Komotec 460 or SSC TVS1900?

[rasasoufe]

On 20-2-2017 at 12:56, toshers said:

I have the TVS1900 going into my car quite literally now! Will pick it back up from the shop on Friday and will share my thoughts here ?

And... can you allready share your thoughts with us? Do you like it?

[toshers]

It's a different car for sure! Big gains everywhere that are noticeable. The 0-60 sprint has definitely tumbled.

My plan is to get it on a RR for a power run to confirm what the car is now producing. This will be in around 4-5 weeks.

Pleased so far though

[Jiaim]

Hello I joined to share something I figured comparing pictures. Someone talked about the SSC vs the JUBU conversion. It seems they don't use the same supercharger SSC would be the TVS1900 and the JUBU the TVS2300.

That could explain the problems using a 2300cc software on the 1900cc supercharger ?

Here is the SSC from a member from here : 

Here is the JUBU from their website :

We can see the bigger blower vs the plastic trims around, shorter snoot. I count 17 "waffle" count vs 15 on the SSC.

Comparing with a Harrop 2300 kit picture, I count the same 17 waffle count on the tvs2300 and 15 on the tvs1900.

So the JUBU could move even more air but it may be overkill.

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by Jiaim

[The Pits]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

A rare chance for some one-upmanship over Gary.

 

[Seriouslylotus]

6 hours ago, Jiaim said:

Hello I joined to share something I figured comparing pictures. Someone talked about the SSC vs the JUBU conversion. It seems they don't use the same supercharger SSC would be the TVS1900 and the JUBU the TVS2300.

That could explain the problems using a 2300cc software on the 1900cc supercharger ?

Here is the SSC from a member from here : 

Here is the JUBU from their website :

We can see the bigger blower vs the plastic trims around, shorter snoot. I count 17 "waffle" count vs 15 on the SSC.

Comparing with a Harrop 2300 kit picture, I count the same 17 waffle count on the tvs2300 and 15 on the tvs1900.

So the JUBU could move even more air but it may be overkill.

 

Doesn't come with a map does it?

Looks like you also need the jubu ECU and then find someone with enough skills to map it properly..... I'll have the SSC thanks.

[550superfast]

I've had the SSC kit fitted a few months now and covered about 1500 miles. In order to compare results you have to make the leap of faith and believe whichever rolling road you are on - as we can see from the dyno thread this does not appear to be  a precise science, you also have to make an assumption for drive train losses if using a hub dyno which is what I ended up doing.

My car is making the same power as the EX460 kit up to about 5800rpm, then the EX460 romps away - torque is more closely matched, making more than the EX460 up to 5200rpm.

Headline figures are 407bhp and 487NM torque. SSC are keen to say that figures are not what the upgrade is all about, but I was inquisitive. They prefer to talk of real world performance.

Driving now is a more noisy affair, with supercharger whine and intake noise - some hissing and sucking and low speeds. The car feels much much quicker than it was, and more responsive, but I have yet to get a dry track day to fully test - hence the delay in posting much up. After Spa in late May I hope to have a better idea of just how good this upgrade is.

SSC were good at answering my 100's of questions and Hofmans did a great job of the install - I am a happy customer.

 

[NW76]

@550superfast cool ?? sounds great!!! Thanks for keeping us posted.

487 NM torque is great ... more than my EX460 makes ... wow ... 

You have a seriously fast car now with that level of power, your low weight and the Cup R aero ... must be one of the fastest street legal Exiges out there!

Would be very interesting to have a 380 Cup out with us May 30 in Spa ... 

[The Pits]

Not so nice for the guy who just spent £85k on his new ultimate Exige! The factory 375bhp car can't hope to compare unless Komotec and SSC are living in a fantasy land.

You will always win the drag race. The interesting thing for everyone else interested is how long your gearboxes last. If Lotus are being too conservative you guys will be the first to know. If Lotus are torque limiting the gearboxes for good reason, ditto. Keep us posted. I'm sure the extra performance is worth a gearbox should the worst happen.

Thanks for the update Gary, much appreciated. That is a lot of power and torque for a car as light as the Exige. You can expect your laptimes to tumble. I look forward to reading your track findings.

[NW76]

One thing is for sure: w/o a gearbox oil cooler the gearbox wont last very long with track use. Pretty sure about that.

I now have the cooler. How far that will bring me?!? We will see - I keep my fingers crossed.

I will also do more regular gearbox oil changes.

I am pretty sure though it wont last forever - if it makes 2-3 seasons I am ok...

[550superfast]

7 hours ago, The Pits said:

The factory 375bhp car can't hope to compare unless Komotec and SSC are living in a fantasy land.

 

How do you mean if Komotec and SSC are in fantasy land? Sorry I don't follow, do you mean with overstated power and torque claims?

We will see what happens with the gearbox - at the moment I feel it is risk worth taking, but I have also added a cooler, that went on at the same time as the power upgrade, I also change oil in the box and engine on a very regular basis. I have not heard of any failures, just one with a few issues. The black Komotec car is going hard with tens of thousands of KM after their upgrade.

[The Pits]

In the unlikely event that a factory 375bhp car can match a KT430 in a straight line then I'd have to conclude that the KT car isn't making 430bhp. I think we can rule out the possibility that the factory car is secretly making over 400bhp which means KT 'fantasy land' is the more likely explanation. This is all IF your car and Norbert's car doesn't romp off into the distance which is what I would expect. As it stands I don't think a 375bhp car will put up much of a fight. 340bhp per ton vs 390! I hope that's clearer. I'm inclined to believe KT and SSC until proven otherwise.

How does the SSC 1900 upgrade perform after 5800rpm Gary? Near 65bhp is a big step and must still be produced at 7000rpm or somewhere around there I would imagine? Does it tail off noticeably after 6000? Or worth revving all the way? With so much mid-range torque it may feel like it's tailing off more than it actually is (i.e. Still making way more power than the stock engine at all rpm).

[550superfast]

I can only talk of my experience, I am quoting figures I have got on a hub dyno at TDI in Thurrock, Essex, not what SSC are quoting. I have no information on how Komotec get their figures other then watching their You tube vids of power runs, I don't know how lean they run and what is done to the long term and short term fuel trims etc. From my experience getting numbers form this car pre and post upgrade is not easy or consistent - in fact I think it will be a long time before I go on a rolling road or dyno again. This is why I am slow with my opinions, I need a dry track day in order to see where it is - but from the drivers seat it is great and I am happy with the upgrade - performance has certainly increased, no DPM issues noted.

The torque comes in very early, and peak is at about 4500. Max power was recorded at 6650, I am fairly sure that the car is going into touring mode and getting an early rev limit as I was on a hub dyno (2wd). On road in sport or race modes it is happy and willing to rev out past 7000 and pulls cleanly all the way through the rev band. Maybe at 7000 it makes more, maybe the figures are not right and it makes less - I don't know.

Lap times will paint a clearer picture than any dyno or rolling road and I will be comparing these over the summer.

[alias23]

15 minutes ago, 550superfast said:

Lap times will paint a clearer picture than any dyno or rolling road and I will be comparing these over the summer.

THIS 

[NW76]

For the EX460 I can clearly see that I felt a significant performance gain before / after.

Also usually a stock 350 / v6 is clearly slower on a straight line on track than I am in the EX460. I do not remember any instance were I met a 350 / V6 on track that could keep up on a straight line. The EX460 makes 100-200 km/h now in less than 7 seconds. Which imho is not bad at all ;-) ... before I must have been at least 2 seconds slower...

Does the car really deliver 460 hp ... I think it does, but in the end what counts for me, is the increased fun I have with the higher performance the car now delivers al over the rev range.

No issues with the DPM so far. It continues to work perfectly fine. The only concern for me is the gearbox. I quickly realized that a EX460 Kit w/o the gearbox oil cooler is not a good idea, and therefore added the cooler over the winter.

By the way: just found this -->

  

 

[toshers]

I'll give an update on my upgrade path soon. I'm booking the car in to have replacement manifolds fitted, remove the cat (possibly fit a high flow replacement), and have the car custom mapped. I might take the path where I fit a custom engine management ECU. A gearbox oil cooler will be popped in too.

We have a company in Scotland who can now live map the Lotus ECU but not sure if I can openly post who on here?!?

Obviously the car will be on a 4 wheel RR for the mapping work so I'll post some figures when complete. This will be in approx. 4 weeks as the upgrade will be undertaken while I am away for work.

I had the car at Knockhill a few weeks ago, first track time since fitting the TVS1900. It's a huge difference

[550superfast]

@toshers Sounds interesting, I will watch this space with interest, hope all goes well.

[Swiss380Cup]

The TVS 1900 is really appealing ....doesn't come cheap either compared to KT, but looks less invasive IMHO.... pretty much interested in having feed backs from those who fitted it in their cars.... Australia isn't really next door.....neither is the UK for us on the continent....thought a road trip ?? - ?? is not completely out of the question.....the September Lotus festival is on top of my list...so a trip to a professional shop for installation would be nice too  

[550superfast]

1 hour ago, Swiss360Cup said:

The TVS 1900 is really appealing ....doesn't come cheap either compared to KT,

SSC TVS1900 is less money than EX460 kit and about the same as EX430

[Swiss380Cup]

Yes, right. It really seems an interesting solution. Keep us posted about the results......

[550superfast]

 

[Swiss380Cup]

Great VIDEO... what system do you use to collect data and embed it into videos ?

[550superfast]

Garmin Virb Ultra 30 with a bluetooth ODBII dongle - cheap for what it does

[Swiss380Cup]

Indeed it looks like a € 3k system....... what OBDII dongle ? I've got 3....but none of them seems to have all this data .....

 

[550superfast]

Happy to sell you one for 3K... 

Make sure WIFI IS TURNED OFF

Vgate iCar2 BLE 4.0 Mini OBD2 Car Diagnostic Scan Tool for iOS iPhone iPad PC/Android with Switch Auto Sleep (Black)

[MartynB]

How do you tell the VIRB where the start/finish line is? Do you preset it along with the track layout, or do it on the fly?