thinking out loud.....

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Has anyone actually done this?

I don't *need* to at all... this is pretty much hypothetical but I am curious.

Does anyone know if it would entail anything more than obtaining a Stephens / Renault bellhousing and the Renault box itself?

Would there be chassis mounting issues and would they actually be that big a deal?

I'll try posting this on Yahoo too jic.

[Paul C]

Hi Robin,

No use i'm sure, but have read a few times on PH forum about US stevens cars with the Citroen/massarati 'box. So cross model works that way (though whether they had inboard brakes i don't know).

I betcha the guys that have fitted later engines in G-cars are all running around with renault boxes too...

Try it on the PH forum too maybe?

As i said, no use at all

[The_Del]

Having been down in the back of my car a few too many times I have done the mental calculations before on what would be needed.

Basically on a later G shape the rear end is similar with rear hoop etc I believe but suspension/brkes quiet different.

You would need in my estimation,

Gearbox, bellhousing of course.

Gear linkage and translator system at rear and also complete gearstick and selector system for cockpit to replace exisiting.

Stevens driveshafts, hubs, trailing arms, brakes, springs, dampners.

Not sure on the suspension top mounts that are part of rear hoop but think they are identical.

In short you need the complete rear end off a stevens model.

[Paul C]

...Stevens driveshafts, hubs, trailing arms, brakes, springs, dampners....

Mmmm...

The deep BBS wheels have a huge offset compared to the stevens types don't they?

Possibly add wheels to the list too?

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Blimey!!!

Thinking out loud is b100dy expensive!!

It would be a real breaker's yard job then really wouldn't it?!

Edited November 28, 2004 by evil_dr_fish

[richcamb]

Blimey!!!

Thinking out loud is b100dy expensive!!

It qould be a real breaker's yard job then really wouldn't it?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hiya Fishy

I can confirm that fitting a Renault box on a Giugiaro Turbo has been done

I have an Esprit article (Thoroughbred & Classic Cars, May 96) which features an 86 Turbo, which was originally a US spec car factory test car, converted back to UK spec, but with a Renault gearbox and outboard brakes. It was at Donington a few years back too, Reg no. D997 HNG.

Does that help?

Richard C

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

This is all very interesting and good to know.

As I said, it's purely academic but I have always had small plans in the back of my mind to add water injection in say a year or so.

This would only really be able to go as far as 250bhp-ish as all available advice doen't suggest the citroen gearbox could cope with any more.

(PS Nice avatar! I've never seen a pic of your G-Car before )

Edited November 28, 2004 by evil_dr_fish

[richcamb]

(PS Nice avatar! I've never seen a pic of your G-Car before )

There is a much better pic in the 'garage' :-)

Will add some more when I have scanned them.

All my best pics were taken years ago before I went digital.

Richard C

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

NICE

Just researched the split rim compomotives you mention in your garage too - they are NIIIIIICE! Where do they come from etc? ...and why weren't they on all our cars!

Are they the same dimensions / tyre sizes?

[richcamb]

Robin

The Compomotive Split Rims were fitted to all Essex Turbos and a few of the plain coloured ones after. They are the same size, but the offset on the rears are different to the BBS's by an inch. This requires shorter upper/lower links and different radius arms too. Also the wheels are 4 stud instead of 5 bolt fixing, so different hubs are required.

When they are all polished up and looking new they do look great, and I prefer them to the BBS's. Apparently the factory stopped using them due to sealing issues (not good when cornering hard), although I have seen these same model rims used on lesser formula single seaters, and touring cars of the same period without any apparent problems.

My set still need polishing/refurbishing so I attach a pic of someone elses which look better than mine (at the moment)

Richard

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Those are *stunning!*

[Guest Troy Halliday]

How about these bad boys

This is one of he presents I'm planning to buy myself as soon as poss!

Oh and so as not to be mean here is their website Splitrims.com

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

NICE! Whats the

[sivesprit]

Edited January 1, 2006 by sivesprit

[sivesprit]

Hi,

I am in the process of restoring my 1984 turbo esprit and am thinking about the possibility of swapping the engine with an S4 2.2L engine. I was wondering if anyone could help me with a few of my concerns:

1. would there be any mounting or space problems if I were to install the 4 cyclinder engine.

2. would there be any mounting or space problems if I were to install the 4 cyclinder engine together with the renault gearbox.

3. Could I use the existing citroen gearbox with the S4 engine just by changing the bell house should the need arise.

This is my very first lotus and am not too familiar with the differences between the different models and hence would be very much appreciaive if anyone would share their knowledge on this matter.

Thank you,

Siva

[f1karting]

I am in the process of fitting a UN1 to my S3T. I will use the S4 clutch, housing, and hydraulics.

I plan to retain inboard brakes, although not the originals. At the moment I have been considering 10x285mm full floating, non vented rotors with single piston 35mm calipers along with a separate hydraulic spot caliper for e-brake. E-brake will be actuated by cable via a remote hydraulic master.

The driveshafts will likely be mid-80s BMW 5-series (same as S3 only longer).

To make it all work, I will need to engineer and machine special rotor hats, spacer blocks, and mountings.

I will be adding information to my "Garage" as things progress.

These are my rear Fikse Profil-10 17/10 3-piece wheels.. Fikse now have my build sheet for both the fronts and rears, so if anyone decides they would like to order wheels from Fikse, it will be fairly straight forward. I can help with recomendations for tires and rim widths.

[Guest Troy Halliday]

Sounds interesting keeping the inboard breaks.

If you can keep some good photo references and parts diagrams because after my engine rebuild the gearbox will be the only component that is not new, so I may be in the market for an upgrade before long.

Reading this post did just make me do a little homework and the only upgrade to the UN1 gearbox I could find was that done by Derek Bell. The Un1 gearbox is named all across the internet on various kit cars so there does seem to be a market for a stronger box. If you get this to work I may well have to have a chat with a few contacts that I have made over the last year at kit car shows and seee what one of them could come up with. I was going to have a word with one of them this spring and take my other citreon box up for them to have a look at.

Keep us posted I am very interested to see how you get on.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Jan, this is very interesting indeed.

Sounds like a lot of specialised knowledge is needed but you could end up setting up a blueprint of information that could become very useful to us G-Car owners!

The other potentially simpler path, which I think I will probably go down, is that the Citroen/Maserati Box itself, well, all the 'cogs' etc are, so I'm told, engineered like tractor parts and really ought to be able to take FAR more punishment than we give them.

I have been told by a very reliable source indeed that the problem actually lies with them being engineered DOWN to a price at some point and as a result, cheap and nasty bearings have been used and put undue stresses on the Crownwheel & pinion et al. By replacing these with high quality, well engineered alternatives I have been told that the Citroen box should be good for as much horsepower as we're likely to ever throw at it!

This is the second most important mod / upgrade I have planned! (after the yummy, new suspension!)

[Splashout]

hmm interesting

I remember talking to someone when considering what to do with my engine when it went bang (may have been geoff at EE but not sure) whoever it was had suggested that the main problem to gearbox/transaxle was the factor of the inboard brakes cant remember the ins and outs of it but i seem to remember the thought was if you could over come that you could pretty much bolt anything you wanted in there?

dont quote me on this as it is all from my vague memory

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

If you're wanting to SWAP and lose the brakes then just get the rear end from a front end write off! You'll need all those chunky metal suspenion strutts brakes, tranny etc etc etc but I believe it's Kournikova (eminently doable)

[Simon350S]

Those wheels are well sexy Jan.

Whats the damage for a set of them??

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Yes - I love the wheels too! They remind me of the OZ's on the late cars.

Have you got a pic of the entire car with them on? (See them in situ / context!) The pics in your garage are at too steep an angle to see well!

[f1karting]

Jan, this is very interesting indeed.

Sounds like a lot of specialised knowledge is needed but you could end up setting up a blueprint of information that could become very useful to us G-Car owners!

The other potentially simpler path, which I think I will probably go down, is that the Citroen/Maserati Box itself, well, all the 'cogs' etc are, so I'm told,  engineered like tractor parts and really ought to be able to take FAR more punishment than we give them.

I have been told by a very reliable source indeed that the problem actually lies with them being engineered DOWN to a price at some point and as a result, cheap and nasty bearings have been used and put undue stresses on the Crownwheel & pinion et al. By replacing these with high quality, well engineered alternatives I have been told that the Citroen box should be good for as much horsepower as we're likely to ever throw at it!

This is the second most important mod / upgrade I have planned! (after the yummy, new suspension!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have it on good authority from Mike Rodregues, who has a lot of experence on the SM box; he told me it comes down to two main issues; the SM case is too weak and gearcase flex (at higher HP numbers) will allow the gear lash to change causing rapid tooth wear.. the other is the fact that the gears themeselves are quite narrow and have to carry a lot of psi vs a wider tooth, and will tend to break easier. Thats why the SM is shorter and lighter than the UN1. He also mentioned the size of the CWP.. its small diameter is its undoing in high torque applications.

The other big issue I found with the SM is the clutch..there just isnt anything with enough clamping force that can be made to work with higher HP/Torque. The disc spline drive is very unique and nothing else is available in that config (that I have found) I was originally going to consider Tilton but no luck.. my next option was to custom fit a BMW Plate to a one-off flywheel and have a disc made using an original SM disc center..ugly!! Then god knows what issues Id have with setup and hydraulics..forget it.. thats when the UN1 became a real consideration.. it would be easier to fit inboard brakes than go thru the BS with the SM and then still only have a marginal box. I have plans for about 300-320 hp so the SM option was a non starter..

You may be right about the economics of it, but who knows.. I dont think Citroen or Maserati had any idea wing nuts like us would try and crank 300hp thru them.

new suspension..ahh yes..

[f1karting]

Those wheels are well sexy Jan.

Whats the damage for a set of them??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They were about 800USD each.. yeah I know a bit rich, but there are not too many options available for much less..except maybe the HT from Split-Rim. Still 800 is better than 1400USD for HRE (who make beautiful wheels)!!

Only downside to Fikse is that smallest available diameter is 17, so 16 fronts are out.

Fikse actually make wheels for most of the ALMS prototype cars that race in that series in the US.. kinda nice knowing they are race proven.

Edited January 7, 2006 by f1karting

[f1karting]

Yes - I love the wheels too! They remind me of the OZ's on the late cars.

Have you got a pic of the entire car with them on? (See them in situ / context!) The pics in your garage are at too steep an angle to see well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The wheels and suspension kit are being mocked up in the first two shots... as well you can see I am busy fabbing some body mods (may start a new discussion ) The shell comes off next for a complete strip down.

Rear tire is a 275/40 on a 17/10 wheel.. they are within 3% of OE diameter

Fronts - lots of clearance actually.. these are 17/8 with 215/40s.. these are within 2% of OE diameter

The target appearance shown here .. these I photoshopped onto a mint S3 photo. It was this mock-up that sold me on the wheels