Jacking up

[Kurgen]

Can you buy a trolley jack to fit under the car, as I want to take the wheels off and clean brakes, etc.

Went down to local Halfords, but the jacks all look like they would only fit under a Range Rover.

Any links or pointers..?

Cheers

Rob

[de_futter@msn.com]

I use a Sealy 1.5 ton "Rocket Rise" which fits under the side with space to spare - 1 half pump takes up the slack and then 2 full pumps gets it far enough off the ground to remove both front and rear wheels.

I got it from GPR Direct at Silverstone (www.gprdirect.com) but looking through their web site for a link, I couldn't find it (it is NOT the

[pgn340r]

Must have bought it a long time ago as they are now

Edited November 11, 2008 by Bibs

[Kurgen]

Cheers, is it this one or similar..?

http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Trolley-Jack-...34Pa38Ta38Nahb0

[de_futter@msn.com]

Not quite, although that looks like it might do the job! Mine is a 1.5 ton with a single roller at the lifting end (rather than castors), lifting handles running down each side and lots of rubber on the bottom part of the pump handle (to protect the car).

Paul - it was a while ago (hence why it may no longer be available) and was part of a package which included two lightweight 1 ton axle stands. Thought that you would have laid off your pit crew for the winter by now - not like you to get into technical things

[pgn340r]

As I have always said Del, why keep a dog and bark yourself

Paul

[LL-2-11]

Has somebody tried to lift the 2-11 on the roll bar? Or what will happen?

[Bibs]

Costco have done some excellent deals on what were once expensive jacks recently, keep an eye out for them. They'll often thrown in a couple of 3 tonne axle stands too

[Scotty C]

I also have a Costco one. Got it for my birthday from my mum

[LL-2-11]

That's a very nice tool!

I think of taking a winch for lifting the complete car on the roll bar. Than it would be easy to put it on trestles or chocks...

Would be the roll bar, the mounting and the complete car strong enough? I haven't read this in the manual, but I've read that it's possible to tow the car this way. So, for my understanding, the forces have only different directions...

[de_futter@msn.com]

LL 2-11

I believe that the forces involved in towing a car are very much less than in lifting it. As a test try pushing the car along the road on your own, then try lifting it up by hand.

I don't know whether the roll bar mounts would be strong enough to take the whole weight of the vehicle - I wouldn't expect them to be designed to take stress in that direction - the roll bar is designed to take the weight of the car in compression when it is upside down and even then there would be other points of contact to reduce the loading.

Lotus may be able to tell you whether you can lift the car using the roll bar but I would avoid doing it unless they tell you it is safe.

[Bibs]

I thought the same about the direction of the forces involved so have pinged a quick message to 'He Who Knows'™ for an opinion

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No chance in hell.

I think you *could* lift it by the roll bar in an emergency but I'm convinced it would damage the chassis and I certainly wouldn't want to be under it at the time.

I don't think the main roll bar is located in the centre of gravity either - I suspect the car will nose down. this effectively puts alot of strain on a couple of very small bolts.

As above - when towing the weight of the car is still held by the wheels - the force required to move the car is only the small amount to overcome the rolling resistance of the tyres (pretty trivial - most adults can do this easily).

[LL-2-11]

I agree, that you need less force for towing, but when towing a car I think there are situations with much more stress on the rope. 750kg of the car seems not that much to me...

I haven't seen yet, how the bar is fixed, so maybe I should do this first.

The centre of gravity would be somewhere on the two crossbars in front of the actuall bar.

[de_futter@msn.com]

I don't think the main roll bar is located in the centre of gravity either - I suspect the car will nose down. this effectively puts alot of strain on a couple of very small bolts.

I understand from others that if you try to tow a 2-11 forwards out of a gravel trap by the roll bar, it will bury the front splitter into the gravel - no personal experience of being towed out of a gravel trap yet though! This would support Ads view that the roll bar is aft of the centre of gravity (especially when a driver is installed).

[maffoo]

my car came off at the nurburgring and was undrivable due the rear left quarter hitting the armco. (none of this by me I hasten to add). They lifted the car onto the loory with the rollbar and seemed to think that it would be more than strong enough as it is supposed to withstand the load of the car plus the inertia of the crash when upside down. No damgae was was done to the chassis in doing so.

My car was one of the ones without the front towing strut (no. 61) and B&C said to use use the rollbar as the towpoint. would like,to know if anyone else is doing this and if it is sufficient. To put the strut in and the tow eye itself is not a cheap aftermarket!!

Matt

[pgn340r]

Not sure how viable lifting by the rollbar is in that you are putting different stresses than I would have thought was the intended purpose. Best bet I thought would be to find out from Nick.

You are right about retrofitting the tow eyes, as it requires removing the front clam with is a 6 our labour job. I did it and cost about a grand in all. ( Had I known before hand would not have bothered, but worth doing if you deside to fit the Lamova Oil coolers).

Paul

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Del - almost It nose dives in that instance because the roll bar is above the centre of gravity.

750kgs might not be much but you can still damage the chassis by jacking up one corner of the car on a normal jack (ie' the points that are designed for a 4 post lift)

Actually thats a quick n easy way to see how far out the main roll bar is from the centre gravity - the A jack points (mid way-ish on either side used for a signle trolley jack) are at the balance point as they lift both front and rear wheels together. If that is inline with the roll bat then yes it'll be roughly the right point.

I still wouldn't do it though - be just as easy to get a cheap 4 post lift or a set of those ramps you drive on and then jack up.

[TheKevlarKid]

The main roll bar is strong enough to lift the car up with, I already had this conversation with Mr Adams last year before I started racing the 2-11 (need to know these things you know...)

I even put it into practice at Brands last year when I had the tele-handler pluck me from the far side of Paddock Hill g/trap and place me back on the track.

You need to make sure that you attach the slings/straps on either side of the main roll bar and lift so its pulling up on the main legs as such (there are small cross braces in each corner of the roll bar, put the straps/slings through those to stop them sliding across and make sure they are not too short to the lifting point).

DO NOT try to attach a single strap in the middle of the roll bar and lift the car as you will more than likely bend it!!

TBH its not something I would be looking to do on a regular basis in order to lift the car for things like brakes and wheel changes...Really only to be used as a get out of jail card once in a blue moon.

Gav

[Nick Adams]

Hi All, sorry, been a bit busy lately and haven't popped in for a look lately. Gav is 100% right, the 'bar is up to the job but it shouldn't be used all the time as lifting the car on a single strap is inherantly unsafe due to the risk of the strap failing. The main thing is to make sure the strap runs through the two holes formed by the little frontwards braces as well as under the main hoop so that the load is not put through the centre of the main hoop, which could easily bend.

Nick