My engine removal thread

[silverfrost]

LC i would Personally do what Steve recommends as he would of fitted more of these than anyone on the forum probably.  The downside Lotus has a special tool for this.But lke anything special tools can be homemade   Just needs to be pushed in under equal displaced pressure, so find a flat faced placed circular object to apply a little force to, Clean an very lightly oil the crank with a smear of oil also to stop the lip seal dragging. .  

[Loose Cannon]

Captain Hindsight moment - should have left it alone, but I didn't know what a "good" one looked like. I reckon any leak to the bellhousing was the carrier gasket rather than the actual seal. Had to wait yonks for new main seals to arrive at SJ too....that was probably divine intervention telling me to ignore it and press on. Never mind, here we are.

2nd go....Got it in nice and square, left some weights on top to sop the seal popping up, checked 10 mins later and the casting had popped off the bottom. I don't think Wellseal is going to help in this application at all, and even if I can get it to sit in the carrier on the bench there will be more risk of it popping off when mating the carrier with the block. There was no sign of wellseal on it from the factory; it was flipping well bonded to the carrier though whether that was adhesive or just 20 years of heat cycles I don't know.

Just missed some cheap permabond on Ebay too.

[fjmuurling]

Any pics of the seal?

It should stay in the carrier, however I fitted mine without wellseal.

"Special" tool fpr mounting the carrier with the seal. Just a sheet of plastic (not too thin) cut size. It is for protecting the Lip of the seal when sliding it onto the crankshaft. Furthermore the seal will have some more tension which will help centering the carrier / seal assembly.

 

Just use some wellseal onto both sides of the carrier gasket.

[fjmuurling]

In addition to the above post use also engine oil on the plastic sheet (both sides).

[910Esprit]

Yes, I always use wellseal as  a lubricant/seal when fitting seals.   Wouldn't recommend anaerobic for a rubber/metal combination - although it probably won't do any harm.   What's puzzling me is that the seal body and the housing casting are a parallel push/interference fit, so I can't see how it can pop out when fitted correctly.   Just to echo your own/Sparky's observations - I wouldn't have changed that seal.  After a certain mileage, the seal leaves its own impression on the crank, there is always the risk this may lead to premature seal failure of a new seal in the future, as the new one wont have an identical relationship to the crank wear

[Loose Cannon]

1 hour ago, 910Esprit said:

What's puzzling me is that the seal body and the housing casting are a parallel push/interference fit, so I can't see how it can pop out when fitted correctly.

I can't work that out either neither are deflected. Haven't got a press so I'm going to screw the carrier to a piece of ply and wind the seal into it to be sure it's square. Getting a bit sick of this now, got plenty else to be doing.

Interesting both Freek and Dan recommend oil on the seal lip; another website advises against that specifically saying it promotes later leaks? Just shows there are many differing opinions out there.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Got the seal into the housing via a method described on an Excel restoration blog (that I can't find right now) - anyhow he was having the same trouble as the seal simply would not stay in place with wellseal all round. Gently tapped in halfway dry using the old seal as a cushion, applied a bead of wellseal to the rear, and slowly, gently the rest of the way. By, the bugger was tight. Whole assembly back on with the plastic coke bottle method.

Now the tanks.The passenger side was not too bad except for some localised pitting which could havepin-holed in 5-7 years I reckon.

In this instance it wasn't the dreaded foam that was holding moisture but the U channel of the rubber door seal that is pressed onto the tank flanges.

The passenger tank was stripped and coated with Bilt Hamber, but could I buggery get the drivers side out with the car jacked in the air (whilst doing trailing arms). Anyhow a bit of wrestling got the drivers side out recently (again how does anyone do this job insitu? I reckon you would just destroy the old tank with a jemmy and rely on fitting a new one). This one is notably worse; again not pinholed, but I'm dreaming of those stainless Axminster tanks now. A shame my missus just blew the spare budget on a car for herself yesterday....

Not too bad at first glance;

 

but glad it came out now;

Bearing in mind this car is a bit of a garage queen I'm staggered by how rusty these are. I reckon once the sponge gets wet it never truly dries out. All the way up to pulling them I was tempted just to blast the lot with Dinitrol and get on with something else, but so happy to sort it now. Take note anyone whose car lives outside or hasn't got evidence of a recent change, your tanks will be on borrowed time.

Anyone got any unwanted stainless tanks lying around..?

 

One holdup which definitely wasn't expected was manifold to tank heatshield which pop rivets to the tank well wall and incorporates an upstand to protect the adjacent fibreglass. I don't know what this is made from, some kind of bakelite type stuff. It has been cracked for years, but got worse when I foolishly removed it thinking that the tank had securing bolts underneath it.

We tried drilling it to accept a reinforcing pate but thanks to my ham fisted assistant more lumps cracked off. Recently listed as out of stock at SJ Sportscars I don't know whether to try and patch it up as second hand items will surely be as bad, or stick some modern waffle sandwich type stuff directly to the panel it was protecting. Any ideas or does anyone have a better used one?

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

Looks like it's brittle, if so, then it'll be difficult to repair without risking further shattering or cracking.

If it's obsolete, perhaps an alloy replica, then cover it with some heatshield material front and back.

[Barrykearley]

Those tanks look mint!

i had to use a dustpan and brush to move mine !!

[Loose Cannon]

I know what you mean. The rust is pretty localised but how do you know how much steel thickness you have left? Fibreglass is an option.

Thing is the car is a keeper barring my death, debilitating injury, alzheimers or abject poverty. These tanks have been the worst job ever undertaken on any car, and I never, ever want to see them again.

Plus my (hopefully) grieving widow will get more for the car when her glowing ebay advert mentions lifetime warranted petrol tanks.

Placed my name on Axminster's waiting list but with delivery 2 months away and the guy's order book rammed with Esprit owners plenty of time to make up ones mind.

[Barrykearley]

Chuck the tanks straight in the skip.

repairing a fuel tanks much like patching up a parachute - just ain't worth the risk.

so glad to have hidden my nice new 316ss ones under some plywood in my car never to see the light of day again.....

[Loose Cannon]

Hmm hit another snag today, as usual totally unexpected this post comes with a warning about Flennor bearings...

 

Story goes that after a bit of searching I'd located one of these mythical "Flennor" cambelt tensioner bearings. The reasoning behind using this was partly because it was cheaper and I'm a skinflint, but mostly because there were stories on the web of grumbling SKF items which were allegedly still floating around from a bad batch a couple of years back.

It now looks like these Flennors are a fractionally larger diameter despite being listed, along with many others, as parts alternatives to the SKF. This difference would probably not be an issue on any other model, but the 2.0/GT3 has an additional outer steel shell which the bearing presses into.

I sadly entrusted this job to someone else who has beaten the bearing into the housing with brute force when logic would have suggested taking a breather to find out why. The bearing race has gone stiff so it's obviously useless, but worse is I doubt I can get it out again! The best that can happen is the new bearing is destroyed, but I am seriously concerned for the integrity of the shell. SJ sportscars list the complete unit at an eyewatering £260, prayers are being offered it doesn't get to that.

 

[Chillidoggy]

Looks like the 'abject poverty' isn't too far away? You can't be skimping on the Esprit, it'll bite back!

Have a word with Pete at PNM for bearings.

[silverfrost]

That is bad news on the bearing LC, was it a friend who mashed the bearing on or a company you payed to do the do the job ?  You can tell when a bearing will not go on or not even when some bearings are classed as an interfience fit, you can just tell when it wont go and is doing damage to the bearing. If you payed someone to do this  can you not look at getting some of the cost back at all ?, as the 250 sheets it is going to cost you is fair hit to the wallet for what should of been a simple task, wrong bearing or not 

 

[Loose Cannon]

Regretfully it was my father in law so can't get too stroppy. He is/was a decent dab hand at such matters and he has done us countelss favours over the years. He likes tinkering but as he gets older it's becoming apparent he's breaking as many things as he's mending. "Determined" is a polite description that springs to mind when his temper takes over which I suspect happened here.

It's my own fault ultimately, I've joined a local amateur car restoration club that has a fly press and other such tools that I just haven't taken the time to learn how to use. Considering the need to fabricate a replacement heat shield (they also have metal folding thingies)  a trip down there is well overdue.

[silverfrost]

Oh bugger, best not let him know the cost of the damage, I can see exactly what you mean by determined lol  my own farther could fit a square peg in a round hole, so i avoid his help on anything technical or fiddly these days    Hope you get is sorted , restoration club sounds fab, i have always wanted to try a course on panel making myself  

[Loose Cannon]

Hi all. Need a bit of advice. Decided to fit some RC primary injectors that have been promised for a long time. The old ones were very tired looking, and the rearmost appeared to be leaking and causing the mystery oily buildup at the back of the induction manifold.

Anyhow, I had read some comments that the RCs are shorter than stock, and they are, but they still seem to clamp up nice and tight under the fuel rail.

However I can't get the original 4 clips on (the ones that hold the injectors to the underside of the fuel rail). The slot on the primaries seems at least a couple of millimetres lower than stock, there's no way they will fit. Is it safe to run without or is there an alternative? They do seem a bit belt and braces.

[fjmuurling]

A washer between the fuelrail and the clip?

[Loose Cannon]

Not sure how that will work, I took some pics, I'll try and put them up later (currently locked out of Flickr account)

[Loose Cannon]

Well this feels like archaeology or thread resurrection. A combination of many things means this particular project is still not finished much to my embarrassment. Lack of planning, illness, apathy, so many excuses......not to mention working alone where every misplaced spanner or screw means scrambling out of the engine bay or from under the car....I'm exhausted with it all. The idea was to future proof the car after 13 years of ownership and see it through another 13 years to the next time, but truthfully I don't think I'll be physically capable of this in my 60s!

So just been plodding on happily, weekend to weekend,  people have stopped asking "is it on the road yet" which is nice as that was always annoying. Lots of people wanted to help with "getting the engine back in", the exciting part. Not so many offers to pass spanners at midnight though.

Anyhow a massive psychological barrier was passed a few weeks back when the engine went back in, since then the reassembly has so far gone great, it's so much easier with a clean engine and new rust free fixings, just like at the factory! Of course I jinxed it all by saying that and have had a DISASTER WEEKEND, it's taken until today to pick my chin off the floor and ask for some advice from you all.

1. First I realise somewhat belatedly that the slightly rough looking castng on the outlet port of the aircon compressor actually indicated the threads had sheared off in the fitting. So a job that would have taken half an hour with the engine out is now a bit of a pain. I can get a replacement casting for the old compressor from the states and hopefully replace insitu, unless anyone has a scrap Sanden compressor anywhere for parts?

2. Then I realised I had forgotten to install the primary engine mount heat shield under the nearside chassis leg before dropping the engine in. This normally wouldnt be a biggie, jack up the engine a few mill, whip the bolt out, slide the shield in, bingo. EXCEPT I didn't notice until the engine was lowering that the front pipe of the Alunox manifold wouldn't let me get the chassis bolt in from the top. This is Ian29GTEs picture, I can only assume he bolted up the leg and bolt together after the manifold was fitted;

Thinking fast as the engine was dropping I thought what the hell, Ill just bolt it up from underneath. I mean what could go wrong, after all the gearbox bolts upwards?

Well, it now means I might have to jack the engine up quite a long way to get the "wiggle room" to lower the bolt out from the bottom.

3. On top of this I'm struggling to get the nuts on the radius arm bolts (after sliding in the driveshaft). It looks like the radius arm bolt threads are chewed up from being tapped back and forth through the mounting holes at the end so i can't get the nut on. OK, I thinks, just slide some new bolts in except I realise now the radius arm bolt and engine mount bolt align, WTF Lotus? This is Vulcan Greys shot of how it should look;

Therefore on mine the upstand of upward pointing bolt thread fouls where the radius arm bolt would come out. So if I want to replace the 7/16 radius arm bolts BOTH engine mount bolts are going to have to come out the bottom.

Isn't it amazing how one snap decision can affect so much?

By the way does anyone have any tips on fitting/aligning the radius arm bolts without tapping them through and possibly damaging the thread on the new bolts? Mine weren't seized but they definitely didn't feel "nice coming out or going in.

[Chillidoggy]

In the photo you've posted of my engine/box, I'd bolted up the engine mount, and put the long mount bolt in, before, like you, realising that part of the shield needed to be in there. I didn't discover this until I'd lowered the engine into the bay, so I winched the whole unit up again, unbolted the engine mount from the block (because the bolt is so long it fouled the manifold) popped the shield piece on, and lowered it all again.

It's far easier to replace the radius arm bushes and bolts prior to engine replacement. I used new nuts, bolts and bushes, as they were a pig to remove and I didn't want to have that again. I coated the pivot bolt in anti-seize grease, too. You could try aligning the parts by using a greased-up bolt of the same size with a taper ground on the end. Once lined up, knock that out and replace with your new bolt.

Conventional engineering wisdom says that a bolt will generally face downwards because if the nut falls off, the bolt is retained. Of course that isn't always possible when clearance is a problem, hence the gearbox bolt orientation.

[Loose Cannon]

Perhaps I was a bit hasty taking the engine crane back .

The big engine mount bolts can't go anywhere easily if they drop as they are caught by the chassis trianguilation, one of the reasons I thought I was being clever in my alternative solution to unbolting the whole leg, which is obvious now what should have happened.

The amount of faffing about for that extremely expensive bespoke Alunox manifold is annoying. Although an experienced engineer may have spotted the bolt conflict earlier it should really be part of the (non-existant) instructions that come with it, along with some advice for the almost inevitable heat shield fouling problem.

 

Regarding the radius mounts; before installing the engine I left the long 7/16 bolt in to keep the mount/arm aligned, but without a nut on the end so it could move. I hoped this might reduce the amount of effort I experienced on removing the driveshafts (where I was pulling the arm away from the engine fighting not only the spring but the radius mount rubber). With the bolt tight it was almost impossible on my own to get enough leverage to get the U/Js out the sockets, but by using this method reinstallation was a dream, however I should have replaced the bolts with fresh ones beforehand, my own daft fault.

I like your tip about sliding in a cut bolt to maintain alignment as the old one is withdrawn, will deffo do that. I'm a  bit worried about jacking the engine up too far to do this (and the heat shield), I could always  unbolt the 3 legs, but I put a ton of threadlock in them.

[CHANGES]

9 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

By the way does anyone have any tips on fitting/aligning the radius arm bolts without tapping them through and possibly damaging the thread on the new bolts? Mine weren't seized but they definitely didn't feel "nice coming out or going in.

Hi Mark,

When i do this area , due to 50% of the bolts being seized , I pull the whole arm assembly complete with bush as one.. This involves no faffing with the 7/16 bolt.  Just remove the 2 x M8 bolts..  The second reason for this is the later polly bush which i generally fit ,has a larger diameter sleeve bore in line with the larger diameter bolts on the later Esprits. When the full assemble is removed the early arms can be machined out and the later size bolt and snub washers fitted.. better job all round no sloppy fit.  

Failing that , just slack the M8's and the arm assembly will twist enough to allow easy fit without the hammer..  

[Loose Cannon]

Thanks. Mine is a 1997 build so I assumed 7/16 UNF as per the manual.

I wasn't aware leter cars changed in this regard, presume that would be up M12 or larger?

[Loose Cannon]

Fitting up the new stainless gearbox translators it looks like the thread to one of the big exhaust carrier bolts has stripped the threads. With 7 other bolts holding it in place it doesn't appear too critical so looking at some Loctite Formathread and a new bolt.

However the parts manual states these to be an "MS x 115". What on earth is an "MS" thread? Other bolts on the carrier are labelled "MB" thread. Any google searches just come back with info on Multiple Sclorosis!