V8 Cambelt Schedule

[Iconic Ride]

Roger, the "timing wheel" that Blake is referring to is nothing more than a printout on a piece of printer paper--actually two printouts, one being a "mirror image" for use on in situ changeouts (since you need a mirror to see it under certain circumstances). And as Gunter points out, there are timing marks on the printout that are specific to the bank you are dealing with. The wheel is cut out of the printer paper and affixed (by your method of choice) to the crank pulley. You also need to fabricate a simple "pointer" to attach to the block as a reference (to the timing wheel marks). Mike S.'s thread covers all this--his last V8 rebuild thread, not the current project (yet!).

And no, I've never performed the procedure, but have nonetheless tried to learn as much about it as I can so as to follow along and be able to ask the right questions when the job is done (by those with larger cajones than mine) in the near future. Good luck, mate!

P.S., be sure that you don't confuse the cam pulleys' (sprockets) locking pins and tolerance pins with one another, as I'm told they are quite similar in appearance.

[freshcut]

Yes, they are different in diameter. I'm under the impression that one is 4.2mm and the other is 4.5mm. I don't have my service manual in front of me so can't say which one is for which. I have heard that some have used a set of punches of similar diameter for each type rather than the correct Lotus tools, however I think the idea of saving a few bucks by doing it that way is grossly outweighed by the chances of getting something set incorrectly and allowing the pistons and valve faces to get a little too intimate.

[Günter]

good point John, even an mechanic likes to read the story of this V8 build-up.

I do not know if it will be ever listed with an special link on the front page (as i can't find it in the moment) -what does our *boardmaster of chief* the Bibs man say about that !? Wasn't it planed as an special documentation/reference in the board. Pinned permanently in the list....

..im on the search about an head-bold 'note' that Mike was referring ...and i can't find it... or am I blind ??

******************

for an exact setting of new belts you need the bigger ones, and if you just want to verify some tension/and or positioning on an used belt -than you need to find the right crank position. For that it is good enough to use the smaller ones..

both are simply nothing else as an M6 screw with an 4.2mm (tolerance) or 4.7mm (setting) pin on the end. You can fabricate that for your self -or let an machine shop do it for you..

Edited July 15, 2009 by G

[Iconic Ride]

Gunter, the thread you are looking for is on page 2 (of "Esprit Projects and Restoration Room"--the part you already knew) slightly more than half way down, and titled "V8 engine rebuild," subtitled "Further upgrades."

[Günter]

Thanks John!

..Mike has posted so many projects that (even as I'm already daily in that section ..) i totally loose the spot ! Will go there an read the comment..

..not that easy with analog dial-up, on a 14 page topic. Even if I was the last who dit an comment there

Edited July 18, 2009 by G

[Iconic Ride]

" ..not that easy with analog dial-up..."

I feel your pain, Gunter. I have high speed broadband, but with my wife's seemingly "always on" notebook running Vista, and my younger son's two computers always on and running bandwidth hogging online video games, my poor little laptop struggles to survive, nibbling at the scraps of binary that are left over.

Arrggghhhh!

[Günter]

that's why I try to spend most of my free time (and much of the regular educational time too..) in the university's dining room. There is high-tech broadband wireless available -and it is free for the students with regular accounts.

Think you can imagine that most of the time the students are concentrated on car/parts deals, onlinepoker, girl-clubs, party news, stock exchange dealing and so on... . Oh and yes -we do something for our curses, ...from time to time..

Edited July 19, 2009 by G

[freshcut]

I think that holds true for a lot of people who have broadband access at work/school. It's always more fun to play than to work. I can't begin to tell you the number of emails and game invites I get from people I know who are supposed to be working but "find something better to do" in the form of playing.

[Iconic Ride]

"Oh and yes -we do something for our curses, ...from time to time.."

It's good to see that the younger generation is attempting to moderate their language during their meal breaks.

And speaking of curses, wasn't this thread originally about changing cambelts? As chief threadjacker in charge, I feel it's my duty to steer things back to topic by mentioning that I am in the process of trying to find the best place to have mine done--it's time. Problem is, even though Lotus has reestablished a dealership (in conjunction with Aston Martin and Bentley--yep, right here in river city, can you believe it?) in Austin, none of their mechanics (though apparently quite experienced on other marques) has ever worked on a V8. So I have to decide whether or not to use them (and hopefullly be covered by some sort of warranty should they botch the job), or try to find someone locally who may have "been there, done that" at an independent shop--probably with little in the way of restitutional backup if they screw up. What to do, what to do?

[ifly]

Drive it to Star Motors in Houston John, then you can add to the "How many miles on your motor" thread

[Iconic Ride]

Taking it to Star was one of the options I was considering, Bob, but then I have to figure out the remaining logistics, such as do I stay until it's done? What if they find that they need parts (i.e., new idler pulleys, new tensioners, etc) besides just the belts. Do I stay until they come in? Do I fly back to Austin? What happens if I flameout in the boonies on the drive between Austin and Houston? (Yeah, I know that you drove yours all the way from Texas to Colorado and I'm just a pussy--tho I once drove my Europa from New Jersey to California with nary a worry, but it was essentially brand new at the time) If the work is warrantied and something goes wrong a month later do I flatbed the car all the way back to Houston? Etc, etc....

Not to mention that Star's rep had gone south for a while last year--lots of turnover I'm told. Have they gotten better? For that matter, who's "they" anyway? The job is only as good as the actual mechanic that performs it. Hopefully they still retain someone whose hands have touched a 918 before. Meanwhile I'm still waiting on responses from some inquiries I put out this week to the local talent. Watch this space.

[freshcut]

I had my belts done in may/june and it did end up taking the shop about 2 weeks from the time I dropped it off, to the time I picked it up. A good portion of that time was spent waiting on parts (tensioners and idlers). I can't recommend the dealership or more importantly the mechanic I used highly enough, however I doubt you'd want to drive out to CA for your timing belts. Realistically I could have probably gotten away with replacing only one of the tensioners which was a little stiff, however I figured it to be better safe than sorry and replaced everything. Unfortunately I can't recommend anyone in Austin area. I did live there back in '00 and remember a dealership up on Lamar near 38th or so (if I'm remembering correctly it was called Autostrada or something like that), but not sure if they're still in business, or if this is the location your referring to.

[ifly]

Taking it to Star was one of the options I was considering, Bob, but then I have to figure out the remaining logistics, such as do I stay until it's done? What if they find that they need parts (i.e., new idler pulleys, new tensioners, etc) besides just the belts. Do I stay until they come in? Do I fly back to Austin? What happens if I flameout in the boonies on the drive between Austin and Houston? (Yeah, I know that you drove yours all the way from Texas to Colorado and I'm just a pussy--tho I once drove my Europa from New Jersey to California with nary a worry, but it was essentially brand new at the time) If the work is warrantied and something goes wrong a month later do I flatbed the car all the way back to Houston? Etc, etc....

Not to mention that Star's rep had gone south for a while last year--lots of turnover I'm told. Have they gotten better? For that matter, who's "they" anyway? The job is only as good as the actual mechanic that performs it. Hopefully they still retain someone whose hands have touched a 918 before. Meanwhile I'm still waiting on responses from some inquiries I put out this week to the local talent. Watch this space.

John,

I understand the issues involved and would not like to be in your position. I think Star seem to have turned the corner somewhat, Al who appears on here as abrussich would be able to give you more info. I had a problem getting info from them as they had just changed computer systems and a backup seemed to have been omitted along the way leading to a lack of info.

I will be changing my belts for the 1st time when the weather turns here in Colorado as by then I will feel happy that the car is in a nice warm garage being tended to.

Best of luck on the mechanic front and keep us appraised.

[Günter]

John i know, my grammar an vocabulary tends to be more worst than ever.. . Bud besides that : what is if you do your belts in DIY !? Wouldn't that be an great experience for you ?? With all those topics about belt changes and most important with Mikes mechanical-training & advice for all of your problems.. . There is an comunity behind you -so no panic !

cOurses with 'O' sounds more like what was meant

Edited July 20, 2009 by G

[lightcore]

i brought my V8 to star motor in houston about 6 weeks ago because of a turbo boost issue. here is the thread of my experience there, you can judge for yourself on whether they have experience with the V8.

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=24087

[ralphw]

Chaps

Brian Angus is spot on when he says poor tension is one of the major causes of belt failure. With a fixed tensioner it is only ever correct on the day it was set. As soon as it is used the belt settles/ wears etc and the tension drops. The tension check points have probably been established to ensure the tension doesnt drop below a certain level ensuring the belt is always under load. If it goes below this point then load reversals are possible which increases the shock loading on the belt. This is a bit like towing a novice driver using a rope, when the rope goes slack and you pull away thinking all is OK normally the rope breaks.

I would like to know more about those JAE belts, 300% is an interesting claim. Would also be interested in finding out about the fabric they use as tooth flank wear on the belt contributes significantly to loss of tension.

Interesting point about the pulleys wearing. In normal conditions this should not be an issue and should go on for many belt changes assuming nothing has got in and caused damage. If you operate in a sandy environment then it will be worth checking the belts and pullies. I have tested a few engines to assess the effect of sand. The findings where that after 150K miles the belt was still OK but the pulleys were awful. The belt surface picks up the sand and over time becomes a profiled piece of emery paper.

Cheers

Ralph

[ifly]

i brought my V8 to star motor in houston about 6 weeks ago because of a turbo boost issue. here is the thread of my experience there, you can judge for yourself on whether they have experience with the V8.

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=24087

Did you purchase your V8 recently in Yellow from a local seller? BTW I read your thread and followed it when you posted, seems like one of those things that requires a good tear down to fix in my humble opinion.

I actually purchased my V8 from a private seller but both Star and a local Esprit expert looked at the car and when I visited the dealership to pick up the car I talked to the mechanic who was there (name escapes me) and he was pretty knowledgeable about the particular quirks and service requirements. Over time personnel change and he may no longer be there, experience varies by mileage.

Edited July 20, 2009 by ifly

[Iconic Ride]

Gunter, lord knows you have a vastly greater command of English than I do of German. Nonetheless, you ought to know by now that I'm cutting you no slack. It's all part of my master plan to ensure that English remains the planet's "default" language, so that when I take over the world my ability to issue orders to Heads of State will be unencumbered by the need for translators.

As for me doing the cambelts myself, please see earlier reference to "cajones, undersized" statement above.

Blake, believe it or not, at one time I was seriously considering driving the car out to California (Thousand Oaks) to have "Ritchie" (their Lotus mechanic for 17+ yrs.) perform the service, as I have talked with him face to face (about a year ago), and he pretty much knew the cambelt change drill cold. He's done several. Wonder if I could talk him into coming to Austin instead And yes, the dealership on Lamar was called "Autostrada." They moved to a new location (where I purchased the car last yr.), changing their name to "Lotus of Austin." They folded their tent shortly after I bought the car (fortunately all the niggles had been attended to before that happened). Now, after a many months "dry spell" the latest iteration of a Lotus dealership has recently opened (see previous post above), and there in lies the conundrum. No one there has worked extensively (if at all) on a V8. They seem to be a fairly bright bunch though, and I plan to visit the service facility soon to ask more questions and to talk to the mechanic(s) one on one.

Francisco, I read with great interest your "novel" concerning Star Motors. While it definitely gives one pause as to whether or not I would take the car to Houston, in their defense your boost issue appears to be quite complex. Still, better communications between the dealer and Lotus USA would have been nice. I have met Dave Simkin, and found him to be an extremely helpful fellow, and quite interested in keeping Lotus customers happy. Have you taken your car to the new Austin dealership or not?

Ralph, with regard to pulley (idler) wear, Dave once told me (IIRC) that visually checking that the black coating was still present would normally indicate that they were still servicable. A shiney surface would raise a flag.

Cheers,

John

[freshcut]

John, Richie was in fact the mechanic who did my belt replacement, and again, I can't say enough about the guy. I ended up going with him after seeing several posts that specifically named him as "the man to see", as well as LotusUSA giving mention to Thousand Oaks as the first recommendation when I asked who they suggested I take the car to in relation to my location. As for having Richie come out to you, thats certainly something you'd need to take up with him. His passion for the marque is certainly genuine, and if the offer were right, you might be able to get him out there.

[Günter]

John if you say so...

caught between the concrete the Russian was a MUST, and English was an 'optional' in later years -so i have done the *passive civilian resistance* way of Gandhi : failed the 'must' as good as i could , and get more concentrated on the optionals..

[lightcore]

john,

i agree with you on the fact that i seem to have a complex issue with my boost. i guess the frustrating part with it all and what makes me question their experience with V8s, was that they were telling me that it was working as designed, and knowing that it was flat out wrong. i even brought the manual there and read it to them. there was definetely a communication problem between the dealer and LotusUSA. Dave Sinkim is involved now, so things should get sorted out. the good news is that LotusUSA and the dealer are now on the same page, and are working my problem. no resolution yet.

i did not take it to austin, since they are recognizing there is a problem and seem to be working it. i did contact the service department and they seemed to have experience with the V8.

[ifly]

Has anyone been told they should change their water pump while the belts are being done as well? If so what were you quoted for the water pump?

I have searched the forums and found no reference to this or anything in the service manuals. Maybe the dealer here is trying to hedge his bets or make more money?

John,

Ferrari of Denver have assured me they have a mechanic who has performed belt changes and one of our local members here with a 2003 confirmed it as well. You may want to check into that as we are a little closer and I can always keep an eye on your motor for you!

Edited July 21, 2009 by ifly

[Günter]

would not worry on the 918 water-pumps , as it is not driven by the timing belt (as on some European/GM cars..). And it is pretty much easy to change in case of... . What does your control (or call it "bypass") hole look like !? does water drip out even on hot engine, or does it leak steady with the engine not running ?

[Iconic Ride]

Small world, eh Blake? Richie is indeed a great guy and Lotus guru nonpareil, and I enjoyed my chat with him immensely. I envy you your proximity to him--not exactly next door, but a heck of lot closer than Austin!

Francisco, I will continue to follow your saga at Star Motors. Here's hoping it all gets resolved soon. In the meanwhile I appreciate your efforts (and Dave's) at bringing them back "up to speed" on V8 nuances. They remain an option for me, and the more their current crop of mechanics deals with the Esprit the better it is for everyone involved. Sorry that you had to be somewhat of a guinea pig for our benefit. As they say here in Austin, "Onward through the fog."

"Best of luck on the mechanic front and keep us appraised."

Bob, I would be delighted to appraise as many member's cars as feel the need. I am always happy to inspect and peruse any example of the marque, as they are as rare as hen's teeth in my neck of the woods. If you wish me to examine your vehicle, please arrange for first class airfare (on the carrier of your choice) from Austin to Denver. Five Star hotel arrangements, with limo transportation, will be suitable, and a generous meal allowance stipend is generally part of my service requirements. A full tank of fresh gas should be put into the Esprit just prior to my arrival, as my analysis of the car is quite thorough.

(See, Gunter? I am an "equal opportunity" pedant, sparing no nationality refuge from the rigors of the King's grammar. Of course, I have now opened myself up to an entire assemblage of thrust and parry retaliations and potential paroxysms from fellow members, but if called to task will take it like a man.)

I will have to think long and hard about allowing the unwashed hands of a Ferrari horse trader to touch my pristine English steed, Bob, but will try to keep an open mind on the issue, as my limited local options discourage the burning of any bridges at this juncture.

Cheers,

John

[ifly]

"Best of luck on the mechanic front and keep us appraised."

Bob, I would be delighted to appraise as many member's cars as feel the need. I am always happy to inspect and peruse any example of the marque, as they are as rare as hen's teeth in my neck of the woods. If you wish me to examine your vehicle, please arrange for first class airfare (on the carrier of your choice) from Austin to Denver. Five Star hotel arrangements, with limo transportation, will be suitable, and a generous meal allowance stipend is generally part of my service requirements. A full tank of fresh gas should be put into the Esprit just prior to my arrival, as my analysis of the car is quite thorough.

(See, Gunter? I am an "equal opportunity" pedant, sparing no nationality refuge from the rigors of the King's grammar. Of course, I have now opened myself up to an entire assemblage of thrust and parry retaliations and potential paroxysms from fellow members, but if called to task will take it like a man.)

I will have to think long and hard about allowing the unwashed hands of a Ferrari horse trader to touch my pristine English steed, Bob, but will try to keep an open mind on the issue, as my limited local options discourage the burning of any bridges at this juncture.

Cheers,

John

John,

I have booked you First Class on Pet Airways, you have the largest cage they could supply. The fleapit hotel has added the necessary stars to meet your 5 star requirement and my neighbour has added the side car to his motorcycle limo. The local soup kitchen has been notified that you want 3 squares a day to which I got an appropriate reply from the patrons in line. The only problem I have is that my wife would not allow me to fart into her Esprit handbag to ensure the necessary "full tank of gas", but you are welcome to inspect my car. Looking forward to your visit, please remember to bring a change of clothes so my seats don't get dirty