Goetze Head Gasket

[Monkeybooze]

I think I'm at my wits end. I have had three now and all leak. What are my alternatives? Symptoms are leaking water jacket around the block. On assembly everything appears fine (liner nip, cylinder head straightness, block straightness, surface finish....). I run the engine for a while < 80miles then after sitting sure enough coolant can be seen weeping from the head gasket. I have spent alot of time and money totally rebuilding my engine for this to start happening again. Engine seems to run strongly albeit with a very slight missfire, helped by twiddling cyl 1 idle jet. My gripe is that the Goetze gasket doesn't work ( I have tried 3, first one didn't fit and nipped off the alignment pin holes, second misaligned oil ring + weepage, third weeping). ARRGH Curse you Goetze! Or is it me ? I even thought, I have had alot of success with old cars sealing head gaskets with ordinary silicon sealant in the past (my theory is that it can stretch and it seals out moisture for good) nasty I know but no, I'll do it properly as the instructions say without any sealant. And the damn black sealing ring around the edge still didn't seal. Examining the old gaskets I have kept, there is obviously pressure applied on the sealing surfaces. Any thoughts? Could it be my Head Studs yielding?!?

[Tony K]

I've seen this with the old gaskets (Coopers, I think? the metal ones), as well as with the Goetze. Little bit of seepage of coolant on the underside of the head, usually after the engine cools off. I wouldn't be surprised if the Goetze gaskets were more prone to it, but I really don't know. I think that they used to have different thicknesses for the head gasket depending on how high the cylinder liners sat. Maybe try a little Wellseal or Hylomar? What harm could it do?

Good luck,

Tony

[Monkeybooze]

Thanks for the reassurance that it's been seen before.

Yes, I read that Lotus used to produce 3 different thicknesses dependent upon liner protrusion, it had the .

I think in this case, a little sealant should do the trick, it's stopping me from selling the darn thing at the moment.

Does anyone disagree with the new tightening procedure (angle) that comes with the new gasket? Seems that you could be in danger of yielding the head bolts, which I think is what is going on.

The factory procedure gave different torque specs for the head bolts at each end of the cylinder head.

Back to the garage (again).

[molemot]

I've had the engine apart several times since the Goetze gasket came in....last time I dismantled it after seizing 3 and 4 by going far too fast for far too long, I found that the outermost exhaust side stud on no. 4 had stripped it's thread in the block...had it helicoiled...when I was reassembling I, too, thought about the new tightening procedure with the angular gauge. Book says you should use the new style studs...being mean, I wasn't going to lay out more cash on new studs when the originals seemed OK...so this time round I've used a Goetze gasket with the old style torque procedures, as you say they differ on the outer studs. 2000 miles or so later all seems well...Can't see as a bit of sealant would do any harm around the outer edges of the block.

[Tony K]

I followed the old style torque procedures when installing the Goetze gasket.

[910Esprit]

Simply add some 'radweld' or similar. This is specified as a factory retrofit on some subarus that suffered from the same issue. Also used on some cars from new build. I have used it successfully on a number of occasions - including the same problem you have now. Bear in mind that there are pattern Goetze gaskets available that are s**t. Can be recognised as they are not supplied in a sealed bag and have a copper seal instead of viton around the oil feed.

[Monkeybooze]

Yes, used radweld before on another occasion but it's effects were short lived. I took the head off last night, no signs of anything nasty threads on the head bolts and into the block are all good, gasket fitted pretty well (it's the gasket with the rubber oil seal). Checked the block deck and cylinders, all in tolerance. I'm positive the gasket doesn't seal if you follow everything by the letter. Cylinder head was skimmed so no problems there (good surface finish). Going to put it back together and hope for the best with lashings of sealant. Shame really as it was the only time I managed to get everything else to seal correctly!

Do the roll pins have to have a fitting tolerance as they are the only things that locate the head, maybe a bit of a gap wil cause the head move from side to side relative to the block?

[Vulcan Grey]

I would make sure your liner nip is in spec and that they don't vary too much.

Then I would look at the mating surface in the head, so make sure there isn't a ridge or something.

The Goetze gastket on the 910 holds over 300hp no problem.

[ralphw]

Seen this before. Can be caused if the sealing faces are a bit on the rough side. Go and buy some clear paint lacquer and spray the gasket several times. Once it has hardened fit it. the extra thick lacquer will go into the irregularities and seal when the engine gets hot.

Cheers

Ralph

[matk]

That's a good tip!

[Monkeybooze]

Used the laquer tip and sealant RESULT Job done only thing is the car has developed another problem, think it's exhaust valve related this time so I'm cutting my losses and flogging it on ebay if anyone wants a cheap S3 boo hoo.

[andydclements]

What's the new issue?

[Paul Coleman]

I have one of the Goetze head gaskets. Is the collective wisdom then to ignore the instructions that come with it and follow the book? Why does it suggest replacing the head studs? How important is this as they are quite expensive by the time you miltiply them up

Paul.

[andydclements]

The original studs were designed for the original tightening torque, the later one was probably a bit more demanding (it went from a torque figure, to torque and repeated angular movement)