1972 Lotus Europa value

[Cuff4]

My Dad is considering selling his 1972 Lotus Europa and he’s not sure how to value it. 
 

A few details:
1972 Lotus Europa Twin cam
57000 miles from new, first owner from 1972 until 1976 and the second owner (my Dad) from 1976 to present.

It has had a full restoration and the bodywork was done by Mick Miller who my Dad knew well.  The car has been off the road for a few years so will need recommissioning.

I’ve looked on EBay but prices vary a lot. Any advice is much appreciated.

Thank you,

Pete

 

 

[Dave Eds]

I'd be having a chat with Guy Munday if i were you.........

[ZXRRDave]

Oddly enough, the classic car dealer in Diss who posted this on his facebook page as being 'available from him soon' advised me he would be asking £23.5k in as is condition due to the volume of interest he's had in it. He'd be looking for more if he recommissioned it. 

I think that's a little optimistic, especially bearing in mind the Carnival red Special that's been in a dealers in Scotland for the last couple of months for £21950 (albeit with some paint defects that would require respray). As you observe there's a few TC's with large price tags on ebay/Car & Classic etc that have been unsold for some time, as well as some Specials with even larger numbers next to them, although the premium usually carried by specials is fairly good. 

When it comes to auction results it's a little less conclusive. A running and complete car with a retrim and fairly basic respray but slightly chequered history failed to reach reserve in September at ACA in kings lynn at £10750 (reserve was about 14 as far as I could ascertain) and the sales from June to last month have been demonstrating a fall of 10-15% with the cost of living crisis impacting hammer prices. I think Mastersons had a couple of TC's and a S2 last year, with Prices under the 20k mark for them. Similarly a tidy but well used Pistachio green car at a dealer in Hampshire was at £19k from March to June last year before selling (possibly following some negotiation).

Your fathers car is clearly an excellent example, with a history that will definitely increase the value. In recommissioned state I'd estimate that it would comfortably exceed £20k, probably closer to £25k as it would be a usable car in grade 1 condition but usable as such as opposed to a concours show car.

Bearing in mind that as the car has been stood for some time the Achilles heel of the twincam - the water pump - would likely be a necessity for preventative maintenance, but that requires the removal of the engine as it is tight against the cabin bulkhead. This would factor as a consideration of the recommissioning process as it's a faff of a job. (when I had to have my last TC's done in 2010 it was £100 in parts and £1200 in labour unfortunately).

I did enquire as to the car with the dealer in Diss, as I am looking for a running G2/G2+ condition car as a usable classic currently but the condition and history of this car exceeds my current budget (especially if said dealer is expecting the price mentioned above).

[ZXRRDave]

Also possibly of interest is a TC with some modifications (rather ugly arch flares included) in left hand drive is in the Silverstone Auction this weekend, so could contribute to a current valuation.

[Cuff4]

Thank you for the advice. I not clear about why the dealer is offering it as available from him soon. Dad only expressed an interest in selling it, not a commitment to do so.

Dad spent over 30 years doing a nut and bolt restoration on the car. Unfortunately, its completion has come a bit too late for him to really enjoy it. What’s important for me is that he gets fair price for the car.

We’ve discussed getting it recommissioned which Dad is happy to have done prior to sale.

Thanks again,

Pete

 

[Elite 4.9]

I think there is a '74 twincam Europa on bringatrailer.com live auction here in the states. These are timed auctions and I think this one hasn't expired but it will tell you aprox. value this car has. 

 

My brother had a '74 JPS and it was very fun and smoothe riding to drive. One weakness in this engine is the water pumps don't last long and they are difficult to replace one as you have to pull the engine because the pump is right close to the cabin rear window bulkhead. 

[ZXRRDave]

Europa values in the states are a lot less than those over here for some reason. I've seen several pop up over there which are well in budget for me, but none over here.

I think the recommissioning is the soundest approach, then you may be best served by taking it to auction. I noticed yesterday that there's a concours open chequebook restoration europa in the Silverstone sale today as well as the LHD modified one, so that's probably our best benchmark. 

Checking back through Mastersons results shows last April a restored car in a modern colour with minilite wheels hit £20750, which would suggest a figure of £24k-£26k is reasonable for your more original car with its impressive history, depending on the auctioneers.

If you're an east anglian native (I'm making that assumption due to the Diss connection with the dealer - I'm in Wymondham near the factory myself) there's a well attended auction at ACA in Kings Lynn fairly regularly, and there's also a good attendance at the regular ones at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford. 

[Mark030358]

Can you pm me some pictures please.

Hi-Res body, interior, engine bay and front of chassis, I may be interested.

thanks

Mark

[PhilT]

Hi Cuff4,

first I assume you have agreed value insurance from Club Lotus or similar? If not, it costs the subscription and £15. You can work backwards from that valuation. If its all original (especially the interior - steering wheel/ash tray etc etc) with all the correct bits (original wheels) and if your Dad did a good job (and Mick Miller) then that is a rare car.

You'll only get a fair price at an auction if two or more keen private buyers, who know what they're looking at, are present.

If you are not in a rush, I would get it on the road with an MOT (doesn't legally need one but good to have all the same). I agree with

On 23/02/2023 at 21:00, ZXRRDave said:

the sales from June to last month have been demonstrating a fall of 10-15% with the cost of living crisis

 So now isn't really the time to be going to market if you can help it.

[ZXRRDave]

2 hours ago, PhilT said:

Hi Cuff4,

first I assume you have agreed value insurance from Club Lotus or similar? If not, it costs the subscription and £15. You can work backwards from that valuation. If its all original (especially the interior - steering wheel/ash tray etc etc) with all the correct bits (original wheels) and if your Dad did a good job (and Mick Miller) then that is a rare car.

You'll only get a fair price at an auction if two or more keen private buyers, who know what they're looking at, are present.

If you are not in a rush, I would get it on the road with an MOT (doesn't legally need one but good to have all the same). I agree with

 So now isn't really the time to be going to market if you can help it.

Well the Silverstone examples last weekend were inconclusive. The 'recently refreshed' LHD car with the horrendous arch extensions and other less than appealing mods didn't make reserve and is being offered at over 27k buy it now, which it's looking unlikely to get any interest for.

The massively over restored TC in gold leaf colours made over £39k, however that's unlikely to have done more than recoup the restoration costs looking at it. With the added bonus that it has had all of the life restored out of the car to the point it looked like an oversized airfix kit.

With some careful refreshing this car should still make at least 25k. The work done to date has impeccable provenance with the input of Mick Miller etc and it's certainly to my mind a more attractive example than the gold leaf car. That car does however demonstrate that the right car on the right day will still attain good money.

As you say, with the car refreshed and running, the best thing you can do is get some use out of it, maybe even the odd opportunity to take your dad out occasionally to get some enjoyment from what has clearly for him been a longstanding passion for the car equal to any of us on the pages here.

[Jim Estall]

I've had my Europa Special nearly from new and I'm only on my second water pump.  On the Europa the pump doesn't have to take the extra strain of the alternator/generator pulley as it does on the Elan and +2, so it tends to last longer.