S4S Ecu MK6-code?

[pan]

Hello all,

today I changed the OEM chip to chip#6 by Puk, There is a sticker "MK6" on the OEM chip. 

What does it mean? Does it contain the S4S-MK6-code?I never hear about the MK6-code, I just hear the MK5-code. The production number of my S4S is almost the last S4S produced by lotus.

Does anyone have idea about the chip?

[sailorbob]

I would not recommend using the PUK chip #'6 as they claim it runs 1.25 bar of boost which, when the MAP sensor can only measure up to ~2.07 bar absolute, is not not a good idea.

What is the "catch" code of your ecu and the PROM ID of the original chip?

[pan]

I didnt remove the blue cover..but I could see the whole chip though the hole of the blue cover...it has only MK6.

where can I see the "catch" code from the ecu?

All I want is the low-end torque for better daily driving...which chip do you recommend?

11 minutes ago, sailorbob said:

I would not recommend using the PUK chip #'6 as they claim it runs 1.25 bar of boost which, when the MAP sensor can only measure up to ~2.07 bar absolute, is not not a good idea.

What is the "catch" code of your ecu and the PROM ID of the original chip?

All I want is the low end torque..which chip is the best?

[sailorbob]

There is a white label on the ecu with a bar code at the bottom, the "catch" code is the four letters in the top right corner.

I wouldn't use a chip beyond the #3 "high torque" version.

[pan]

I planned to buy Chip#3 before, but I chose the chip#6 finally.

Both of #3 and #6 can increase the low end torque, right?

I can't be sure which one can increase the torque more.

[Chillidoggy]

So you changed your original chip to one you know nothing about? Are you serious?

[pan]

5 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

So you changed your original chip to one you know nothing about? Are you serious?

I just read the commands from the forums and LEW.

I still can't get the answer about which one can increase the torque more.

[pan]

But after testing my S4s today, I do know now is Chip#6 give a better torque than the OEM one and it gives out a crazy power after 3000rpm.

To avoid the tires spinning, I plan to change 315 tire with an addition  of 0.5J to the outer lips of the wheels

[sailorbob]

I have not seen the chip #6 code so I cannot compare it to the stock code or chip #3. Comparing the wastegate dutycycle on the stock S4S chip to chip #3 you find:

0 - 3000 rpm - dutycycle generally reduced.

3000 - 5000 rpm - dutycycle generally increased.

5000 - 7200 rpm - dutycycle generally unchanged

[sailorbob]

Chip #6 may give more power but since the ecu doesn't know how much boost there is above approximately 2 bar absolute it cannot calculate the fuelling or spark timing accurately.

[pan]

1 hour ago, sailorbob said:

There is a white label on the ecu with a bar code at the bottom, the "catch" code is the four letters in the top right corner.

I wouldn't use a chip beyond the #3 "high torque" version.

I try to take a photo of the catch code this week.

 

26 minutes ago, sailorbob said:

I have not seen the chip #6 code so I cannot compare it to the stock code or chip #3. Comparing the wastegate dutycycle on the stock S4S chip to chip #3 you find:

0 - 3000 rpm - dutycycle generally reduced.

3000 - 5000 rpm - dutycycle generally increased.

5000 - 7200 rpm - dutycycle generally unchanged

I want to know the parameters of #3 and #6. It may help which one is suitable for my need.

but I don't know where I can find them.

21 minutes ago, sailorbob said:

Chip #6 may give more power but since the ecu doesn't know how much boost there is above approximately 2 bar absolute it cannot calculate the fuelling or spark timing accurately.

Yes, you are right.

when I changed from 2nd gear to 3rd above 5000rpm. It had a big "bang" sound from the exhaust..it happened 2 times during the testing.

is it because of the incorrect sparking timing?

[Barrykearley]

Sounds like unburnt fuel going straight into a hot exhaust.......

[Jacques]

Pan,

What model Esprit do you have and what year?

If it is say an SE, and you install the highest possible chip, then be prepared to go all the way to make it run, or swap it to a lower model. Probably the lower #3 chip as the others mentioned. If you go for #6, you must look at it as a package - turbo, fuelpump, fuel pressure regulator, injectors, clutch etc. Also below #6, it would be good to take a close look at other components. Not an Esprit, but when I did my Golf engine many years ago, I took it apart and boiled it, ball blasted it, polished the pistons, conrods, crankshaft and much more, to obtain stability and high revs.

But it really depends what you want to obtain with your engine? For example, if you want an engine suitable for street driving, or for example an engine for trackdays, or even racing? If you want for example a street engine, you may want a lower number chip, a slightly bigger turbo and a few other items such as a free flow exhause, free flow catalyser and a tubular manifold. Those exhaust Things alone, gives you more power, more torque and better spool up, over the stock components. Then add the turbo, chip and fuelpump etc, and it Begins to be a willing engine, without loosing streetability.

Loosing some weight on the car is also free power  And there are many kilos to be lost, without loosing it's looks and form. Then comes suspension, bushings and brakes etc. Or may be somewhat alone on this, but I prefer bigger brakes and better suspension over more horses. Or at least before more power. Forgive me my ignorance, but since I don't know, maybe you have already done those tings?

Just my take on the matter, but interesting to hear what you do, and I will surely follow this thread

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[sailorbob]

1 hour ago, pan said:

I want to know the parameters of #3 and #6. It may help which one is suitable for my need. But I don't know where I can find them.

You could try asking PUK, maybe they will tell you.

[pan]

On 30 May 2016 at 04:44, Jacques said:

Pan,

What model Esprit do you have and what year?

If it is say an SE, and you install the highest possible chip, then be prepared to go all the way to make it run, or swap it to a lower model. Probably the lower #3 chip as the others mentioned. If you go for #6, you must look at it as a package - turbo, fuelpump, fuel pressure regulator, injectors, clutch etc. Also below #6, it would be good to take a close look at other components. Not an Esprit, but when I did my Golf engine many years ago, I took it apart and boiled it, ball blasted it, polished the pistons, conrods, crankshaft and much more, to obtain stability and high revs.

But it really depends what you want to obtain with your engine? For example, if you want an engine suitable for street driving, or for example an engine for trackdays, or even racing? If you want for example a street engine, you may want a lower number chip, a slightly bigger turbo and a few other items such as a free flow exhause, free flow catalyser and a tubular manifold. Those exhaust Things alone, gives you more power, more torque and better spool up, over the stock components. Then add the turbo, chip and fuelpump etc, and it Begins to be a willing engine, without loosing streetability.

Loosing some weight on the car is also free power  And there are many kilos to be lost, without loosing it's looks and form. Then comes suspension, bushings and brakes etc. Or may be somewhat alone on this, but I prefer bigger brakes and better suspension over more horses. Or at least before more power. Forgive me my ignorance, but since I don't know, maybe you have already done those tings?

Just my take on the matter, but interesting to hear what you do, and I will surely follow this thread

Kind regards,

Jacques.

Mine is S4S(non-USA) 96, a Alunox manifold, quicksilver twin exhaust(without silencer), OEM cat without core(it was found broken, so I remove the core all) and K&N filter. 

My car is for street drive only.

I know the exhaust and the cat may discrease the low end torque, so Alunox manifold and Puk chip are my choices to compensate the   loss of low end torque.

My S4S has bouncing speedometer issue and brake issue(as same as this topichttp://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f164/brakes-not-releasing-1995-esprit-304362/#/forumsite/20667/topics/304362?)page=1

For the bouncing speedometer, I already replaced the speedometer and vehicle speed sensor(the actual speed can be read by freescan), but is still no help...the speedometer is bouncing when start the car and sometimes it is bouncing or drop to zero during driving.

do you have any idea about that?

[sailorbob]

If the vehicle speed reading is OK in Freescan then that suggests your speedometer is faulty or there's a problem with the wiring from the ecu to the speedometer. Presumably your speedometer is the electronic version and not the mechanical version.

[pan]

3 hours ago, sailorbob said:

If the vehicle speed reading is OK in Freescan then that suggests your speedometer is faulty or there's a problem with the wiring from the ecu to the speedometer. Presumably your speedometer is the electronic version and not the mechanical version.

My speedometer is new...but it acts as same as the old one...

I cannot find out the ECU output pins to the speedometer from the manual...I just can find out the ECU pins where vehicle speed sensor is connected to.(J3C2 and J3C8)

[sailorbob]

The electronic speedometer gets its signal from the ecu pin J2B8.

[Jacques]

Okay, it sounds as you have already made what you can for the complete exhaust.

You can take a look at my thread and read what happened when I measured mine with exhaust mods almost similar to yours.

Personally, I wouldn't use chip  #6, but Work around it from a lower # chip. I feel the high ones needs other injectors, bigger turbo etc.

I think I may have read on here, that a few have experienced a dead turbo with an extreme chip only. It may not be correct, but I think it was something about forcing the turbo to Work outside it's area, eg. like surge and choke. A bov can help prevent surge. Do you have a bov installed? The "relatively" small turbo may come into choking as it reaches it's limit for efficiency, say around 58% for Garrett models, and there may be an obs here to see what chip #6 demands. Since I only know very Little about these aspects, I am sure someone else on here, can chime in with some good advice, to prevent damaging the engine for either turbo or going lean or something else.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[pan]

On June 1, 2016 at 02:45, sailorbob said:

The electronic speedometer gets its signal from the ecu pin J2B8.

thank you so much.

I guess it is a bad ground connection of speedometer.

Do you know where the earth braid for the speedometer is ?

[pan]

On June 1, 2016 at 04:56, Jacques said:

Okay, it sounds as you have already made what you can for the complete exhaust.

You can take a look at my thread and read what happened when I measured mine with exhaust mods almost similar to yours.

Personally, I wouldn't use chip  #6, but Work around it from a lower # chip. I feel the high ones needs other injectors, bigger turbo etc.

I think I may have read on here, that a few have experienced a dead turbo with an extreme chip only. It may not be correct, but I think it was something about forcing the turbo to Work outside it's area, eg. like surge and choke. A bov can help prevent surge. Do you have a bov installed? The "relatively" small turbo may come into choking as it reaches it's limit for efficiency, say around 58% for Garrett models, and there may be an obs here to see what chip #6 demands. Since I only know very Little about these aspects, I am sure someone else on here, can chime in with some good advice, to prevent damaging the engine for either turbo or going lean or something else.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

I have to admit that Chip#6 is good, but i don't always push the engine in high rev and i am scared to damage the engine, the turbo or the clutch by pushing the engine too hard, so it is a waste of using Chip#6.

so if Chip#3 has a better low-end torque than Chip#6, I will change to Chip#3.

I always wonder that Chip#3 maybe can give a dramatic change or increase a lot of torque for some esprit models(e.g. S4, SE..), but can it still give a lot of torque to S4s comparing to the original S4S chip? as the original S4s chip is already more aggressive than that of S4 or SE.

On May 30, 2016 at 01:56, sailorbob said:

I would not recommend using the PUK chip #'6 as they claim it runs 1.25 bar of boost which, when the MAP sensor can only measure up to ~2.07 bar absolute, is not not a good idea.

What is the "catch" code of your ecu and the PROM ID of the original chip?

Sorry, i didn't  have time to take a photo of the catch code last week, i will try to take the photo this week

[Chillidoggy]

From the PUK website:-

Chip #0 to #3 can be used safely on stock engines.

All our chips can be safely used on bone stock engines.

 

[Jacques]

I made a Little experiment the other day. On my stock SE (1990) I installed a S300-3 chip. Only mods are the full exhaust system.

Took a long drive to releard the ecm, and then took another drive to experience what it does. It flies. Better response and better pull. More power all over. But at a Price. The heat generated in the standard turbo is too high as it is now working outside it's normal lmits. So boost is rolled off after very short time. The completely standard S4s setup can boost for longer, I am very sure. This calls for a bigger turbo, more flow, less heat. And some exhaustwrap on the tubular manifold. Asap. And possibly a higher fuelpressure to ensure enough fuel at high revs.

To get to the point. There is only so much one can do with the standard parts. As you have a S4s, which is already upgradedcompared to a SE, and you have also installed the full exhaust system, the more open filter, and you want a street car, there are some other Things to think about, if you want to continue Down that route.

I would say first get a dyno session on your car  with it standard, that is the S4s chip and the mods to exhaust you have, plus the K&N filter. This way you know your baseline, and will not only have a feeling of what's going on, but document it. To my surprise, I lost 20Nm on the alunox manifold, but will gain that back later on, as it's a synergy effect). Remember some giant fans on the dyno.

Then I would play with making the ram air mod to the intke hoses. Watch out for rain, as that Water drain is somewhat removed. But you gain a better, more direct intake, with less resistance. Take a drive and see what it does, apart from sound. Sound is no speed, just an imigination.

Then I'd think about the flow in the intake plenum. For example smoothing out the path. It's been described various Places. And the plenum spacer ring mod. Then go dyno it Again.

Then I would play with the S4s chip version with more pull. Dyno it.

Then I'd think about slightly larger turbo, maybe even one with no or just Little parasittic drag, so I would look into one with ceramic ball bearings. They spin up real fast, hence the slightly bigger turbo without suffering too much lag. Go to a turbo shop and try one out with the hand, and then spin your own turbo. There's a big difference.

Or you could renovate the one you have, and get a 360 degree bearing in it, as they support better are stronger, and last longer and can take more load.

And get a BOV to ease the load on the turbo, so it doesn't spin down so hard. I was suggested to actually install a BOV close to the turbo, rather than on top of the intake where they normally are installed on your model car. Dyno it. And they help the turbo spin up faster on the NeXT gear, because it's not been slowed down so much, as without.

I would then but lots of spark plugs and mark them and install them to be optimal. I know some say it's old school, but  will do that myself. And avoid iridium etc. Just standard plugt. And make sure your coils and leads are up to scratch.

Then I'd install a second or jsut larger Electric chargecooler pump, to the one you have.

Then I'd install 3 SPAL fans instead of the standard ones. They use less current, and move a lot more air.

Track day car, I'd go for better clutch and gearshift and stronger gearbox.

In any case, I'd install LOTAC bushings all over, to stabilise the chassis, less movement, and stiff arb bushings (purple). And wrap the tubular manifold in exhaust wrap as it's thin stainless steel, and dissipate much heat quickly, righ up on your chargecooler. And isolate the underside of the chargecooler as well.

Being a S4s, I suppose you already have the detatchable front chassis bracing  and the gearshift chassis stiffenig plate as per Sport300.

That's what I would do. Street car.
 

I am sure many on here will be able to give you more and better advice or suggestions. I am just a measely beginner on Lotus cars, but that's what I would do.

Kind regards,

Jacques. (now onto installing a bigger turbo   )

 

 

[pan]

26 minutes ago, Jacques said:

I made a Little experiment the other day. On my stock SE (1990) I installed a S300-3 chip. Only mods are the full exhaust system.

Took a long drive to releard the ecm, and then took another drive to experience what it does. It flies. Better response and better pull. More power all over. But at a Price. The heat generated in the standard turbo is too high as it is now working outside it's normal lmits. So boost is rolled off after very short time. The completely standard S4s setup can boost for longer, I am very sure. This calls for a bigger turbo, more flow, less heat. And some exhaustwrap on the tubular manifold. Asap. And possibly a higher fuelpressure to ensure enough fuel at high revs.

To get to the point. There is only so much one can do with the standard parts. As you have a S4s, which is already upgradedcompared to a SE, and you have also installed the full exhaust system, the more open filter, and you want a street car, there are some other Things to think about, if you want to continue Down that route.

I would say first get a dyno session on your car  with it standard, that is the S4s chip and the mods to exhaust you have, plus the K&N filter. This way you know your baseline, and will not only have a feeling of what's going on, but document it. To my surprise, I lost 20Nm on the alunox manifold, but will gain that back later on, as it's a synergy effect). Remember some giant fans on the dyno.

Then I would play with making the ram air mod to the intke hoses. Watch out for rain, as that Water drain is somewhat removed. But you gain a better, more direct intake, with less resistance. Take a drive and see what it does, apart from sound. Sound is no speed, just an imigination.

Then I'd think about the flow in the intake plenum. For example smoothing out the path. It's been described various Places. And the plenum spacer ring mod. Then go dyno it Again.

Then I would play with the S4s chip version with more pull. Dyno it.

Then I'd think about slightly larger turbo, maybe even one with no or just Little parasittic drag, so I would look into one with ceramic ball bearings. They spin up real fast, hence the slightly bigger turbo without suffering too much lag. Go to a turbo shop and try one out with the hand, and then spin your own turbo. There's a big difference.

Or you could renovate the one you have, and get a 360 degree bearing in it, as they support better are stronger, and last longer and can take more load.

And get a BOV to ease the load on the turbo, so it doesn't spin down so hard. I was suggested to actually install a BOV close to the turbo, rather than on top of the intake where they normally are installed on your model car. Dyno it. And they help the turbo spin up faster on the NeXT gear, because it's not been slowed down so much, as without.

I would then but lots of spark plugs and mark them and install them to be optimal. I know some say it's old school, but  will do that myself. And avoid iridium etc. Just standard plugt. And make sure your coils and leads are up to scratch.

Then I'd install a second or jsut larger Electric chargecooler pump, to the one you have.

Then I'd install 3 SPAL fans instead of the standard ones. They use less current, and move a lot more air.

Track day car, I'd go for better clutch and gearshift and stronger gearbox.

In any case, I'd install LOTAC bushings all over, to stabilise the chassis, less movement, and stiff arb bushings (purple). And wrap the tubular manifold in exhaust wrap as it's thin stainless steel, and dissipate much heat quickly, righ up on your chargecooler. And isolate the underside of the chargecooler as well.

Being a S4s, I suppose you already have the detatchable front chassis bracing  and the gearshift chassis stiffenig plate as per Sport300.

That's what I would do. Street car.
 

I am sure many on here will be able to give you more and better advice or suggestions. I am just a measely beginner on Lotus cars, but that's what I would do.

Kind regards,

Jacques. (now onto installing a bigger turbo   )

 

 

Thank you for your advise.

I do feel that there is some torque lost from midrange to high rev after installing the Alunox manifold too, I don't know why. is it because the length of downpipes of alunox manifold are longer than the OEM's? 

and today I found out that the intake hose drops off from the side of silencer too..

3 hours ago, ian29gte said:

From the PUK website:-

Chip #0 to #3 can be used safely on stock engines.

All our chips can be safely used on bone stock engines.

 

I also read this from PUK website, but my S4S is not young anymore...20 years...

There is no shop with Dyno in my city

[Jacques]

You should go for an experienced dyno operator, someone WHO does not fiddle with the temp and humidity settings etc. so you get consistent trutable readouts. USe the same guy and same dyno every time. I do that. The loss of midrange torque is also exactly what i got.

The exhaust wrap is highly recommened by the dyno operator I used. Sould save some serious heat on to the chargecooler.

I'll try to setup some sort of measuring the temperature differences on various setups. Need a probe for my Fluke, So I can test while driving. I have a guntype cheap thing for being stationary, but the Fluke is much more precise and can measure higher temperatures. A few well heat isolated items here and there should help things too. I will considder a larger chargecooler later on as well. Not the alunox one, though.

Not sure I understood what it is about the intake hose you mentioned?

I think the alunox exhaust manifold is made to be optimum of what can be done in this area. So, taking full advantage of it, would probably mean tuning the engine, hence my comment about the synergy effect. The sum of several thing done, is higher than the sum of the performance of each thing added.

Let us know what you find and decide.

As soon as my back is usable Again (got a real sore back yesterday evening), I'm off to install the bigger turbo. I'll post what I find in "Little Red Riding Hood", not to clog up your own thread.

Happy hunting

Jacques.