Q&A with the guru!

[maffoo]

Gavin it was me with the tyre pressure monitor and good to meet you. Great advice thanks, it certainly goes through it quite quickly, a bag tank may an investment further down the line, in the meantime I'll get in line at the pumps!

Matt

[ads_green]

I think the problem with the fuel is that the gauge is actually too accurate. Looking at the CanBus details it's contantly updating with precise values so there is (either in the dash or ecu) and smoothing function to take out the bumps. As the fuel level gets really low you'll get more sloosh effect and the smoothing function will be more apparent.

Damn - that reminds me - not tried out mine yet in anger to testnut after all these convesations the Pro-Alloy tank is looking more and more attractive it 500 quid (10 extra lires will come in handy and no fuel surge).

[Scotty C]

My record is 6 full tanks in a day

4 on track, this was at snetterton (3 fills at the track @

[noe]

Morning Bibs. Look forward to hearing some of the answers as i'm sure some of your dedicated friends and followers are too. Also thankyou for doing this site !

Just looking at some of the questions posted though ........... probably good you left at 6.30am ...... and missed some of the others.. ouch

Happy easter from Japan

[Edika]

Just some words to thank Nick for his help for my french registration.

After a year trying alone, I called him desperate and since, he as do all he can to help me.

I haven't succeed now, but it's in good way !

[tr@iko.lu]

Just some words to thank Nick for his help for my french registration.

After a year trying alone, I called him desperate and since, he as do all he can to help me.

I haven't succeed now, but it's in good way !

Nick helped me also and I m starting my procedure in Luxemburg..

Thanks to him, and a let s hope I m on the good "track"

Tam

[goblet]

Hi,

Just a word concerning erratic readings of the fuel gage.

I have a 70 l bag fitted to my car and i am experiencing the same problems you all seem to have,

2 bars left on the track mean 0 when rested.

So the tank does not seem the culprit.

On the other hand I have never experienced any fuel starvation issues even on slicks and the confort of being able to

carry more fuel and being able to concentrate on more important things makes the big tank a valuable(!) plus.

P.

[ads_green]

The bag tank is structurally the same as the pro alloy unit. pro alloy make the core tank for ATL who then add the extra rubber bits. It has the same one way baffles and filled with safety foam. Both will reduce fuel starvation to a minimum but as the fuel gauge sender is mounted within an area of extreme baffles even pro alloy said this will make the fuel gauge read high.

I think we need to be accurate over the issues as there appears to be 2

1) fuel surge when you really have half a tank

2) fuel surge when showing half tank but in reality almost empty

Any normal fixes for 1 will cause 2 (unless you want to rip out most of the fuel system)

The only way i can think of solving 2 is fitting a remote fuel level sender mounted more centrally in the tank. Not easy though

[stephanie plum]

I'll be typing up the answers over the next couple of days

Come along Bibs. Chop chop TAGL. Have you never learnt to touch type?

/drums fingers impatiently

[Bibs]

Haha, I've done it and sent it off to Nick to make sure my notes made enough sense, will post as soon as he's agreed he said what I've typed!

[stephanie plum]

Yes, yes. We believe you.

/rolls eyes to the heavens

[Bibs]

But, but...

[Bibs]

 

2Elevenforum _ General Motoring/Lotus/2Eleven Chat _ Q&A with the guru!

Posted by: Jo Lloyd Apr 7 2009, 02:21 PM

Why aren't the new engine mounts a warranty retrofit?

The standard mounts are perfectly capable for road and track day use. The new engine mounts are aimed squarely at competition use and as a result are much stiffer. Many people will find the vibrations at idle too high to be acceptable for road use hence they aren’t a replacement but an upgrade.                               

When will the fabric tonneau be available, and quite how frightening will the price be?

Lotus are in final stages with the manufacturer and should be dealing with the end of the process at the end of April, product available from mid May. The price is expected to be somewhere around £500-ish plus fitting which is comparison to an MX5 equivalent at £1,700 is good value. The cover has been tested up to 150mph and is very good, it’s of triple zip type construction and rolls up to fit neatly behind the seats when not in use. Nick is very pleased with the product however it’s taken time to perfect due to it’s unusual ultralight material.
Are we going to get the instruction day or has it died a death?

I am in discussion with James about this. As ever, it’s a cost issue and there will be a minimum number of committed attendees. Please expect a request for this with some possible dates very soon.  

 

Posted by: Scotty C Apr 7 2009, 03:02 PM

when can I get a shotty of a GT4

The car which the forum has at Donington is a road legal GT4 demonstrator with 270ps and sequential box. Seriously interested parties may get the opportunity to drive this car, contact Russel Gibbons at Lotus Sport or your Lotus dealer.

 

Posted by: Gooday Apr 7 2009, 05:06 PM

couple of points.

1) My gearbox 1900 miles is shredded ! yes I DO beat the syncro I am told, but my little 340r box is hammerd with 240bhp as well and has lasted 10 years ? I have had it rebuilt BUT I do not really want to keep doing it , 1900 miles !! Ideas, better box, comments welcomed.Surely the 211 box should not be this weak? I am NOT the only person to have the box rebuilt in very short time, it seems a little unfair that this is NOT a warrany job. a track day works the car FAR harder than any race weekend, you are welcome to come on ANY of the track days and see how the cars are put through there paces.

Lotus are aware that there have been some issues but an awful lot of the cars don’t have any problems. There is a sequential box available but at a cost. They are looking at other options for the future however there is nothing definite in the pipeline at present.

2) anyone got an engine, mine went pop at Donnington today, I am supposed be racing 17/18/19 and after a BIG rebuild from my littel accident the car looks amazing, handles stunningly ( thanks to GT4 suspension) and set up with Stephen and FSR. BUT I am in need of an engine, we have not got 100% to the bottom of the issue as yet or if we have it is in debate between a few people

Sorry to hear this, Lotus Sport have looked at the car and explained to your technician what he did wrong when installing the new oil coolers.
 

Posted by: abrussich Apr 7 2009, 06:11 PM

Any word on availability of the Hans approved seat replacements? Cost, availability ?

The Carbon Fibre Cup 260 seat will be available as an aftermarket part following FIA testing in mid/late April. The seats are suitable for driver and passenger, can be fitted side by side unlike the old FIA seat, can be used with the standard sliding mounts or FiA approved side plate mounts, are compatible with 3/4/5 and 6 point harnesses and are compatible with the HANS device.  They are FIA aproved for all levels of racing,  when mounted on the FIA mounts they can be adjusted fore and aft and vertically as well as for rake and have been able to accommodate 6’3” drivers in comfort, set in the lowest position they are right on the floor of the car while the head rest is 25mm further back than the old seats for comfort while wearing a helmet/HANS device.  The centre trim cushions are quickly removable and repositionable sio that the driver can adjust things for maximum comfort, while the real enthusiast can run with all cushions removed and create a seat liner using two pack foam if wanted.  The carbon fibre is exposed on the rear face of the seat.

Any factory solution to the oil starvation when running slicks issue?

Nick thinks this potential issue has been rather exaggerated, probably as a result of his caution in replying to early questions about running on slicks.  At that stage in the programme Lotus had done very little running on slicks, and although they had not had any issues, Nick was anxious to make sure that people planning on running them understand the full implications of doing so. Slick tyres massively increase the maintenance schedule of the car, bringing it in line with that of a race car. Suspension components, bushes, chassis, everything needs to be checked and replaced/rebuilt more often due to the massively increased stresses put on the car. You cannot safely drop a set of slicks on the car and maintain it as you did when running it on track day tyres like the A048’s. With regards to oil surge, since then Lotus have had a F1 test driver drive a 2Eleven on slick tyres and had no bearing issues themselves over a 24 hour race.  However having not conducted extensive testing they cannot give absolutely firm answers to longevity questions and certainly will not offer any warranty at all on a car fitted with slicks. The issue is not just simple oil surge, what happens is the oil gets caught up in the cylinder head and cannot drain back down the the sump quickly enough.  This means that the oil level in the sump drops and then oil surge starts to occur when the level gets too low. The accusump works well to overcome this, but making it larger will not necessarily help as it is already as large as it can be without dropping so much oil into the engine that it starts to lead to issues with overfill when the car comes out of the corner. If you want further protection, a larger capacity sump in addition to the standard accusump would be a good idea, preferably with baffles in to reduce surge. The larger capacity gives you longer before the oil level starts to get critical and the accusump has to cut in. Baffles in the standard capacity sump won’t help much as the oil still gets caught up in the head and the baffles won’t have much oil to catch

Other than that, having a great time beating up on the high horsepower corvettes, Vipers, Ford GT's, Porsches, and anything else that gets in the way. Please pass that along to Nick with a wicked poop eating grin.

Excellent!

Al B.
 

Posted by: whl3 Apr 7 2009, 06:51 PM

1. What is the availability of all of the products advertised in the Lotus Sport catalog? Pricing? Euros and US dollars.
All items are available in the UK. Please speak to your dealer or Russell Gibbons in Lotus Sport (+44 1953 608507, rgibbons@lotuscars.co.uk) if your dealer cannot help you.

2. Any consideration on volume discounts for "pre-production" Lotus Sport 2-Eleven accessory ordering?

Lotus are certainly interested in trying this, could be an option with the fabric tonneau cover. Watch this space.

3. Will Lotus ever make the 2-Eleven available "to order" with Lotus Sport options installed at the factory?

This option is already available in most markets, please speak to Russell Gibbons as before.

4. Is a different cylinder head (or engine) with direct injection being given any consideration? New type supercharger or turbocharger?

Lotus Sport are always looking at new technologies and thinking about what is next however they are not at liberty to discuss this due to commercial sensitivities.

5. Is the sequential gearbox the answer to the OEM box when used in higher hp engines or strictly for racing?

The sequential box is very, very strong however it depends on how many compromises you are willing to make to live with the gearbox. If you like your car to have the ‘race’ feel, then it’s livable however it’s not to everyones taste as it is very harsh and noisy.  Bloody good fun though…

6. When will the Evora shed weight? Are there any plans for it to be available in a Porsche GT3 type variation?
Not a suitable question for this discussion, sorry.
7. When are you going to complete the 23 restoration?
It’s coming on at a pace and hopefully it will be running this year and racing next year.

 

Posted by: Gazoo Apr 7 2009, 07:07 PM

I got one of the first cars lucky 13 and have had a upgrade by Hanger 111 to 280bhp and all is fine with the gearbox, but it feels a bit loose. I however would like some info on the sequential box, when can I get one and how much?
The gearbox is available right now, cost is £18.950 + VAT.

Also I have the original mirrors and they are a real pain, is there a replacement that works
The later mirrors would be suitable however the do fit in a different place therefore you would need to put grommets in your existing holes. You can get these mirrors from your dealer or Russell at Lotus Sport.

 

Posted by: cncreffield Apr 7 2009, 07:57 PM

When can we have:

1) cheap (er) sequential box (10'000 euro's fitted...like on a beemer with a sadev)

The problem with the Toyota C64 gearbox is that the size and relative positions of the bearings in the casing precludes bigger shaft diameters and it’s bigger shafts you need to handle more torque. There is a possible option for a cheaper 6 speed sequential based on the Toyota casings, but it will not handle much if any more torque than the standard box. There must be enough interest for this to work from a business case point of view, perhaps 20 people at least. If you are interested let Russell know and Nick will start to look further into it.

2) factory fitted larger fuel tank (50l)

There is a 70l FIA bag tank available currently. There is no real opportunity for a larger steel tank due to the shape of the tank bay in the chassis.

3) center bolt for wheels

This is not available, it was looked at but the costs are ferocious.
4) non-moving driver seat mounts...

Already done, please see above re the FiA seats.
5) 100 kgs less weight
A full carbon body which is available will save you 20kgs which is a good start. There will be lighter wheels available soon. Other weight reduction options already available are water/oil coolers (-8kg) and the carbon seats (-2 kg ish each). Nick is always trying to get weight out of the car, but this is very difficult without increasing the vehicles cost, which he doesn’t want to do.  

6) 435 hp (just to annoy porsche and ktm)
Would that be nice! Watch this space!
 

Posted by: dougthethug Apr 7 2009, 08:15 PM

Hello Nick, it's a while since we met.

I had a S1 111S, and had the Turbotechnics supercharger fitted which worked very well. Eventually I moved on to other cars (TVR and now a Ferrari). But I was blown away by the 211 when I saw it at the MPH show, and came up to Hethel to drive it. I was very impressed by everything except the lack of shove in the back. It handles brilliantly well, the boggo brakes are fine, the seats are great, and there's a great sense of fun about it but when you're paying a lot of money for something with no doors or windscreen you do want it to feel incredibly quick, and it didn't. Hence with some disappointment I never bought it.
 

Later on last year I hired one at Spa (from Stephen Docherty of Track Club - good man). It was better than I remembered, but still felt underpowered. Once you get above 100 mph it takes a very long time to get to 140.

So the question is: is there going to be more power and/or less weight any time soon? Is it even possible? I appreciate that the 211 is in fact one very quick car and puts in excellent lap times - some tests have it quicker than the R500 and Atom - but it doesn't actually FEEL all that quick. At least, not to me! Obviously you can hoon it around and pull G forces etc but that's not what I mean.

NB I would describe myself as trackday enthusiast, and probably about average among people who do lots of them. I do have my National B licence but haven't got around to racing.

Douglas Campbell
The current maximum power available with the standard gearbox is 260bhp which gives performance that embarrasses significantly bigger and more powerful cars. Lotus are always looking to make their cars go faster, it would be great to have more power upgrades but these aren’t cheap. Also, the car does, due to its nature and lack of windscreen have a high co-efficient of drag, this is an inherent characteristic of all Barchetta style cars.

 

Posted by: malsayer Apr 7 2009, 08:54 PM

Hi Nick

My main concern here in Kuwait is taking care of the car. My family was the lotus dealer back in the day and currently is the Toyota dealer. What i need is the detailed service manual (dealer manual) to understand the services required and how to go about doing them. Is it at all possible to either get a copy or have a copy sent to the ex dealer?
This is available to buy, please contact Dave Massey or Russell Gibbons @ Lotus.
Does lotus have or planning on selling a packaged data logger system that is somewhat plug and play showing fuel pressure, oil pressure ...etc.
The problem with this technology is that it’s impossible to produce what is needed, when it’s needed. The technology is moving so fast that todays technology is old by tomorrow so it’s not commercially viable for Lotus to stock.
Where can i source slicks for the car and what brand/size do you know of that works with the 211 and what modification are needed if installed?
Yokohama or Michelin makes tyres which are suitable. You can get them from any race tyre distributor. Make sure that you select the tyre with the softest possible compound to gain heat as quickly as possible. We ran Michelin 20/61/16 and 24/61/17 slicks in S7C compound at the front and S8B at the rear in Dubai , but we were struggling to get a soft enough compound due to the cars extremely low tyre loadings. You need something around 2 grades softer at each end at a guess.

Thanks in advance
 

Posted by: noe Apr 7 2009, 09:43 PM

Not much to say that i think this is one of the best vehicles for driving anywhere but in the rain. If only km's didn't stack up as quickly as birthdays do in life .........

Always wanted to ask Lotus directly but not had the chance. Would Lotus ever consider building a 2-11 / similar but with a 3.5L unit or similar - i for one would love a Lotus, open, without it being so easy to completely have the pedal literally to the metal often .......
There are currently no plans for a larger engine for the car due to the weight issues that would create.
Apart from that this is the one of the best.

Ta
 

Posted by: maffoo Apr 8 2009, 07:55 AM

I nearly ran out of fuel at donnington yesterday. There were two bars left on the fuel guage but got starvation. When I got into the pit and turned off the car and turned on the ignition it was empty. Why would this be and is there something wrong with it. If its okay then can i get a more accurate guage?
Matt
This is an inherent problem with baffled tanks and is the same with all of the Elise/Exige/2Eleven. Fuel is pooled by the baffles in the area where the pump and fuel gauge device is until the cars rests and it drains to the rest of the tank giving a false high reading while in use. It can lead to people thinking they have surge much earlier than they would expect….

Posted by: ralf schmidt Apr 8 2009, 08:20 AM

Hello Nick,

I have only one question. I will start to drive with my 2-11 now. For how many kilometers should I drive with how many max. rpm ?
You should drive your car in a spirited manner but don’t thrash it. Do take the engine over 6k occasionally so that the second cam is used but don’t allow the engine to labour nor bounce it off the rev limiter. Make sure that you vary the revs and try to avoid full throttle regularly. The engine is manufactured to very close tolerances but it will benefit from being treated with respect in it’s early life.
Thanks for your answer

Ralf
 

Posted by: beats Apr 8 2009, 09:11 AM

Hello Nick, Paul here,
Bedding the big brakes in at Goodwood yesterday(thank Louie for his advice) and testing out the 260 upgrade. Second session, light breeze behind on the Lavant straight pulling over 8000 in 5th and still going(140+). Fantastic never seen more than 135, so as an experiment i took all the rear wing off(horizontal, i,ve drilled holes to make my standard wing adjustable) . Just the same speed so i put the wing back to original. After that and the rest of the day the top speed reverted to 130/135(the wind actually increased ) and so i was rather puzzled and i feel confident i,m exiting lavant corner consistently.
Is it possible the remap has been lost or is it atmospherics, temp,... surely not me!
PS. My final lap time of 1.25 is the same as last year.

The upgrade is fine, it cannot lose its code unless you download a new programme in with suitably equipped pc. The lost speed is almost certainly due to atmospherics and a 10mph tailwind generally equals a 10mph faster speed. The standard wing is really a spoiler to be precise and increasing it’s angle won’t particularly increase downforce but will greatly add to the drag.  Conversely reducing it’s angle will lose you downforce but will not help the drag much at all.  Put the carbon wing (which is a real wing rather than a spoiler) on if you want to play with adjustable aerodynamics.
 

Posted by: jules Apr 8 2009, 10:36 AM

1) When is the 211 being road legal in Europe (in France)?

The French authorities (DRIRE and UTAC) are a struggle but Lotus are working with them at present.
2) How much faster is the GT4 compared to the normal 211?

There are no statistics but it’s significantly faster, a lot faster than you would expect it to be.
Thank you
 

Posted by: maffoo Apr 8 2009, 11:48 AM

another thing, my rear number plate start to melt after a while due to it being so close to the exhaust. Should there be some sort of heat barrier?
thanks
Matt
The earlier cars had a simple folded alminium number plate bracket wich did allow the plate to get very hot, the later cars have a revised heat shield arrangement and a more substantial mounting bracket. A metal number plate might help.

 

 

[Scotty C]

Thanks to Nick and Bibs for that.

Some good reading during my tea break.

Scotty

[pgn340r]

Thanks a lot Bibs and Nick. It is obvious that a lot of thoughtand effort went to this. Well done guys

Paul

[lsb]

Thanks to you both for taking the time to do that.

[stephanie plum]

Thanks both for all that effort - much appreciated. Thanks for the response on the mounts - I was under the impression that they were some sort of must have, which is why I enquired. If current cars are all being built with the same mounts as mine, which it sounds like they are, then that's fine by me. Ref the tonneau - put me down for one for defo - and if there is some sort of pre production price even better, tho tbh,

[cncreffield@bluewin.ch]

thank you both, much appreciated

Well i am down for a cheap (er) sequential box, so 19 to go

Nick I am coming early may as per other thread, any chance of tonneau cover / fia seats (have already asked office on seats, but no answer yet)

[ads_green]

Tonneau too.

Would like to try the sequential box but may be interested.

[Mr.Oz]

Excellent info! Thanks!

[maxthegreyhound@yahoo.co.uk]

Thanks. Nick is always generous with his time, and thanks to you too for typing it up.

Ver interesting to learn how difficult it is to lose weight. I would have thought that the obvious way forward with engines was to plop in the one from the Evora - shouldn't imagine it will compromise many Evora or Elise sales.

[de_futter@msn.com]

Thanks to both Nick and Bibs for the time and effort.

I have found the information really useful and it will obviously help dispel a few myths/rumours.

Will be looking out for further info about the instruction day.

Del

[abrussich]

Excellent info and thank you Bibs and Nick for taking the time and effort to respond to everyone. It all just adds to the feel good about having the 2-11 factor.

Next weekend the 2-11 is goingt up against the prancing ony cars in a localm club on club meet. Stay tuned for post race reports ;-)

[bluken@cmcmmi.com]

Bibs & Nick,

Sorry for the delay in response. I've been out for a week. This was the first chance to chase down the forum results of both of your efforts. Thanks for the time taken. Good reading and even better information.

Bill