OBD Error Code P1336

[SwissV8]

Can anyone help out here?

After waking the Esprit from its winter hibernation, it ran fine for the first 30min run.

However, next time I started it, the engine warning light stayed on.

Just received my DigiMoto software and interface, so plugged in and got the following error code:

P1336 Crank / Cam Sensor Range / Performance

I'm not a mechanic, but do know a few things. This one, however, I have no idea about!

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm hoping it's just a lose / damp connector, but don't know where to start looking.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[scoule]

I can only find P0336 in the manual ... but it sounds very similar!

PO336 Crankshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance

Description: Rationality checks - looks for intermittent loss of crank pulses

Malfunction Criteria: Crankshaft pulses c 20

Secondary enable conditions: Camshaft sensor pulses >3

Disabled by faults: None

Time required: Immediate

Potential failure modes: - Connector

- Incorrect sensor gap

- Wiring circuit

Limp home:

- Fault on rough road sensor; see codes P1311 - P1313

None. If a crank sensor circuit fault is present the engine will not fire or

start. No fuel will be scheduled

Hope that helps!

[SwissV8]

I can only find P0336 in the manual ... but it sounds very similar!

PO336 Crankshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance

Description: Rationality checks - looks for intermittent loss of crank pulses

Malfunction Criteria: Crankshaft pulses c 20

Secondary enable conditions: Camshaft sensor pulses >3

Disabled by faults: None

Time required: Immediate

Potential failure modes: - Connector

- Incorrect sensor gap

- Wiring circuit

Limp home:

- Fault on rough road sensor; see codes P1311 - P1313

None. If a crank sensor circuit fault is present the engine will not fire or

start. No fuel will be scheduled

Hope that helps!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Steve - at least gives me somewhere to start looking!

Any chance anyone out there has had this before?

Still hoping it's just a connector / damp issue!

[tinywillyuk]

Not a V8 owner but I've suffered a faulty crank position sensor.

I was fortunate enough to connect an oscilloscope in line to see that there was a huge amount of noise coming out of the sensor - you could see 7 pulses at the determined intervals but some other spikes not supposed to be there.

A corroded earth was the problem - didn't find it till after I'd renewed the sensor!

On the 4 pot its at the top of the flywheel and is fairly easy to see, held in by only one screw.

Simon

[SwissV8]

Not a V8 owner but I've suffered a faulty crank position sensor.

I was fortunate enough to connect an oscilloscope in line to see that there was a huge amount of noise coming out of the sensor - you could see 7 pulses at the determined intervals but some other spikes not supposed to be there.

A corroded earth was the problem - didn't find it till after I'd renewed the sensor!

On the 4 pot its at the top of the flywheel and is fairly easy to see, held in by only one screw.

Simon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just got out from underneath the car.

Checked the electrical side of the crank sensor - was clean, no sign of corrosion etc., but gave it a blast of WD40 to get rid of any damp.

While I was at it, I also gave the Cam sensor the same treatment.

Tried the car again, but still get the same error code

One thing I find strange though - If I have the ignition on, but not having the engine running, then reset the error code via the Digimoto software - the error code comes back immediately. Now this I find strange, because if the engine is not running, the sensor should not really be doing anything. Therefore, how can the warning light come straight back on????

I assumed this was because of a poor electrical connection, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Anyone got any ideas?

[tinywillyuk]

Interesting point Steve made - the engine wont fire under the manual spec for P0336 and you said you were running?

If you are running but with the CEL lit, try disconnecting the sensor and then try to crank - it shouldn't fire at all if everythings working to spec.

Having done some digging with OBD2 recently, P1336 relates to the crankshaft position sensor every time, but with different interpretations by OEM. If the V8 ECU is fundamentally GM, as the 4 cyl, then P1336 comes back with a "Crankshaft Position Sensor Variation Not Learned" which potentially means a fault at the ECU end not the sensor end.

According to EMM and EMH bits of the workshop bible most circuits are tested electrically by the ECU when the ignition is turned on, and if they are within tolerance will be used. If not the CEL will light fairly quickly. Additionally some circuits, primarily those using pulse generators, use the rationality check instead. Thats to say if it doesnt pulse when the ECU expects, it aint working!

So in this case - if its really a code P1336 - then perhaps the pulse is there - it must be if the engine is running - but the ECU doesnt know what to do with it correctly?

Have you disconnected the batt and reconnected lately?

[SwissV8]

Interesting point Steve made - the engine wont fire under the manual spec for P0336 and you said you were running?

If you are running but with the CEL lit, try disconnecting the sensor and then try to crank - it shouldn't fire at all if everythings working to spec.

Having done some digging with OBD2 recently, P1336 relates to the crankshaft position sensor every time, but with different interpretations by OEM.  If the V8 ECU is fundamentally GM, as the 4 cyl, then P1336 comes back with a "Crankshaft Position Sensor Variation Not Learned" which potentially means a fault at the ECU end not the sensor end.

According to EMM and EMH bits of the workshop bible most circuits are tested electrically by the ECU when the ignition is turned on, and if they are within tolerance will be used. If not the CEL will light fairly quickly. Additionally some circuits, primarily those using pulse generators, use the rationality check instead. Thats to say if it doesnt pulse when the ECU expects, it aint working!

So in this case - if its really a code P1336 - then perhaps the pulse is there - it must be if the engine is running - but the ECU doesnt know what to do with it correctly?

Have you disconnected the batt and reconnected lately?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the comments - this confused me a little as well - the manual does say the engine shouldn't run, or at least it will run until it is next stopped (Cam sensor), then shouldn't restart.

Well, in my case, I can start the car without a problem, but keep getting the same error code.

The other odd thing is the code itself - P1336 - which doesn't exist in the Lotus manual (closest is P0336). The description given by the Digimoto software says Crank / Cam Sensor Range / Performance, which is covered by two codes in the workshop manual. I find it strange that I can read off a code that Lotus don't list!

.... and now a little worried about the comment re possible ECU problem!

At the moment, the battery is disconnected almost all the time (winter). Given the description of the P1336 code you provided above, I would expect that to disappear after the ECU has been reset, and only come on again after the engine has been running... or am I not understanding that correctly? Having said that, can I actually reset the ECU (learned data, done by disconnecting battery?) or can I only reset the stored error codes?

I think I'll do as you sugest, and try disconnecting the sensor, see if the engine still starts, or if it gives different codes. Perhaps I'll try that this evening, and post the results here.

.... interesting puzzle!

BTW - as far as I know, the ECU is still stock

[scoule]

This is pure guesswork ... but I wonder if the resistance of one of the pickups is out of spec, or detected as such by the ECU.... this could be detected before starting the engine.

If some of the coils inside the pickup are shorted, the resistance will be low but it may still generate an induced EMF signal high enough to allow the engine to run...

I had a pickup in the distributor of my Excel partially short out as the car warmed up. No snazzy ECU to suss it out, the ignition amp just stopped firing when the signal dropped off!

Like I say, this is a real long shot but if everything else checks out, it's cheaper than an ECU!

[SwissV8]

To add a little more info on this issue:

Tonight I disconnected both the Camshaft and Crankshaft sensors. Tried starting the car, but it wouldn't start (not really a suprise!). Then, read off the error codes - same as before - P1336 - no new / additional codes registered. Reconnected both sensors, and tried to start the engine - successful... but still the same P1336 code. Tried to reset the code, but it just kept coming back!

Now the question is, does tonight's test throw any more light on the subject?

All comments / suggestions welcome!

[SwissV8]

For those who are interested..... just got this info from the friendly local Lotus Specialist (the German bit at the start just says that the problem was caused by having the battery disconnected for a long time, and the procedure to follow is a pain in the butt!):

"Der Fehlercode ist entstanden weil die Batterie lange abgeh

[SwissV8]

Great news!!!!

The snow has melted, spring is promised for tomorrow, and......

the fix described by my local Lotus specialist (above) WORKED

Tried the three phase learning cycle, and the light just vanished!

I'm so happy!

So, if anyone gets a P1336 error code in future, you know what to do!

Thanks to everyone one contributed ideas to solve this little puzzle.

[t70]

YAY!!!! I've been beating my head against a brick wall on this one for 3 flipping days!! I can't wait to try this tomorrow morning!!! I even spend 1.5 hours doing a "drive cycle" today.. and no engine code clear.. SOOO excited to try this tomorrow!! THANKYOU!!!!

[SwissV8]

Good luck - hope it helps!

Let us know how it goes.

[t70]

Worked like a charm!!! Thank you very much!! I was soon gonna scream violently and throw tools across the shop.... just kidding, but it was getting rather frustrating.

[SwissV8]

Great news, glad it was helpful. Enjoy the early summer!

[matk]

Wiki'd

[DAE51D]

I just bought mine on Tuesday and it had the engine light on (the seller promised that it would go away or they would pay for repair in writing). The repair shop was on the phone with us and swore it too would go away after driving it for 50 miles or so. It didn't go away. I took it to a friend's shop and found the code, tried to reset but no go. Then we found the solution above. I tried this last night on the empty highway and was elated that it worked! How goofy though! WTF.

I had to do it in 2nd gear though, because @4500 RPM in 3rd, I'd be going like 80+ MPH! in 2nd, you don't get much above 40 MPH. At first I thought the car stalled out since I was so focused on the orange engine light, that when it went away, it too me a second to realize this cock-a-maime solution worked as described.

[lotusespritse]

Any chance this is a good procedure to do every now and then to make sure everything is calibrated perfectly even if you don't have a CEL?

[finnerty]

I'm a little confused on this driving procedure as described that is used to get rid of the P1336 code.

 

Isn't the car running like crap with misfires, etc. while you are doing  this drive procedure until the code is cleared ? Isn't that a bit harsh on the engine to take it up to 4500 RPM under load while the timing is screwy ?

[finnerty]

...I had to do it in 2nd gear though, because @4500 RPM in 3rd, I'd be going like 80+ MPH! in 2nd, you don't get much above 40 MPH. At first I thought the car stalled out since I was so focused on the orange engine light, that when it went away, it too me a second to realize this cock-a-maime solution worked as described.

Does anyone know whether or not this can be done in 1st gear ? I'm low speed road limited for a while outside my garage --- gotta go 15 miles or so before I can get up above 35mph.

Edited May 9, 2015 by finnerty

[AJay]

For those who are interested..... just got this info from the friendly local Lotus Specialist (the German bit at the start just says that the problem was caused by having the battery disconnected for a long time, and the procedure to follow is a pain in the butt!):

 

"Der Fehlercode ist entstanden weil die Batterie lange abgeh

Where is the procedure gone? 

A pal of mine has the same problem how do we reset it?