Do we want a new Esprit ?

[CarlC]

Well its probably a question we dont want to face. But what do you think, will the launch of the new Esprit have much effect on the used car prices?

IMO, I think this will effect our car prices and more so for the new higher spec cars.

But I look forward to being proved wrong!

[WayneB]

Yes I want Lotus to build a new Esprit!

The value of the older cars will probably benefit from all the excitement the new car will generate

Not so sure about what it will do to the values of the last V8 Esprits, probably depends how good the new car is!

Edited December 2, 2005 by WayneB

[Guest teigan]

if the car is mostly japanese, like current lotuses, then it'll further devalue the marque, which will ultimately devalue your late model car.

[Kimbers]

if the car is mostly japanese, like current lotuses, then it'll further devalue the marque, which will ultimately devalue your late model car.

For once (and this won't happen again) we agree. What ever happened to opening the bonnet/boot and seeing a Lotus Engine?

[slade]

hmm... not to justify anything, but Lotus has only ever had 2 engines that it's developed on it's own, if I'm not mistaken? the 900 series (based on the Vauxhall) and the most recent V8? Aside from that, it's been Ford, Isuzu, Renault, Coventry Climax... etc. now Toyota. I think a quality V8 from a well known company (Audi, BMW etc) wouldn't devalue the car too much. I think it only ever worked in Lotus' detriment in the M100/Izusu case, but people seem to have been fine with (substantially reengineered) regular production engines.

After all, every "ricer" idolizes BMW. Then again, what demographic should lotus pander to...

Since I'm never going to sell my car, I don't have to worry about prices

Edited December 2, 2005 by slade

[Kimbers]

I think you'll find there is one more...but before making adolt of myself I'll check into it.

Did you know that on the 70's and early 80's cars most parts belonged to Lotus and they even sold Engines etc to Jenson?

Trouble is development costs are just too high these days if a customer engine is available....so I agree but wish it wasn't so.

[WayneB]

Think the owners off the new cars will be missing out if it doesnt get a Lotus designed/built engine

The compettion are still making their own

I just hope that oneday someone invests the kind of money in Lotus needed so, they can show the world what kind of car the company could build given adequate resources

I dont doubt that they have the know how and the talent to make a MacLaren F1/ Buggatti Veron beater B)

[mr50bmg]

I would like to see a new car from Lotus, but I would not want it called an Esprit.

The Esprit has evolved and the series came to a dignified and respectable end. Let's not try to capitalize on the Esprit name with a completely different car.

Let Giugiaro design the car, not Bangle.

My preference would be for a true driver's car - with no electronic or computer-aided control of the steering, braking, or suspension. No satellite navigation. No radio controls on the steering wheel. No heated seats. Air conditioning available only as an option. For the engine, why not use the existing Lotus V-8?

-Dave

[markt]

I'm expecting to be bitterly dissapointed with what's going to be produced.

My personal preference would be a tribute to Old School design of the early 70's, the extreme wedges produced by Italdesign and Bertone. Totally agree with you lot - NO electronic goodies, and other comforts to sanatize the Lotus experience - just driver and machine.

Old fashioned maybe, but I don't think we need another Lambo clone.

Who knows, this might prompt me into getting my arse in gear and actually build the extreme wedge I've been working on/off for years...

[f1karting]

I just hope that oneday someone invests the kind of money in Lotus needed so, they can show the world what kind of car the company could build given adequate resources

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree!!

[hovgaard]

Let Giugiaro design the car, not Bangle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's actually two brilliant ideas compressed into a single, easy to understand, sentence.

[andecorp]

If the new Esprit will be bland and sanitised the way the Murcielago is, then watch used Esprit (the ones we own) prices go up like the Diablos are.

Right now, there's Diablos out there that cost more than a Murcie or even a new Gallardo!

At the local Lambo dealer here, in the rare ocasion that a Diablo pops up, it sells within the week! And Diablo prices all over the world keep increasing while the Murcie and Gallardo's are plummeting.

But I would love to see a 'super' Esprit, with every technological advance in it, as long as it keeps some kind of shape that makes you go ahhh everytime you see it, and even if it is Lambo prices, I'd gladly pay them.

[Loose Cannon]

And Diablo prices all over the world keep increasing while the Murcie and Gallardo's are plummeting.

I was such a fan of the Countach I was pretty disappointed with the Diablo, but am seeing it in a whole new light after the Murci (especially the last VTs)

[Loose Cannon]

I'm expecting to be bitterly dissapointed with what's going to be produced.

Me too to be honest, but then I can't afford a new one and don't want to sell mine so its irelevant for me. I do fret for the future of the marque though if it doesn't deliver.

[WayneB]

I liked the Countach before they got into all the anniversary edition nonesense

Never was a fan of the Diablo, Chrysler should have left Ghandini alone IMO

The Murcie , not realy wild enough ,but for some reason I quite like the Gallardo

If Lotus make a stripped down Gallardo-ish (no 4wd, bells and whistles etc.) I think they would be on to something

(they could make power everything an option for the U.S.)

Oh and some elements from this car I would like too!

Simon Cox would design a super new Esprit

Edited December 2, 2005 by WayneB

[B33 ENN]

I think these days (as always to an extent) Lotus is too preoccupied with survival than building another legend.

They are losing out big time to the market share dominated by the competition. In both the small sportscar and supercar sectors, Lotus can't compete with the new generation of cars buzzing with technology and ergonomic aids.

Lotus needs to build a car that is useable everyday, yet still inspires Pagani Zonda style passion from people..

To me this is much the same situation they were in back when they built the Esprit concept car. They need to stun on the show stand, and impress on the road.

There are two major ingredients that made the Esprit a success, no matter how badly built it was. a ) They made it look fantastic, cutting edge and futuristic, yet handsome and understated. b ) Colin Chapman and his designers new how to make a car that could handle.

Engines has never been a Lotus design element. They never invested enough into this for their own needs as they always try to use parts from else where. Only under ownership from big industry players have Lotus been asked to work on engines in a big way. Lotus' main skill was in tuning a well designed base engine design.

I think the new "Esprit" will be a hybrid of the same ideas they have used before. The Elise is the most recent example. They made a car that appealed and sold well, at the same time offering something no other manufacturer had at the time. The Elise success was essentially a re-visiting of old Lotus values, of lightness for performance, efficiency in design and low production cost.

Since the Elise, the market has responed by taking 'drivers cars' or 'weekend runabouts' very seriously. With the new Esprit, Lotus success depends on them doing the same again, finding a new expression for supercars that no one else is doing yet, and price it right.

And Lotus is not helping itself by being so secretive. They would do well to open up the new design ideas to a few devoted customers from a group like this for our input at this stage. Like a pilot showing. Otherwise, I'd expect it to be basically a larger Elise, building on some of the M250 ideas they never got to use.

The engine will most likely be a development of an existing engine from another manufacturer. The advantage for Lotus there is they may also get a gearbox solution with it, rather than have to go hunting for that separately.

For those that like the old stuff, the new car will dissappoint no matter what. But we might be surprised. We Just don't know.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Wow so many things to comment on!!

Value - I think the newest cars are the ones which will take the hit - especially the V8's However those of us with the true wedges G-Cars, will be utterly unaffected as the sort of person who wants the lates / greatest / fastest... wouldn't be looking at our cars before or after the new one.

Engine - They couldn't really persevere with the old V8 , not because it's a poor engine imho but because they would have blown the entire development budget on developing a transmission to match / fit it... They would be better served spending that money on what Lotus do best - handling / ride and make it a car that drives like nothing on earth (like the Elise was in its class when it caem out.. It has taken Porsche's Coxter and the rest of the world the best part of ten years to catch up with the Elise)

I really don't care who make the lump in the end - it would be nicer if it WAS a Lotus one (it would be nicer if Lotus had the INVESTMENT to do so - I agree with the "Veyron beating" ability comment earlier) but they are where they are. So I'd rather they bought a known, off the shelf Engine and tranny 'package' (which may also mean they may be able to offer transmission options like Manual and then the stupid 'tip' and auto) and didn't waste their precious development funds.

The market clearly don't ACTUALLY care who makes the engine either - contrary to what has been said above... Because of course NO supercar buyer in their right mind would be seen in one of these (Proof positive):

As long as it performs superbly, sounds the absolute tits and won't break every 200 miles then, despite what the odd purist might want, the majority of genuine, potential customers won't give a fig. (tbh neither do I - not that I'm about to buy rush out and one! )

Personally, I REALLY don't like ANY of the fly-by-wire crap on every car on the planet these days. They will HAVE to fit it or all the cars will come back in carrier bags in weeks but I hope the button labelled 'off'' MEANS OFF and not 'less'.

Sorry for a brief thread-steal but while I was looking for the Pagani Engine bay pic I found this and it nearly made me cry!

PS as for the Diablo's value - I think you'll find that only applies in Australia! Over here they are down to the

[Guest teigan]

....

Since I'm never going to sell my car, I don't have to worry about prices

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it has nothing to do with selling the car. if the resale value goes down, it becomes a gamble to drive because of insurance. they can entirely write off your car for nothing more than a gentle rearender. that's based on low current market value of these cars. so more and more of these cars will prematurely end up on the scrapheap. there will come a point where the remaining cars will be collector's items(well maybe not the stevens cars, because the styling is not distinctive.) and go into storage, never to be driven; where's the fun in that?

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

You make a good point...

My car was close to write off and it is looking increasingly like James' SE will be too

Im disturbed... Teigan I've just agreed with you on two posts in a row! You must be losing your touch

[Guest teigan]

You make a good point...

.... You must be losing your touch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wayne would disagree. he's graduated me from: a minor startrek character, to: king of the tossers.

and that was after big brother bibs did some editing to clean up my public image.

[Paul C]

I betcha i don't like the new one, not in the sense it will be 'bad'

but in the sense i did not grow up knowing it. Kinda like the Star

Wars films being 'better' to me than recent sci fi films with better

stories, effects etc.

I also bet, that when the new car has aged, and dropped to a price

i can afford, i will suddenly change my mind and decide to like it...

[WayneB]

wayne would disagree. he's graduated me from: a minor startrek character, to: king of the tossers.

and that was after big brother bibs did some editing to clean up my public image.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is actually telling the truth you know

But I believe he is only trying to lull everyone into a false sense of security

[Kimbers]

wayne would disagree. he's graduated me from: a minor startrek character, to: king of the tossers.

and that was after big brother bibs did some editing to clean up my public image.

I gotta say Teigan that people really do know you well

However I'm with evil, and agree with you twice...I better get my head checked.

New & slight change in topic......I really hope (and this is MY opinion and has nothing to do with any family member) that the new Esprit isn't too similar to the new Europa...it's in the new Autocar here in the UK and looks like a Ford Cougar from the front....not a Lotus if u ask me.....but then what do I know, I've only grown up with them since 3 yrs old.

[Guest teigan]

isn't the truth what so many find disagreeable?

[slade]

I liked the Countach before they got into all the anniversary edition nonesense

Never was a fan of the Diablo, Chrysler should have left Ghandini alone IMO

So, I'm assuming wayne like the cizeta moroder more (gandini's original diablo, sold off to cizeta in a fit of bitterness)

slade