Wheel spacers on Esprit S1?

[ElEsprito]

Hello, I'm thinking of filling the rear wheel arches of my S1 by fitting wheel spacers. Has anyone done this? Will it increase the load on the rear bearing & upper link (drive shaft) unacceptably?

Looking forward to some thoughts/experiences

Regards

Dennis

[Advantage]

I've never seen them fitted to an S1, but I know what you mean about filling the arches. They do seem to have a 'tucked in' look about them (similar to an E Type etc) however I'm not sure spacers are the way forward for an S1. You'd be replacing u/js even more frequently than you have to now.

Anyone got experience with fitting a wider tyre on the rear?

[comem47]

I don't know how wide you mean by wide, but I once had 235/60-14 for rears on my S2 (turns out to be the identical circumference to the stock 205/70-14, just wider.) I believe I had to remove the heat shield in that wheel well but otherwise fit fine (that was many years ago with V rated Goodyear Gatorbacks) Currently I'm running 225/60-14 rears with the speedo reading slightly higher than actual. I cant seem to locate any pictures showing a closeup of the rear, but here is a distant angle shot from back then.

Edited July 26, 2010 by comem47

[pyropolymer]

bob

your jps looks fantastic with the wider 235's. what track was that? i ran into a very quick jps S2 at grattan a few years back. it had a converted rear outboard brakes

cheers

pp

[Tony K]

Hello, I'm thinking of filling the rear wheel arches of my S1 by fitting wheel spacers. Has anyone done this? Will it increase the load on the rear bearing & upper link (drive shaft) unacceptably?

Looking forward to some thoughts/experiences

Regards

Dennis

Hello Dennis,

Personally, I think the lifespan of the wheel bearings is short enough already; I would not want to put more mass farther out than there is already. I do, unfortunately, have some experience with spacers on an S1, and the wheels/car shook whenever it went over 65mph. They were the flat disc-type spacers, but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting "proper" bolt-on spacers to be any better. Consider, also, that spacers will alter the car's rear track, making it (I think, IIRC) wider in the back than in the front, FWIW.

As F1-cool as 235/60/14 tires look on an S1, that heat shield is there for a reason! I, too, run 225/60/14 tires on my S1s, but they clear the heat shield (which appears on catalyst-equipped cars), and I would not get any closer to the exhaust.

Cheers,

Tony K.

[comem47]

PP: That pic was taken at LOG14 at Lime Rock in '94. While I also have done a track day at Grattan (the first time for me at a previous LOG) that JPS definitely wasn't me. (I'm not that fast and definitely stock setup on rear brakes). Tony: I had the heat shield on my non-ctalyst S2, but original exhaust had a pre-muffler and regular muffler, all changed now to a lighter and better breathing Dave Bean SS headers/exhaust with only one muffler. Clearance was OK with the 235's but no problem with the 225s. As for spacers: I've seen them used to correct the offset back to normal when fitting 15 and 16 inch wheels, which shouldn't change the loading as the wheel track is kept to stock width. If I didn't have a JPS it would be tempting to go to the larger wheels these days for better tire availability and the ability to fit larger brakes at the front.(one thing I found that limited my fun when I was still doing track days is how poor the stock brakes are after a few hot laps, particularly after the long straight at Watkins Glen down into turn 1 ;-P )

Edited July 28, 2010 by comem47

[pyropolymer]

bob

its fantastic to see a S2 out on the track.

during my track day with great lakes lotus club, i passed nearly everything out there (non lotus car) including a fleet of lotus elise brought out from Lotus North America for film there promo commercial, M3 coupes, 5.7 firebird and all the 911 including a 993 turbo.

the only 2 cars that passed me all day was brian culver's modified europa with a spyder chassis and the bloody fast well driven JPS S2 sprit with after market wheels and brakes. my hunch is the motor is not stock either. being a esprit owner myself i was pleasantly surprised and proud that someone finally sorted out the sort comings of the old G-body half shaft suspended car.

there was also a red S3 turbo that day but was spewing out fluild as it returned to the paddocks.

i love that underrated little know track, reminds me of donnington when i was in the uk. highly technical with off camber and blind corners plus a jump! a far cry from the simple layout of lime rock... right?

please indulge us with more S2 track pics!

cheers

db

ps

i agree load should increase dramatically with the same track with wider tires although the overall grip increases. having correct hub-centric flange spacers should cure any vibration issuses.

[ElEsprito]

All, thanks for the replies and input.

I'm very tempted to take the 235/60/14 route. That would (imho) do more justice to the visual appearance of the rear end. Does 235/60/14 fit the regular S1 Wolfrace wheel or do I need to get it widened?

Cheers

Dennis

[comem47]

DB: Yes, as I mentioned Grattan ('93?) was the first track day I did and it was real fun and I remember that off camber part. Since my car was never that modified (except the exhaust, Dellortos and Euro timing) I could never really take it to the fullest. I remember on one of the track days at Watkins Glen with the Shelby club that the big muscle V8s would walk away from me on the straights, but taking the bus stop at speed I hardly had to lift with my lighter weight and eventually this rhythm worked out that if I was about to approach the bus stop the muscle cars let me zip past and through and then they'd retake me on the next straight. The Esprit being so light it was great in those bits, but of course the muscle cars have much more weight to toss about. We each had lots of fun. As I mentioned if I didn't have a JPS (that I fear modifying too much), I'd do the whole bit with larger 4 pot calipers and rotors (with larger wheels permitting that) and adding ducting , the upper link (turbo style) in the rear and more engine mods (2.2 crank etc with a bit over 200HP), That would be a fun track car at like 2300 lbs). Somewhere I have a few more pics at Lime Rock, but they are buried at the moment. (I enjoyed Lime Rock too with the track drying out over time). As I mentioned Watkins Glen really showed the weakness of the stock brakes, even running the hi-temp 550 dry Ford DOT 3 fluid. Those tiny single piston calipers, even with better track pads just can''t cut it and I was bleeding after boiling throughout the day.

Dennis: I don't know if anyone makes 235/60-14 tires these days. The S2 Speedlines are also slightly wider wheel than the S1 Wolfrace rims (S2 having 7 inch front and 7.5 inch rear as compared to 6 inch front and 7 inch rear) finding good rubber in 14 inch size is pretty hard these days (at least in the US). Current tires I have fitted (Falken ZE502 225-60/14 on the rear) you can't get any more (I like them, it's a shame) Picture below compares the 205/ 60 front to the 225 /60 rear)

Edited July 28, 2010 by comem47

[Tony K]

Yes, a 235/60/14 will fit on a stock Wolfrace rear wheel. Unfortunately, the only 235/60/14 available today is a heavy, "let's do burnouts" muscle car tire, with a "S" or "T" speed rating. The Esprit will not drive, handle, and feel like it should with these. They're great for a 1970 Oldsmobile, however!

I, too, have the Falken ZE-502s on my S1s, with 225/60/14 on the rears. A while ago, Grassroots Motorsports was attempting to start a campaign to petition a tire maker to make available performance tires in sizes for older/smaller cars, but unfortunately no one was interested. It seems no one wants to ante up $150 for a proper tire when they can buy Sumitomos for $45 a pop. You get what you pay for, IMHO.

Right now, for an S1/S2 with stock wheels, you pretty much have two choices, and both are 205/70 on the rear. You can buy the Sumitomos (H-rated) for $45-$50 per tire, or import some Fulda Assuros at $100-$150 a piece plus shipping. The Fuldas are V-rated on the rear and H on the front (if the fronts are still available). The rears are kept available because of Ferrari 308s, which use 205/70/14 on all four.

I wouldn't put anything less than an H-rated tire on an S1/S2 (I don't even consider that ideal, but it's the best we can do right now). Why even buy a performance car if you are going to rob it of its abilities. One may say, "I don't plan to go XXXmph in it," but a higher speed rated tire will behave better at all speeds; the strength needed to withstand 135mph or 149mph gives it more stability at 60, 70, etc. mph.

At the end of the day, no need to sweat it if your S1 doesn't have steamrollers on the back; they look every bit the classic with original size 205/70.

[lotuschris]

Hi all

Reading this thread and Fulda Assuros, are they available in the UK and from where? Is there any other 205/70/14 rear tyre that someone could recommend? I will need two pretty soon.

Regards Chris

[pyropolymer]

a period correct classic would be Michelin xwx

they arent cheap anymore unfortunately

they also come in a wider 215-70 vr 14 found on the rear of the countach if memory serves

cheers

pp

[ElEsprito]

Been browsing the web a bit and seems darn impossible to find the beloved 225/60/14 or 235/60/14. Except for the tires meant for the american muscle cars. Bummer....