Gearbox Cluch Shaft/output Shaft Play

[Guest Troy Halliday]

I have removed the engine and box from the car this weekend, it went quite well apart from the fact that the engine hoist could not reach far enough into the engine bay. So not to be beaten I removed the Gearbox first, climbed into the engine bay threw a few straps around the engine, got the hoist as close as I could then while I lifted the engine towards the hoist my friend hurridly hooked it up and another friend began to pump away like a furious nutcase to take the strain of me. After nursing my scratched arms and strained groin we lifted the engine as high as we could get it and then pushed the car out of the way.

I loaded the engine and box into the back of my friends van poped down to my friends Clasic Triumph workshop and jetwashed of the 1/2 inch of accumaleted greace and dirt.

Finaly back in the workshop I stripped the engine down to a pile of bits, cleaned them in the parts cleaner (a recent purchase ) I started to have a look at the gearbox today and noticed that the Clutch shaft (I think thats what it's called, the main shaft that joins up the engine) had quite a lot of play on it. Now if this was any other car I would say that the bearing was, to be kind, knackered.

Now I have never touched a gearboxes inner workings but I get the feeling I am about to!

Any and all advice would be appreciated.

Oh and while I think of it does anyone own a Piston Liner extractor, only it seems like it is just a square metal plate that sits ontop of the head bolts and a circuler piece of steel that sits at the bottem of the liner with a big bolt though the centre of each. Only

[mike.griese]

I started to have a look at the gearbox today and noticed that the Clutch shaft (I think thats what it's called, the main shaft that joins up the engine) had quite a lot of play on it. Now if this was any other car I would say that the bearing was, to be kind, knackered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kind of play are you experiencing?

The input shaft is splined on both ends. One end matches the splines

in the clutch disc, the other end matches splines in the primary shaft

of the gearbox. Behind the input shaft (inside the primary shaft)

is a spring to force the input shaft forward. The input shaft is captured

in the primary shaft by a very small wire circlip. This allows the

input shaft to float a bit fore and aft.

Mike

[Guest Troy Halliday]

Thanks Mike,

I have just got back fom stripping the box down to have a look. I have never come across a box that has a floaing input shaft before so thought there was a bearing shot somewhere, I'm gllad to say there wasn't. What I'm not so glad about is a couple of teath missing from the small wheel just before 4th gear. Not the syncro but the smaller wheel just before the 4th gear wheel. I've also got some scores on the primery shaft, proberbly caused by the broken teath.

I haven't had the car running so I'm not to sure what effect this will have, but it looks like I will be rebuilding my first gearbox

Oh well not to worry, it's only money after all (searches for a crying emoticon)

[Esprit2]

Harry Martens is an independent transmission repair shop in The Netherlands. He specializes in Citroen transmissions and has all the parts you might need to repair your Esprit's gearbox at good prices.

http://www.ds-vitesse.com/home.html

I've rebuilt six Esprit-Citroen gearboxes (several with Mike Griese... Hi Mike), so I'm getting familiar with them. If you get stuck, feel free to contact me directly at tengel@mchsi.com. You could post a message to this forum but I don't check it every day. However, I do check my personal e-mail frequently and might be able to get back to you with a timely response.

If all you plan to do is remove the primary shaft assembly and address the 4th gear issue, no special tools are required. The only ones that would be called for are gauge pins to set gaps and you can work around that with a little ingenuity. Drill bits of the proper diameter work well.

If you indend to fully strip and rebuild the gearbox, then there are a few special tools you will need.

The pinion height needs to be set accurately and there's a special Citroen fixture for measuring it. The fixture is no longer available from Lotus or Citroen. Contact Harry Martens to see if he has a loaner you can use. If all else fails, I can send you a drawing that describes how to measure the height with a straight edge and vernier. The fixture is best by far, but if you can't find one I can talk you through the principle. On the up-side, if you don't replace any components on the secondary shaft, the original pinion height adjustment should not have to be changed. Just check it for peace of mind. However, if you replace a synchro hub for instance, plan on re-shimming the pinion height.

The gear that drives the speedometer cable drive has a threaded bore and also serves as the nut that holds the secondary shaft assembly together. You will need a special wrench to remove the gear/nut, but it's no longer available from either Lotus or Citroen. I can send you a drawing that shows how to modify a 36mm crowsfoot wrench to do the job... let me know if you want it.

The gear/nut is no longer available (unobtainium) so don't even think about jury rigging some form of abuse to remove it. If you damage it, you have a problem. Harry Martens has Citroen gear/nuts, but the ratio is different. You would have to buy both the speedo gear/nut and the mating gear, and then live with a speedometer that no longer reads the way it once did.

If you have never rebuilt a gearbox before, this one is a tough one to learn on. It would be a good idea to solicit the help of a friend who has at least been into a transaxle before.

Good luck,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[Esprit2]

Turbo Esprit's with the Citroen transaxle have

The OEM spigot bearing is a little needle bearing affair. If the circlip retaining the spring loaded input shaft fails (they do), and if the Nylatron thrust washer wears out (it will), Then the shoulder at the end of the spigot journal will bear against the spigot bearing and the end of the crank. Any time there is a speed differential between the input shaft and crankshaft, the shoulder will cut away at the crank.

As it cuts deeper into the crank, more friction will occur so the input shaft will continue to spin or drag when the clutch is depressed. As a result, it will feel like the clutch is dragging and it will be difficult to shift gears. Eventually, the input shaft will move forward far enough to reduce the spline engagement with the gearbox primary shaft to the point that it can no longer transmit the engine's torque. It strips out and all drive is lost.

The little needle spigot bearing cannot prevent that. In the S-Turbos with the Renault transaxle, Lotus went to a deep-groove ball bearing with distinct inner and outer races. The input shaft shoulder presses directly against the inner race and they spin together... there is not relative motion of sliding friction. And the deep-groove ball bearing has sufficient axial load capacity to support the load from the spring loaded shaft.

Since you have the crankshaft out, consider modifying it to take a 6202 ball bearing. Take it to an automotive machine shop and have them enlarge the Spigot bore to 35mm dia x 20mm deep. Take the 6202 bearing along and ask for a finger press fit between the bearing and bore. While they're at it, they should also cut three notches down in the new bearing pocket so the hooks of an internal bearing puller have someplace to go. That will make getting it out much easier in the future.

Then have them skim-cut a couple of thousandths of an inch off the input shaft's spigot journal OD. The bearing bore ID and the spigot journal OD are both 15mm. That's too tight for a slip fit especially when you're trying to fit it blind while installing the transaxle. Ask for a light slip fit into the bearing plus a generous chamfer on the end of the shaft for a nice tapered lead. The journal no longer has to act as a bearing race for the needle bearing, so exact length of the chamfer isn't critical... maybe 1/8 inch.

I've used a 6202-2RS (sealed on both sides) with good success. However, the Lotus-Renault spigot bearing (same OD as the 6202, but larger bore) is sealed on one side and open on the other. The bearing is packed with greased and then extra grease is put into the bore in the back of the crank as a reservoir. If you elect to go that way, get a 6202 with just one seal.

Install the bearing into the crank with Loctite.

I've done this mod 3 times now and it's the way to go. It's what the original spigot bearing should have been. Especially in the Turbo. S1/S2 input shafts had a stepped shoulder at the spline that the circlip could get a grip on. In the Turbo gearbox, the step was replaced by a smooth transition to eliminate the stress riser... they were trying to help the transaxle live longer under the Turbo torque. However, the combination of a very light circlip and a smooth step transistion means the input shaft can pop out of the primary shaft. Then the spring just forces it forward into the crank. S1/S2's don't have the problem. Turbos do. The ball bearing fixes it.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[Guest Troy Halliday]

Thanks for the info Tim.

I have sent you an email and wil be taking your advice on the spiget bearing when I get round to working on the box.

Regards

Troy