Stiff shift linkage and Alt problem

[lwasson]

This past weekend while I was playing F1 mechanic I got to drive a friends 87 Esprit. John's Esprit shifts very easy and quick compared to mine. I've replaced all the bushings and feel that everything is aligned according to the manual.

I will have had the car 3 years tomorrow and drove it 25 miles before the complete rebuild and I remember it being stiff back then. Could it be the crossgate? I installed a new crossgate cable. I've been tweaking on the linkage for a few weeks now and I'm not making it any better. Any ideas?

The reason I didn't take my '83 to the Lotus Track Day was the alt light came on as I was leaving town. The next day I put a voltmeter on the battery and cranked the car. It went up to 14V and also the gauge read the same. Turned on all the lights, doors open, interior fan on full. Voltmeter and gauge went down to 12.5V. Then is started to slowly climb back up. Then drop. Tthen climb back up to 14V.

During the car's rebuild I took the alt apart and cleaned and inspected it before it went back on the motor. Put new brushes in it. I think it's the internal voltage regulator.

Thanks!

louis

'83 Turbo

[silverfrost]

HI,

HAVE YOU FITTED THE GEAR LINKAGE CONVERSION KIT YET,

S.J SPORTCARS DO ONE AND IT MAKES A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE

NOT SAYING IT WILL DEFINATLY CURE YOUR PROBLEM,

BUT IT WILL BE A START!

REGAR DS DAN

[Guest teigan]

i'm thinking it's an adjustment issue. embarrassed to say, i toyed with mine one afternoon, and made things worse. gotta schedule some time to do it methodically. your alternator diagnosis sounds credible. those regulators are underengineered to be sure.

[mr50bmg]

I've never seen the words "shifts very easy and quick" and "Esprit" in the same sentence before.

Mine is slow and clunky going from gear to gear. It is the one aspect that is not enjoyable about driving the car. I've had numerous Esprit mechanics tweak it and pronounce its operation as "normal". It seems that magazine reviews of the Esprit from the 1980's through 2003 have had little good to say about the Esprit's shifting.

I live with it rather than replace it, as that's part of its character.

-Dave

[Hairyarse]

I recall seeing recently quotes from Stirling Moss having test driven an S3 Turbo and I'm sure he complained about the gear change!

[AJay]

I have replaced the rubber bushes on the linkage rod for roses joints and carries put the SJ conversion on the cross gate linkage, rebushed the translator linkage and replaced the remaining rubber bushes.

Gear change now 100% better.

You don't have to live with slow clunky gear changes.

Life is full of choices.

[lwasson]

I have replaced the rubber bushes on the linkage rod for roses joints and carries put the SJ conversion on the cross gate linkage, rebushed the translator linkage and replaced the remaining rubber bushes.

Gear change now 100% better.

You don't have to live with slow clunky gear changes.

Life is full of choices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Ajay

I'll look seriously at doing this.

Can you send me a pic or two.

louis

'83 Turbo

[dazmans3]

Thanks Ajay

I'll look seriously at doing this.

Can you send me a pic or two. 

louis

'83 Turbo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Louis

I can second Ajay, Changing the Bushes & the SJ conversion made a big difference with my gear change. The thighter the better, as they say. It s not to your modern day sports car standards however you should be able to get good precise changes with out having to force or grind any of the gears.

Has the Gearbox had any work done to it? If the '0' rings on the cross gate lever(where the cross gate shaft sticks out of the box) are new, oversized or have been overpacked with silicon or equiverlant, then this can cause the gear change to fell very stiff. I can send you phots if you would like to see, inc the SJ upgrade.

Phots to big to put on forum & I can't seam to be able to place a normal phot on this bit of the page unless it'has a Thum nail. If any oone out there can assist?

Daz

B)

[lwasson]

Hi Louis

I can second Ajay,  Changing the Bushes & the SJ conversion made a big difference with my gear change. The thighter the better, as they say.  It s not to your modern day sports car standards however you should be able to get good precise changes with out having to force or grind any of the gears.

Has the Gearbox had any work done to it? If the '0' rings on the cross gate lever(where the cross gate shaft sticks out of the box) are new, oversized or have been overpacked with silicon or equiverlant, then this can cause the gear change to fell very stiff. I can send you phots if you would like to see, inc the SJ upgrade. 

Phots to big to put on forum & I can't seam to be able to place a normal phot on this bit of the page unless it'has a Thum nail. If any oone out there can assist?

Daz

B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Daz

You can always email me the photos.

I do have the SJ mod and replaced ALL the bushings. Also replaced the o-rings on the crossgate. Ajay also mentioned re-bushing the translator. Couldn't find a translator in my parts manual. I think he is refering to the vertical linkage that links the two rods together. One rod from the shifter and the other to the lever on the crossgate. Mine does have play and I will have to go back and look at my records to see if I replaced that bushing. Just can't remember?? But it needs to be addressed.

Another problem that I have failed to mention is 2nd gear. Under load (accelerating) it will stay in gear. But say I'm coming into a corner I double clutch from 3rd to 2nd. Put it in 2nd and enter the corner when I hit the throttle it is not in 2nd and I have to put it back in gear. Once in gear and accelerating its ok. If I let off the gas it slips out. Is the synchro going bad?

I haven't mentioned it because I thought it might just be an adjustment problem. All other gears stay locked in.

Thanks!

louis

'83 Turbo

[Guest Troy Halliday]

I have changed all the bushed and the SJ upgrade and my gear chanche is still crap. There is so much play everywhere hat it is a miricle it can find a gear at all. I will be redesigning my linkage at a later dat using rose joints and bearings in the vain hope that I may improve it. I am aslo going to change the middle pivet point to reduce the throw needed to change gear. I will keep you all informed but it will not be untill the early part of next year. Mind you I don't think I can make it worse

[Nigel]

Don't know if anyone can help but I bought a gearchange mod. from ebay about six months ago and I don't know if it's suitable for my car.

It is a rod (titter titter) about 40cm long and about 10mm diameter with a tapped hole at one end and an eye thing at the other which can articulate (if I'm becoming over technical please let me know).

I have an '89 SE.

Sorry , I know this should be in the Steven's Technical room but you were talking about gear linkages.

Also one of the rubber bushes at the base of my gear lever at the end of the cables is worn , can replacements be obtained for these ?

Nigel P.

Edited December 11, 2005 by Nigel

[Guest Troy Halliday]

That sounds like the G -car mod from SJ's don't know if it suits the Stevens. But it is the end piece for the cross gate cable. The original was just a rod with a pin. Your best bet is to ask the stevens lot they may have owned both and will be able to help you.

[Nigel]

That sounds like the G -car mod from SJ's don't know if it suits the Stevens. But it is the end piece for the cross gate cable. The original was just a rod with a pin. Your best bet is to ask the stevens lot they may have owned both and will be able to help you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Troy.

From memory the vendor had fitted the mod to other Esprit's he had owned and I think they were S4's.

The mod was from SJ's.

I'm at my work just now but I'll post a picture at a later date.

Nigel

Edited December 11, 2005 by Nigel

[lwasson]

Thanks Troy.

From memory the vendor had fitted the mod to other Esprit's he had owned and I think they were S4's.

The mod was from SJ's.

I'm at my work just now but I'll post a picture at a later date.

Nigel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Nigel

Send an email to Steve at SJ he'll give you the correct answer and I am more than positive you can get the bushings you need. There are plenty of sources from SJ, JAE, Dave Bean Engineering and several more that have parts and technical advice.

louis

'83 Turbo

[lwasson]

I have changed all the bushed and the SJ upgrade and my gear chanche is still crap. There is so much play everywhere hat it is a miricle it can find a gear at all. I will be redesigning my linkage at a later dat using rose joints and bearings in the vain hope that I may improve it. I am aslo going to change the middle pivet point to reduce the throw needed to change gear. I will keep you all informed but it will not be untill the early part of next year. Mind you I don't think I can make it worse

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Troy

You have done an incredible job on your project. As one who has taken an Esprit all the way to the chassis and back I can appreciate the effort. Your attention to detail is wonderful. I look forward to your shift linkage design.

louis

'83 Turbo

[molemot]

Iwasson - if your gearbox isn't staying in second gear, it may be that the detent spring is weak or broken. If you take the top off the gearbox, the selector mechanism comes off with it and you can check. Had the same sort of problem years ago with an MG TC; the spring on the detent for top gear had partially collapsed, when under power it jumped out of gear. Swapped the spring for the one from reverse and no more problems!!

[lwasson]

Iwasson - if your gearbox isn't staying in second gear, it may be that the detent spring is weak or broken. If you take the top off the gearbox, the selector mechanism comes off with it and you can check. Had the same sort of problem years ago with an MG TC; the spring on the detent for top gear had partially collapsed, when under power it jumped out of gear. Swapped the spring for the one from reverse and no more problems!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great! I'll check it out.

Thanks!

louis

'83 Turbo

[dazmans3]

I have changed all the bushed and the SJ upgrade and my gear chanche is still crap. There is so much play everywhere hat it is a miricle it can find a gear at all. I will be redesigning my linkage at a later dat using rose joints and bearings in the vain hope that I may improve it. I am aslo going to change the middle pivet point to reduce the throw needed to change gear. I will keep you all informed but it will not be untill the early part of next year. Mind you I don't think I can make it worse

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi troy

Sounds silly, as from what others have said so far you may have already covered these. Have you changed the crossgate cable? If this has started to seize it will make changing gear a pig, esp when crossing over from 2 to 3 & back.

Also the gear lever assembly, prone to wear(esp at the base of the gear lever) & breaking. If any of the guide pins are missing or broken then will contribute to poor gear change. Also don't forget the bush on the gear change rod.

There should not be that much play once you, ve change all the bushes. & esp if you've fitted the SJ mod. It wont be totally ridget, but not that it should effect gear change. The one difficult to reach & repair bit will be the Relay lever. this is prone to play, however mine has some play & gear change is still good.

Daz

[dazmans3]

Thanks Daz

You can always email me the photos.

I do have the SJ mod and replaced ALL the bushings. Also replaced the o-rings on the crossgate.  Ajay also mentioned re-bushing the translator.  Couldn't find a translator in my parts manual.  I think he is refering to the vertical linkage that links the two rods together.  One rod from the shifter and the other to the lever on the crossgate.  Mine does have play and I will have to go back and look at my records to see if I replaced that bushing.  Just can't remember??  But it needs to be addressed.

Another problem that I have failed to mention is 2nd gear.  Under load (accelerating) it will stay in gear.  But say I'm coming into a corner I double clutch from 3rd to 2nd.  Put it in 2nd and enter the corner when I hit the throttle it is not in 2nd and I have to put it back in gear.  Once in gear and accelerating its ok.  If I let off the gas it slips out.  Is the synchro going bad? 

I haven't mentioned it because I thought it might just be an adjustment problem.  All other gears stay locked in. 

Thanks!

louis

'83 Turbo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Louis,

Ref the Rubber bushes. There should be four to replace if you haven

[s2_esprit]

In regards to the transmission popping out of second gear. I have never been lucky enough for it to just be a spring. The gearboxes I have had this problem with have always been a worn out slider and worn out engagement splines on the gear. To fix it I've always had to replace both parts. Which means a full gearbox rebuild is in order.

Cheers Jim

79 Esprit S2

84 ET

[lwasson]

I double checked all the suggestions from the group but could never find the problem. So it had to be something really simple and thankfully it was. First thing we noticed when we had the cover plate off the tranny was the bell crank lever nut was too tight making movement of the lever stiff. So we loosened it drilled a hole thru the nut and bolt and inserted and cotter pin. Lever moves freely.

Put it all back together and no change. Ummmm????

With my friend shifting gears I got underneath and looked at the movement of the linkage. Problem popped out like a sore thumb. I just never noticed when working on it by myself. The rear gear change tube was not clearing the chassis. When shifting into 2nd the tube would hit and slide up the chassis member. The chassis was preventing the tube (which is connected to the cross shaft) from fully engaging the gear. We bent the tube to clear the chassis and problem solved. I went out and had a blast. My friend said I was having too much fun.

On model years prior to '85 the rear gear tube goes under the chassis not on top.

Its like driving a new car!! Sweet...

I can now fully understand why they say the 1st year of owning an Esprit is the most dangerous. This car can handle! Got to tone it down or my tires won't last much longer.

I know I'm going on like a kid but I'm happy. After 3 years of rebuilding the car I finally own a Lotus Esprit!! Wow!!!

louis

'83 Turbo

[silverfrost]

WELL DONE PROBLEM SORTED AND IT HAS NOT COST YOU! THATS THE MAIN THING! HAPPY HOONING!

REGARDS DAN