S1 Project car - part 2 - the continuation

[Lotusfab]

2 minutes ago, Fridge said:

I just think you need a bigger hammer Fabian.

David, I don’t know how you managed to get the doors to shut flush in your car. Even if I press against the door as hard as I can they still won’t close because the seal is about 4 mm too thick. When I switch the new seal to my Turbo the same problem occurs. The doors on the Turbo close perfectly with the old seals and stick out about 8 mm with the new ones. An unacceptable load on the catch still cannot make them flush and would probably cause the catch and lock mechanism to fail or be unreliable. Hopefully I will get some correct ones made and end of problem.

I made a profile sketch of the original seal. The new ones are nothing like it. 

Once I get a reasonable quote I will take the original seal in for copying.

[Fridge]

I don't know Fabian. Mine were from SJ Sportscars, and bought with a ton of other parts in my first consignment in November 2016.

I'm not seeing any excessive pressure on the door mechanism either.

I've asked a couple of other S1 restorers of their experiences also, but none have had issues either. Using seals bought before and after mine.

Mine were long, but I took my time to hammer them into the corners using a rubber mallet, as directed by my pal who's QA for Nissan in Washington. They did look over long, but they went in OK with perseverance. The doors were left closed for the following 2 winters whilst the restoration continued. With the aim of getting the seals to take their shape a little.

Certainly I have found remanufactured parts are often not the best option when restoring cars, and have refitted cleaned up original parts where possible. Even with lots of new parts I'm delighted how much has been reused.

Hopefully your replacement seals will solve your problem and you'll still have some summer to get out in the S1 and give it some beans.

[Lotusfab]

Mmm, its a mystery. I bought another seal from a different supplier and it was the same extrusion profile and also didn’t fit. The seals do shrink over time, but the excess material was ridiculous!  Oh well I’m glad you sorted yours, the door on your car looks great. I will know next week whether I can sort this. I may have to buy 100 metres of seal! 

I have replaced two of the wheel centre caps today thanks to Paul Coleman who had them made from the original die, they do look so much better. I will do the other two tomorrow. I was distracted by helping Andy on here take an engine out of his AZ1.

[Fridge]

100m isn't too bad. What's that equate to, 20 sets? And they fit all G-cars.

I assume they made them up as a complete door seal, joining the two ends?

Did you have to use any sealant to fix the centre hubs? Folk often do it seems.

[Freemason]

The seals you have which are not a good fit, are these the SJ ones?

[Lotusfab]

Will pm you.

[Lotusfab]

19 hours ago, Fridge said:

100m isn't too bad. What's that equate to, 20 sets? And they fit all G-cars.

I assume they made them up as a complete door seal, joining the two ends?

Did you have to use any sealant to fix the centre hubs? Folk often do it seems.

The seals haven’t  been made yet. The ends may have to be diy. Yep I used silicon to glue the centres. They were too loose otherwise and would probably fall in!

Just finished Tuning the S1. I found one of the fuel Banjos had started to seep fuel. Just needed a tighten up, lucky escape! I may take the carbs iff and give them a clean out. I have sea foam fuel additive. Has anyone tried it? Its supposed to clean the carbs.

[Fridge]

I'd try and get the manufacturer to bond their door aperture sets in house, as if done correctly it'll be far better.

At least you have a decent extinguishing system fitted I seem to remember from our Team S1 group chat 4 years ago at Brands Hatch.

I can't afford one at present as my business has tanked since June, with both the NHS and my construction clients struggling to catch up with their backlog and also social distance.

I find using the car prevents fuel going south due to standing. A fellow very long term S1 owner successfully uses fuel stabiliser "off season". However the best thing for any car is regular use.

Thanks for confirming the wheel hubs. Mine are similar, and I know a US owner has originals which are also siliconed in also.

[Lotusfab]

These cars need regular inspection of the carbs for fuel leaks. I am so glad I spotted it when I was tuning them! Even with 4,5 litres of extinguisher, its far better not to have to use it for a loose bolt! Yep driving is the best thing for these cars. I am lucky I haven’t been to work for a while and its helped me sort the cars! Low mileage doesn’t mean much on an Esprit. Far better its driven and maintained, as I found out with the Turbo! 
These cars are really quite reliable if maintained correctly. 

[Lotusfab]

Wheel centres replaced, thanks Paul.

[Paul Coleman]

Looking sharp

[Rolls]

Hi Fabian

i would be interested in a set too please. 

I messaged Steve a couple of months ago and he stated “they are perfect.”

Looks like Steve’s are in fact the wrong profile. To get the new ones to conform, have you tried taping them down to the workshop floor, heating and then place plywood with some weight on it?

[Fridge]

Mine from SJ fit fine.

[Lotusfab]

21 hours ago, Rolls said:

Hi Fabian

i would be interested in a set too please. 

I messaged Steve a couple of months ago and he stated “they are perfect.”

Looks like Steve’s are in fact the wrong profile. To get the new ones to conform, have you tried taping them down to the workshop floor, heating and then place plywood with some weight on it?

Hi Rolls, unless Steve has found a New supplier the ones I bought about six years back are totally the wrong size and profile. The company I have got to remake them have not got back to me yet. I believe Lotus still have the original tool and can remake the door seals. I am waiting to see if they will supply me some. 

[Rolls]

Given the variance of replies, perhaps we should post some pics of what we have, both original and new? I’ll take some shots tonight

[Fridge]

This is about the best I've got, as it's now installed. Using the SJ Sportscars door jam seal.

Note, I used a soft mallet to  gently hammer home each corner, as per the advice of a pal who works in automotive QA. The seals are not oversized, but fit perfectly when correctly and fully seated in the door jam.

This is the same side on the completed car. I had the seals fitted in the body shell ASAP, which were then compressed by the doors over 2 winters during its restoration. The door aligns very well. I just find that they take time and effort to adjust. A lot of time!

[Lotusfab]

The seals I have are a commonly available profile, which is nothing like the original, its ,thicker. I took a new seal off my S1 and tried it on my Turbo, the Turbo door then wouldn’t close flush. The new seals put too much pressure on the door catch. Heres my measurements and sketch of the original. You can compare it with your new ones. If Lotus have the original tool and can remake the seals that obviously is the best way to go.

 

[Rolls]

Not the best pics. Note the faint textured box section.

[Lotusfab]

Finally I have found a door seal which may work. I have fitted it to my Turbo drivers door and the door closes perfectly. Its slightly different in dimensions but the critical depth is spot on. Not sure how future shrinkage will affect it? Heres the profile and its available from COH Baines. Remember so far it's untested and might leak. The seals I have bought from the usual suppliers have all been far to thick putting excessive pressure on the door catches. I look forward to testing these on my S1 and finally getting the doors flush! Heres the profile... 
 You want the Dx80 vulcanised. Its really good quality better than the others I bought at extortionate cost. It is very easy to cut and the metal clips inside are easy to break off so jointing is very easy. You can by it with a corner joint and then join on the lower part and the front of the door where you can’t see the join. Remember you have to loop it and compress it as you install so that when it shrinks it doesn’t pull away from the door.

But please be aware I have not yet tested this in wet conditions and it is possible it ill leak! On the upside its about £20 per door as oppose to £120 from the usual suppliers and you won’t break the door catches and scratch your paint! 

[Lotusfab]

The supplier tells me the shrinkage is 0.05. So this is 50 mm per metre of shrinkage in the future. Multiply the door perimeter by 0.05. If it was four meters of seal that would be 200mm of shrinkage, so you would have to cram this extra in when you fit the seal. The method is to loop and press in compressing the seal as you go. When you do this with the other suppliers seals, that I bought six years back, it creates a seal the door can’t compress without excessive pressure. This is because the seals the6 supply are too thick to start with!  The door mechanism and catches are delicate so you really don’t want to fit seals where the doors can’t fully shut without massive force. Maybe they have updated them now, but the ones I bought 6 years back were not fit for purpose.

I’ll post some pics later.

[Paul Coleman]

Good to know as this car I just bought doesn't have any door seals with it.

[Lotusfab]

Ok heres why the seals don’t allow the doors to close!The lower seal in the picture is the original. It is made of a softer rubber than the new ones and is easily compressed. The middle seal is my new alternative. The clip part is narrower which means it cannot be fitted over the carpet, but this isn’t a problem you just cut it back a bit. Note the seal part is almost identical. The top one is the sealer supplied version. Whilst it can be fitted over the carpet look at the seal part. Its narrower and deeper and is much more difficult to compress that the other two. I think my alternative should seal better, as it is wider and will compress more-but I will test it and report. It will be nice to have the doors flush on my S1! 

[Lotusfab]

Started up the S1 for the first time yesterday. Clutch seized on! What do you do? My method warm the engine up in neutral. Turn it off. Select reverse gear. Start in reverse with a lot of room behind. Push in the clutch and brake, job done! , 
Second issue the brake lights stopped working. The most likely reason is the switch on the pedal box. You have to take the drivers seat out unless you can squeeze upside down under the steering wheel and reach the switch on top of the pedal box. 
Then  there are several possibilities. The switch needs adjusting, its broken, the wires have come off or the fuse is blown. You can short the wires and the lights should come on. If they don’t the fault is elsewhere. I found my switch was intermittent. The contact gets damaged due to the high current running through it due to the two brake light bulbs. Incidentally I have seen other posts on here saying the switch rotates out of adjustment. Remember there should be a locking nut on the switch, so this should not be possible.
Solution to burned contacts, fit a relay or switch to LED bulbs that use less current. 

[skiing]

I switched mine to LED brake lights to sort this - mine used to burn out fairly regularly... (well it happened I think three times in my ownership)...

[Lotusfab]

Well done, good solution.