Is this anything to worry about

[tb3033]

Hi,

Having chopped my shed in half to allow access for the engine, looking round it for the first time I noticed this. Please dont say it needs a new one... I make that 10p a mile for just the manifold alone.

Ambrose

[davegtst]

That looks like a turd. Can't work out what it is.

[tb3033]

Dave, yes it could well turn out to be one... it is the exhaust manifold and if you view at full size you will see a small hole. I'd just like to know if this is a; terminal hole || the beginnings of a terminal hole || nothing to worry about.

Ambrose

[molemot]

Does it leak? There might be a crack there, difficult to tell from the photo. I'm assuming it's a turbo exhaust manifold, and not a turd... if it doesn't leak, probably not a problem. If it does...well, received opinion is that these manifolds don't take kindly to attempts to weld them..I believe there are new ones in upgraded material which are supposed to be crack proof. Get the thing off and pressure test it, then you'll know. Let's hope it's OK!!!

[Guest Troy Halliday]

It could well be a casting defect. The design specification for the manifold is a minimal wall thikness of 4mm. I would tell you how I know this but then I'd have to KILL you!

[davegtst]

Ah i see what it is now.

[tb3033]

I dont think it was leaking, would the noise be that noticeable from a hole so small?

I'll add the pressure test to the list of stuff that needs doing, good suggestion thank you

Ambrose

[greenman]

Hi Ambrose they can be welded, but your possibly just delaying the inevitable.

Considering the work in removing ,i`d bite the bullet and go for a new one (don`t know the availability)

Trev.

[tb3033]

Troy, Im hoping so...

Rest assured, I wont press you to reveal your sources.

Thanks

Ambrose

[matk]

Sorry mate but if it's a hole its only going to get worse. Change it while the engine is out, it's far easier than with the engine in. Unfortunately manifolds are almost a consumable item on the Esprit. Theory is that the extreme temperature variations the engine cycles through shortens the life of the manifold.

[tb3033]

Hmm... 6000 miles for a manifold is perverse, especially given the inflated price of replacements.

If Lotus are pondering their next 'continuing development' project then a functional manifold would be a nice place to start.

This is the first time that Im seriously doubtful whether it is going to be worth the effort. This car has bitten me twice!

Ambrose

[mwmackenzie]

cracked manifold = ticking noise.....

Mark

[simonf]

cracked manifold = ticking noise.....

Mark

YOu meen like a rather noisy tappet, that quietens down when the engine is hot? Oh shit i thought that noise was a tappet that quietend down when it got hot! How much for a new manifold and can you gwet them in stainless?

[andydclements]

How much for a new manifold and can you gwet them in stainless?

One piece of advice form Lotusbits recently was not to have a stainless one, have one in mild steel, the bends can be achieved rather than having to cut and weld , due to not being able to get the stainless hot enough to bend as freely as mild.

Andy

[Tentenths]

South West Lotus's 'improved' manifold is, apparently, the way forward. Scroll down to the foot of this page for more details.

[tb3033]

James,

Yes, it looks like an improvement, I sent them an email last night asking what I'd need to do to fit to mine, it mentions that it is only suitable for post 87 turbos.

If mine is buggered then Im definitely looking into putting something different on.

Ambrose

[simonf]

Hi Ambrose,

I am not certain yet, but it is looking like i am in the same boat!!

My exhaust is definately blowing and seeing as everything but the manifold (oh and the manifold to wastegate pipe) is stainless then i am pretty sure its the manifold couple this with the ticking noise that someone mentioned and i am coming up with four!

I have spoken to Power and performance (01603) 880060 who made the custom stainless exhaust (and its a work of art by the way with stainless flexi's and everything) and they say that if the manifold is heated correctly (evenly and to superhot temp) it can be successfully welded. However they can make a replacement cast manifold if required but would recommend a tubular manifold!

Anyway my point is that my car is going to them on the weekend if they can fit me in and they will appraise from there, if a new manifold is required it may be cheaper if we do a deal for two, would you be interested? The main reason i am going back is:-

1) they were really nice guys who were very happy to go to great lengths to get the job done right and quickly.

2) they were very reasonable on price for my system (

Edited November 28, 2007 by USAndretti42
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[tb3033]

Hi Simon,

Well that sounds like a very promising avenue to try. I'd be most interested in their opinion and certainly would not mind trying something new, even if it results in some new and spectacular failure mode. At least I'll feel better that I didn't put back on a new part that was broken already.

I read a few things about gas fusion welding for cast parts, but as other have said here there appears to be a risk that a bad job could send a lump of nearly molten iron through the delicate turbocharger...not good.

The manifold made from improved material at SWLC will fit though I'd need a new adaptor bit oh yes and turbocharger and and and etc etc...too much pain.

I have read, here probably, that the manifold is cast due to its dual purpose of holding up the very heavy wastegate/turbo and adaptor, it is assumed that thin wall bent manifolds would deform when they get hot...a question to raise with your experts.

Ultimately I could be panicking over what might be casting defect and there may be many more miles before I have a problem, Ive attached another view of that side of the engine in case it gives anyone more clues. With any luck the entire lump will be put in the hands of expert for a final judgement.

Ambrose

[simonf]

I hope it does turn our to be just a casting defect, just as i hope mine turns out to be something simple too! Manifold issues were not even on my radar until yesterday! I have to finance a steering rack replacement aswell so i guess i am going to have to get some radiators for my garage this winter!!!

If i get time to have a good long chat with the guys at Power and Performance i will let you know what the verdict is!

[simonf]

Buddsy, i see your point appart from one tiny little thing! You have to remove the engine to get to the manifold (i think) therefore not the

Edited November 28, 2007 by USAndretti42
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[simonf]

You have only just finished your lounge! My god if i were you i would have only put 1 coat on and got straight out into the garage!! Give us a shout when you start on her in ernest, but i have to pre-warn you my wife now works saturdays leaving me with the boy and couple that with my car is giving me jip and it might take more than just a little of my time! Exhaust manifold you know about, steering rack, air con issues and clutch all to be done this winter (pounds pending of course!!) so i will help out when i can! especially with the heavy stuff like lifting the engine back in(thats if you still plan to remove it completely?)

Edited November 28, 2007 by USAndretti42
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[tb3033]

Scott,

Thats a relief, it does seem very small. Knowing that the manifold is a problem area but not knowing enough to recognise a sigificant fault was my problem.

Id still be interested in Simons research given that by all accounts it is merely a matter of time before a genuine fault appears. And Simon taking the engine out is pretty easy and I'm certainly no expert, it helps to have the right size spanners,sockets and engine crane with a load balancer. Granted it took I suppose 3 full days for me but I was going very carefully and took off quite a few more things than needed, I think it is easily doable in a day once you've done it before. Additionally the process was educational and enjoyable.

Ambrose

[simonf]

Being a proper man ambrose, I have never had a problem with the dismantling of anything i have ever laid my hands on - its putting it back together that i struggle with

Edited November 28, 2007 by USAndretti42
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[simonf]

Ambrose

Basically the Esprit is like having a beautiful but high maintenance wife!!!

My wife is High Maintenance anyway, not so sure about the beautiful bit! but to be fair the esprit can't cook me my dinner or fetch my slippers!!!

[simonf]

I wouldn't degrate the forum by asking about letting you warm her up in the garage or playing with her exhaust pipe...

That may be how the manifold cracked to be fair - OH! you were talking about my wife - thats embarrassing

[Tony K]

Forgive me if this was mentioned already -- I just glanced through the thread -- but if it is a leak, there will be black soot around it. No soot + no noise = no leak = don't worry.

I'd wait until you actually have a problem!