Turbo suction collapses air hose

[Stefan Ertler]

Hiya all,

Just a quick info to what happened to me on the weekend.

A few months ago I had a new turbo installed ( Garret GT 3076R ) and so far the car ran just perfect.

On sunday I took her or a quick spin to Luxembourg ( cheap petrol ) and did not recognise my car anymore.

As I entered the acceleration lane to speed up, the boost literally collapsed and fell back to .5.

It never went above 1 bar, but funny enough, as soon as I eased off the accelerator, the pressure gauge shot up to 1.5.

A close examination of this phenomena showed a collapsed air hose, just about 15 cm before connecting to the turbo.

Came out to be that my hose was already old and the wire fatigued that the bigger turbo was able to create that much suction

that in combination with the partial restriction of my standard air filter system, the hose could not withstand the negative pressure.

I have now decided to get a Viper intake kit from Pipercross and change over to a airbox system.

This should produce even more bhp, increase the torque and let the turbo spool up faster.

Just thought I share this with you as it tells me that once one changes one piece in a system there is a good chance that other pieces need to be changed

too, to make the system work again.

Let your turbos breathe freely

Stefan

[CNH]

I have seen the inner liner of the hose come off and clog the intake hose on an an early G body turbo.

[Drfatz]

Stefan,

I just installed a GT3071R into my Esprit and am currently building a new intake setup for it. I have been looking for something like the Viper intake for some time. I was wondering are you going to custom order one for an Esprit or are you going to simply buy one for another car and "make" it work? Either way keep me posted for this project is coming up quick on my list of things to do!

Cheers,

Graham

[red vtec]

you get this happening on LR defenders. the pipes delaminate, the fix is to fit silicon hoses. i.e samco

[CarlC]

Chris,

Are you talking about the right hose here...?

The hose from the air filter to the turbo is fairly large, 10cm running down about 6cm and nearly 3ft in length IIRC. It is also wire re-enforced. There is a pile of wires and crap that tend to sit on this hose applying external pressure causing it sometimes to be squashed, especially if the engines been worked on and it hasnt quite been put back properly. Would a silcon replacement stand up to that at that sort of size?

you get this happening on LR defenders. the pipes delaminate, the fix is to fit silicon hoses. i.e samco

[red vtec]

Do you have a pic of it? I know this happens on the LR as the pipe can delaminate and the inner can collapse and cuts the flow.

This is what I have read:

'Normal' hoses are made using rubber and/or plastics (usually with some type of fibreous reinforcing to stop them expanding or splitting). These are carbon-based, and the molecules can be broken down by reaction with oils and chemicals, leading them to fail or (in the case of turbo hoses) become elastic and expand under pressure.

Silicone hoses are made with silicon (the element) polymers. These are far less reactive than carbon, and therefore more chemically stable. Also, Silicone is able to withstand very high temperatures (up to about 500c), so is more suited to use in the under-bonnet environment (especially near the turbo and exhaust.

Apart from lasting longer, not melting, and with generally fewer problems, Silicone hoses will swell less under pressure (when the turbo kicks in) so you will get slightly less turbo lag (not sure if its enough to notice though).

Would I have this pipe on a 1988 Esprit Turbo? as I'll try and have a look tomorrow. I hope I'm correct in what I'm saying

Edited August 21, 2007 by red vtec

[Stefan Ertler]

Stefan,

I just installed a GT3071R into my Esprit and am currently building a new intake setup for it. I have been looking for something like the Viper intake for some time. I was wondering are you going to custom order one for an Esprit or are you going to simply buy one for another car and "make" it work? Either way keep me posted for this project is coming up quick on my list of things to do!

Cheers,

Graham

Graham

It will be a bit of both. My garage, Ramspott & Brandt are in the process to modify a standard Viper system to fit the Esprit.

If all goes well it will be installed next week and I shall provide you with all details.

What do you think of your Turbo ? I was blown away by the performance spectrum, when I first drove it. The power band seems to have no end and I always have the feeling as if the engine would just love to rev beyond the 7400 mark.

Only downside at the moment is, that it takes until 3800 rpm before full boost sets in. Maybe my exhaust casing is too large but I will see what happenes with the Viper.

It actually should go down, due to the unrestricted airflow. ( what size casings are you using ?)

One thing I learned though and Demot o'Hare describes it very detailed on his website, is that the less restriction the airflow to the turbo has, the more performance it can develop.

Speak soon

Stefan

Chris,

Are you talking about the right hose here...?

The hose from the air filter to the turbo is fairly large, 10cm running down about 6cm and nearly 3ft in length IIRC. It is also wire re-enforced. There is a pile of wires and crap that tend to sit on this hose applying external pressure causing it sometimes to be squashed, especially if the engines been worked on and it hasnt quite been put back properly. Would a silcon replacement stand up to that at that sort of size?

Hiya Carl

You are right, in the case of the Esprit there is a lot of wiring, hoses etc in the area of the air hose. But at least im my case, the crap laying on the hose is too loose to produce such force to collapse the wiring re-enforcement of the air hose. A normal S4 or even a Sport 300 Turbo is too weak in terms of vacuum it produces. This GT3076 R obviously is able to do it. I have spoken to 2 knowledgable sources and both have confirmed it. Of course it will not happen to a intact air hose where the wiring is still good and strong, but in my case it was old and fatiqued.

I try to take some photos later today to show you all.

Cheers

Stefan

Update

Here are the photos

Edited August 22, 2007 by Fandango

[bosbon_be]

To get such a deep vacuum that the hose collapses is not only a sign that your hose is in a bad shape. Getting vacuum before the turbo is not good when you

[docf]

You can fit a really big K&N cone filter into the factory airbox. That plus the "ram air" mod should be the optimum setup. This is on my list of projects for next week.

Stefan,

I just installed a GT3071R into my Esprit and am currently building a new intake setup for it. I have been looking for something like the Viper intake for some time. I was wondering are you going to custom order one for an Esprit or are you going to simply buy one for another car and "make" it work? Either way keep me posted for this project is coming up quick on my list of things to do!

Cheers,

Graham

[esprits4de]

Hi,Hi, funny as the developement is paralell,

I was too thinking of the piper, untill I saw that the 100 mm is reduced back to 80 again, plus it is expensive as hell...

I have seen a race filter system which is uniformly going 100 mm in and 100 mm out. So ATM I am going to draw up a prototype system, going 100mm from the intake to the filter and then to the turbo and just then reducing to 80 mm at the turbo.

IHO that should have some sort of advantage to drag on the 80 mm hose the piper uses...AND CHEAPER....

I do not know how fast I will be, we will see......

[Stefan Ertler]

Stefan,

I just installed a GT3071R into my Esprit and am currently building a new intake setup for it. I have been looking for something like the Viper intake for some time. I was wondering are you going to custom order one for an Esprit or are you going to simply buy one for another car and "make" it work? Either way keep me posted for this project is coming up quick on my list of things to do!

Cheers,

Graham

Graham

As promised, I keep you (all) posted on developements.

Dropped off my babe saturday at Ramspott & Brandt to have the Pipercross Viper installed.

Will take a few days, as it calls for some re-arrangement of other components due to it's size. (water reservoir, petrol filter etc)

Some of you have already commented on this.

I have contacted Dermot who was very helpfull in sorting out the air intake nozzle behind the passenger window.

Anyway, here is a first photo of the Viper airbox. As soon as it's in, I let you know.

It will be very interesting to see Olafs solution, as he has his car serviced by the same people as I.

Have a great week

Stefan

[Drfatz]

Right now my car is in the body shop about to get a coat of brand new Calypso Red Unfortunatly I have only driven the car once for about 3 minutes with the new turbo setup before she had to go into the body shop. I should also mentoin that during that 3 minute test run there were several problems with the engine that need sorting. I think for now I may stick with a K&N filter in the air box with the "ram air" mod. However, down the road I fully intend on upgrading my intake to your setup once you have worked out all of the kinks

BTW Since this thread popped up I have been looking around for a better air ducting material for my GT3071R and I came accross this stuff by SAMCO It is their SuperFlex ducting which is metal wire wrapped with fiber reinforced fabric and it is good up to 600 F. Should do the trick nicely and it will look cool!

-Graham

Edited August 27, 2007 by Drfatz