Data logging / ECU interface

[gavin@petken.com]

Has anyone installed a logger (specifically a DL1 from Race Technology) with an ECU interface? I'm not sure what interface it is but must be the same as the Elise, Exige.

I like my toys and Race Technolgy are soon to release the Video 4 and the Dash 3. Both plug into the DL1. The former is a flash based video recorder taking up to 4 video inputs whilst overlaying configurable data from the DL1 over the video (solves all my video probs in one go!), the latter is a small screen displaying real time data from the DL1 (and hopefully the ECU).

thanks

g

[pgn340r]

I am sure when I saw Mark's(Gooday) car at Brands the other week he had one fitted, but I could be wrong

P

[de_futter@msn.com]

Did anybody ever find out which interface is needed for the DL/1?

I can't work out whether I need the Serial ODB interface (

[pgn340r]

There you go again Derrick. I've told you about this before

[gavin@petken.com]

Just found this from Bibs in another thread:

Doh! Sorry. I've just asked Nick and the 2Eleven has CAN (Controller Area Network) as per the 2005-2007 Elise/Exige, not OBD-II. There is a connector under the centre of the dash, once again as per the Elise/Exige.

Some CAN info here... http://www.aa1car.com/library/can_systems.htm

However , this is the connector under my front bulkhead (above gearstick). A brief check on Google images shows this to be an OBD connector.

The CAN connectors look like the 9-pin D connector you get on serial ports, nothing like in the piccie here.

So - I'm really confused

Edited July 20, 2008 by gavinp

[de_futter@msn.com]

At the risk of sounding too geeky for some people (you know who you are!), I had a quick rummage around the dashboard at the weekend. I took the plastic surround off the steering wheel/instrument binnacle - no connector (either OBD or CAN) there, took the central light switch cluster apart - no connector there, took the shroud off from around the gear stick/handbrake - no connector there.

So I have not yet managed to find the ECU connector yet - so guess how stupid I feel!

Gavin - the connector you pictured does indeed look like an OBD one - but where is it?The only things on my front bulkhead that I have found are the instrument binnacle (around steering column) and the light switch cluster (in the centre just underneath the aeroscreen).

Bibs - are you really really sure that it is CAN and not OBD - the connector in Gavin's picture is OBD. And any hints as to location would help.

TIA

Derrick

[Bibs]

I'm on the case

[gavin@petken.com]

It's directly above the gear stick, tucked under the front bulkhead. You need to get down low, almost put your head on the seat to see it. It has a black plastic cap on it so will only look like the photo when you take the cap off (just pull foward and it slides off I think).

g

[de_futter@msn.com]

It's directly above the gear stick, tucked under the front bulkhead. You need to get down low, almost put your head on the seat to see it. It has a black plastic cap on it so will only look like the photo when you take the cap off (just pull foward and it slides off I think).

g

Gavin - thanks I will do a handstand in the passenger footwell to see if I can see it (phew thank goodness I don't have the hard tonneau fitted).

I have been doing a bit of digging and think I may have cracked the interface. Back in the old days (1990's) there were two main protocols for on-board diagnostics - OBD (US manufacturers) and CAN (Rest of World). OBD went through various versions until it reached OBD II, for which there are five signalling protocols - SAE J1850 PWM (Ford standard), SAE J1850 VPW (GM standard), ISO 9141-2 (Chrysler standard), ISO 14230 KWP2000 and ISO 15765 CAN. This last is the CAN protocol (i.e. non-US manufacturers) implemented using the OBD connector. By 2008, all US vehicles are required to implement CAN.

From the picture, it appears that only pins 4,5,6,7,12,14,15 and 16 are connected, which would be compatible with both the 250 kbit/s and 500 kbit/s CAN protocol. Pin 12 is not required for any protocol so I would assume that it is a Lotus special connection.

So I believe that it is an OBD (J1962) connector running the CAN protocol (so that it is compliant with the US regulations. This would mean that I need the CAN OBD interface.

Now the data that comes out is addressed by Parameter Identification Numbers (PIDs) and it is up to each manufacturer to decide which PIDs to implement and they can add their own (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_OBD-II_Codes for recommended standard PIDs), so the question becomes which PIDs have Lotus implemented and have they added any of their own?

Hmm wonder if Paul bothered reading this far - it's probably a bit too technical for him

[gavin@petken.com]

Good work that man, Blue Peter badge in the post. I'm going to send that lot to the guy at Lotus I have been talking to an ask him to confirm!

g

Edit: Lotus have confirmed they use OBN CAN diagnostics.

g

[de_futter@msn.com]

Result

Looks like a group buy of DL/1, Dash 3 and CAN OBD interface cables then !

[pgn340r]

Are you guys talking about your cars or your PlayStation 3's? Anything more than 4 wheels and a steering wheel and I lose attention fast.

Maybe my grandson will know what you are talking about.

[gavin@petken.com]

hold fire. Just got a very specific e-mail from lotus but can't paste from my iPHone. Will try later. Looks like obd2.

G

ie NOT CAN

[Bibs]

Me too!

Hi Bibs, sorry but I am guilty here of not double checking my facts. I looked at the port and knowing the pin-outs assumed that it was a CAN OBD as used on current Elises, but it turns out I was wrong. There is no OBD support via CAN bus on the current 2-Elevens. The pins are there for CAN but they are not used for diagnostic output. 211 diagnostics are to CARB OBD2 standard utilising an ISO9141 communications protocol. Rather than causing more confusion by saying which adaptor is needed I think I had better just ask that you provide this information to the guy who needs it and ask him to liase direct with the datalogger supplier to make sure he gets the right adaptor!!

Hope this helps, Nick

[gavin@petken.com]

Just parked the iPhone and fired up the laptop. I got this from Lotus:

"Also, to confirm, the cars up to MY'07 (which includes all 2-Elevens) have

diagnostics to CARB OBD2 standard utilising an ISO9141 communications protocol.

There is no OBD support via CAN bus (despite CAN pins being present on under-dash

connector)."

[de_futter@msn.com]

Aarrrggghh - no reason to make it easy then!

I'm not sure whether the DL/1 will support ISO9141 - but I will ask them the question.

Don't worry Paul, it doesn't affect the operation of the ice box.

[edit]

For Paul's grandson and other interested parties, I have raised query ticket RT1216387879 at www.race-technology.com and will report back when I get a response.

Edited July 22, 2008 by DEL211

[de_futter@msn.com]

Response from Race Technology is that the "Serial OBD" interface is the required one - and yes reassuringly it is the most expensive interface cable they do at

[Bibs]

I've got a chap who makes me USB interface cables for the Esprit. Would it be worth me chatting to him about these? He's an automotive electrical engineer by trade and I sell the cables for

[de_futter@msn.com]

Bibs - thanks for the offer but the interface cable actually contains a doodad to translate the ECU data into a format the data logger/display can cope with i.e. it is not just a piece of wire with a different plug on each end.

Sorry to be a pain but can you confirm that the 2-Eleven ECU produces ISO 9141-2 (rather than just ISO 9141) as this is the only (currently) supported version of the protocol that the interface supports? And before you ask, no I don't know the difference between 9141 and 9141-2 (yet)!

TIA

P.S. Enjoy the motor show, as if you need to be told

[edited to add pictures to further irritate non-technical champagne-quaffing grandfathers ]

The Interface

and how to connect it (note the serial cable has three plugs, one for the interface, one for the logger and one for the display module)

Edited July 23, 2008 by DEL211

[Bibs]

Email sent, I'll post as soon as I hear back. The Esprit cables are also made using a chip (which is programmed to deal with our protocol) which translates the data for our scan/logging package to read, that's not just a cable either. If it's worth a phone call to potentially save

[pgn340r]

Yawn

[Bibs]

Alright already!

It's 9141-2

[de_futter@msn.com]

Email sent, I'll post as soon as I hear back. The Esprit cables are also made using a chip (which is programmed to deal with our protocol) which translates the data for our scan/logging package to read, that's not just a cable either. If it's worth a phone call to potentially save

[evo_ufo]

Hi folks, new on here, just popped over from exiges.com to see what was going on with the 2-11s

I've got a DL1 running in my Exige and considered getting an ODB interface but in the end decided against it.

The reason for this is that the info available on the ODB interface refreshes at a very slow rate. One sample every couple of seconds and hence isn't great for data logging.

Instead I've wired directly into the brake lights, throttle position, and sendor 1 on the coil pack. The rest of the info coming from the GPS and accelerometers.

Summary, DL1 is a great piece of kit, but save the money on the ECU interface.

Cheers

Will

[gavin@petken.com]

Hi

I just blew some money on the serial OBD interface for the DL1 / 2-11. After a reflash of the DL1, and a reload of the config file, it appears to be working. It does seem to have a fast enough refresh rate, howevero nly really useful bit of info I have seen from some very basic digging is throttle position. No revs or anything like that.

Might need some more time to configure properly. And, the guys at Race Technology are very helpful.

My Dash 3 should be here in the next day or two as well. There is a pass through on the lead so you can plug the Dash 3 into the lead and see real time data coming off the ecu.

Del, ever get yours sorted?

g