Start God dam you!

[hopo]

I swear my car is getting worse..... Its running ever so well, pulling and handling beautifuly, is always shiney and generaly looks the part. The only trouble comes when i pull up somewhere remove the keys from the ignition then do whatever i have to do. I get back in... all eyes on the Shiney Classic lotus which some very handsome young man has just got into... keys in ignition... Starter motor... then nothing.... nothing just turning over

The car simply refuses to start even if it is vaguely hot it is becoming most irritating. I pulled up for petrol yesterday and had to leave it at the pumps and go for a 45 min walk around Balham.

Any remedies?

[silverfrost]

Hi Hopo,

Sounds a bit like like the old fuel evaporation in your first few comments, very common in the old esprits with carbs, had the same problems with my old 2.2 engine, The fuel once parked up that is in the carb and lines just evaporates as the engine bay is so hot, So when restarted it just wont fire due to lack of fuel hence the embarrasing cranking over!

The only real way this and it will not cure it 100% is to maybe fit an electric fan to extract hot air that is timed to run for a few minutes after engine cut off, Also how olds the fuel pump...also just to help it out change the plugs and check the ignition timing, but probably most likly the fuel evaporation is the culprit,

Also as you seem to keep your car in pretty good shape and intend to keep it, maybe look at fuel injection, hilly on the forum converted his old 2.2 to run on mega squirt ecu, A very good upgrade for performance, cuts the risk of an engine bay fire slighty, and also helps cure the fuel evaporation problem.

Could be other things but without looking its just a stab in the dark, im sure many other people will soon post up some other possible causes aswell.

Hope this helps regards danny

[ramjet]

If you've got spark at the plugs, I'd be going with lean mixture. Try sometime driving the car home and while it's hot, pop the air intake off the carbs get someone to crank it over and put your hand over the carb mouths. That'll make it pull more via the fuel side. If it starts straight up, it's a pretty good indicator of running lean.

What colour are the plugs?

Edited May 10, 2010 by ramjet

[jonwat]

The fuel once parked up that is in the carb and lines just evaporates as the engine bay is so hot,

If it were this you'd be able to hear the SU pump ticking like crazy refilling the carb float chambers & once they're full it would restart no problem.

Restarting hot carbureted engines was always a problem & Lotus did fit an electric extractor fan to the later cars but it didn't seem to improve matters much.

If it's the major problem you describe then I'd make sure you can hear the pump ticking fast for a while when you turn the ignition on in the morning & then check the ignition electrics & timing.

Good luck

[red vtec]

Mine is the opposite, starts fine when hot, is a real buggger when cold take a while to fire up and then will stall a couple of times then is lumpy until its warm, any ideas?

[Bibs]

Do you use the choke? On my old carbed NA I never used the choke once, just a couple of pumps on the throttle and then off to start. Always fired up easily and idled well no matter what the weather.

[red vtec]

My Choke is disconnected, by the DPO. I spoke to Andyclements about it, I'm going to trace the cable and link it up. Do you think thats the issue?

[Bibs]

As I said, I never used it but if you're struggling to idle from cold then that's exactly what the choke is for.

[matk]

On my last S2 Esprit, and my current Eclat, the chokes were/are disconnected, but on both, if I manually adjusted in the engine bay it created a faster smoother idle from cold, as it's designed to. Like Bibs though I never bothered as both cars are/were easy enough to start, and as long as you were careful about how you introduced throttle would run up to temp quite quickly.

[GavinT]

I've never had a fuel evaporation issue with mine when the engine is hot. Even when the outside ambient temperature is 90+ degrees. Mine is a standard S1 with Dellortos. I would look at the fuel pump(check pressure),fuel filter and mixture as has already been suggested. Perhaps your ignition control module is playing up when it gets hot, if you have electronic ignition installed and not points.

Good luck.

Gavin

[Bazza 907]

Jon

Does sound like fuel starvation. Does it restart straight away if you turn the engine off but not restart easily if left hot for more than 2 or 3 mins?

Mine does that but does finally come to life after a lot of churning. I think I saw Paul Matty offering Esprit fuel pumps at c£50 in club Lotu smagazine this month - might help. The purge pump might help too - my '89 they had them fitted to Excel engines yn.dNew Somebody

Edit - Sorry hit return button by mistake.

My '89 Excel had one fitted and it helped a bit - I remember starting wasn't so good after it broke.

Also it could be due to that "very handsome young man" getting into your car - got to watch that.

[andydclements]

I go with fuel as well, it seems most likely, but would it start if you only stopped for a minute or so? If not then I may alter my view.

It could also be a weird electrical issue, such as coil starting to fail and just not being strong enough spark when hot and low voltage supply.

[hopo]

Thak you for all the most helpful replies. starting the car from rest is fine. i would rule out a fuel pump issue as it had a new one fitted by Mr Gerald "Esprit" turner only 2 or 3 months ago. It may well be a spot of evaporation also so a fan may be an idea.

I have the Lumenition mounted outside the engine bay just to the side by the boot section to try and keep it cool and it doesnt seem too hot. I fear it may well be some odd electrical foible. after some considerabe running or fafing about in traffic my car does run rough (esp with the fans on) the car runs rougher and rougher and will feel asif its gonna konk out with the volts pretty low so could be connected to this (it rarely does this tho... Touch wood!)

[trackmagic]

Hopo,

Two things you might check. The hot (12v) wire to the coil and the coil itself. On my car I accidently noticed the wire had become frayed at the connecter and thus only a few strands of copper were actually crimped.

If this is OK then you might hand to try replacing the coil. If you are really adventurous, replace the ignition system with the later CEI unit from the turbo model. You will need the distributor module, amplifier box and coil. A much better system overall. The parts are easily attainable as they are the same as used on the MG, Triumph and Jaguar cars.

I am sure there is more info about this upgrade on the forum.

Best,

Jeff

[Mike6]

I have jumped forums here since I have the Stevens Esprit turbo but very similar problems. The car is garaged and starts fairly easily sometimes first time. If I stop to buy petrol or make a short stop it starts first go but leave it an hour or so and it really chugs over before starting. Fairly embarrasing if you have stopped at a nice pub and people start looking at the car. I have tried everything, new plugs, plug leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, coil, carb settings/mixture and changed all the vacuum lines and probably more that I have forgotten. I tend to make sure the battery is fully charged before going anywhere as I am certain one day that it will die on me. I an thinking of taking apart the starter motor as it could probably do with a clean and grease and changing the fuel pump both of which look original.

Its reassuring that others have the same problem and fuel evaporation could be right but surely as soon as you turn the ignition key and the pump starts clicking petrol will be going into the carb chambers.

[trackmagic]

You mentioned starter motor, is it slow to turn over? If so and the starter is original change it out with the gear reduction unit. It will spin that motor over no problem.

I am going to mention the obvious and say check the distributor timing and go one step further and do it with a light that allows you to check the ignition advance.

I can't imagine in England having an issue with vapor lock.

Best,

Jeff

[Esprit_Emperor]

Hello, i have followed this thread and i had a warm start problem last year. Explained as follows:

Fuel pump worked ok but where old so no problem with cold start and needed alot of choke until ok idle.

Then when stopped at gas station it took choke and pump at the throttle and igniton a couple of times. I followed the Esprit "Service notes book" and made the following:

1. A new intake manifold gasket and bolts.

2. New o-rings between the intake manifold and carbs.

3. Cleaned the carbs with new o-rings etc.

4. New leads

5. New sparkplugs

6. New rotor

7. New ditributor cap.

Now it warmstarts with no problems without pumping the throttle

//Fred

Edited May 13, 2010 by Esprit_Emperor

[matk]

Reading through all the comments I'd go with a coil on way out too, breaking down electrically when hot.

Unlikely to be pump if it's new, and a failing pump usually starts showing symptoms by struggling to deliver what's required at high demand, high revs, acceleration. Even if it was fuel evaporation I don't see that as a big issue for a fuel pump, it's still not a high fuel demand situation.

As far as evaporation goes, if you suffer from it, it'll have occurred prev, not just suddenly now.