S1 Oil Dipstick Max & Min Markings

[GavinT]

I understand that early S1s left the factory with incorrect Max & Min Dipstick markings. Mine has been remarked at some point and looks like a good job but I would like to check it. Measuring from the lip of the dipstick down, so only the stick length that is inserted into the tube. Max line is at 8" 11/16 and Min line is at 9" 1/16. The total length of the dipstick that gets inserted into the tube is 10.5". If anyone can confirm these are good I would be most grateful.

Thanks Gavin.

[Paul Coleman]

I have an early S1 (30th off the production line) and my markings are...

MAX = 230mm

MIN = 240mm

TOTAL = 270mm

I wasn't aware that it may be wrong!!

Paul.

[GavinT]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the measurements. Tony K was the one that mentioned too me about the markings being incorrect on early S1's. When he was here last June he commented 'good your dipstick has been remarked'. Maybe it was just Federal cars that had the problem?. Perhaps Tony will pickup on this topic and explain.

Gavin.

[Paul Coleman]

Maybe it was just Federal cars that had the problem?.

No I don't think it was only Federal cars as my MAX mark is in the same place as your MIN mark? My MIN and MAX marks are 10mm lower than yours.

Cheers, Paul.

[Tony K]

Hi fellas,

Here is what I know: Early S1s sold in the States had the markings too LOW on the stick, causing owners to put *just barely enough* oil in their cars. Later S1s had the markings higher (in the correct place). I was first told of this problem in 1997 by the owner of 200H, a March 1977 build date car, whose dipstick was re-marked back when the car lived in California. Apparently this used to be relatively "common" knowledge in S1 circles.

My cars are stored away in the cold right now, but here's a quick rundown/description:

- The earlier, incorrect markings will have close to an inch of space between the MIN and MAX markings, whereas on the later, corrected markings, there is only about 1cm between MIN and MAX.

- The MAX marking on the early, incorrect stick is in almost the same place as the MIN marking on the later, correct stick. ()

- The changeover was some time in mid-1977.

- If you have an early dip stick, fill it to somewhere on the "A" in word MAX, and you'll be about right.

- If you have an early dip stick and it is not topped up to MAX (which is actually MIN), you may experience a loss of oil pressure when going around a sweeping bend to one side (I don't remember if it's left or right). I tested this on 155H (my white S1), and indeed saw the oil pressure drop when the level was near (but above) MIN on the stick.

- I was once given an explanation for the incorrect/change in markings, but I don't remember. I think it had something to do with another 907 variant having either a different sump or a longer tube, for which the sticks were correct, and those sticks were simply incorrectly put into S1s. Something like that.

If I get the chance, I'll pull dip sticks from 454H and 155H and measure/photo for comparison. But the description above should be pretty useful.

Cheers,

Tony

[GavinT]

A metal ruler would of been better but here's my measurements and from what point..

[USAndretti42]

I used to work for someone who, among other things, was responsible for the dipstick on the DeLorean when he was at Lotus. From what I heard, it went through so many iterations, he was presented with a mounted dipstick when he left.

Sounds like owners of early S1's should check their dipsticks when changing their oil. Drain the old oil and add the amount of oil indicated in the manual less what is supposed to be the difference between Max and Min. Give the oil 10 minutes to settle and check it. That should be your minimum level. Then add oil to to make up the difference between Min and Max, a liter, I think but I'm sure someone can give the right number. Give it another 10 minutes and dip again to get your maximum level.

[Frank]

woo just measured my dipstick and it is different again - max 8 7/8 inch and min 9 3/16 which is greater still...? 78 s1?

[Hemlock]

My min slot = 3cm.

My max slot = 4cm.

The A in MAX = approx 5,2cm.

[Tony K]

In the first photo below are two S1 dipsticks side by side, pretty close to exactly lined up. The one with the markings higher up the stick (and Min/Max closer together) is from 454H. The other stick, with the wider rage between Min and Max, with markings further down the stick is from 155H. Although not seen in the photo, 454H's stick has a red handle, and 155H's stick has a white handle.

I don't know what engine configuration used the stick with the lower markings; all that I am relatively sure of is that it's for/from an earlier engine. Gavin recently called me with a reference from SJ Sportscars with an engine number around 13XXX as where the changeover was from the lower/longer (earlier) markings to the higher/narrower (later) markings. As Gavin noted to me, his engine number was on the later side of the line, meaning his car should have the later dipstick. But there were apparently a bunch of S1s (at least Federal cars) that had the later engine (which should have the higher markings) but came with the earlier stick.

As you can see from the markings above, the MIN for the earlier stick is in almost the same place as the MAX on the later one! One can imagine the trouble that could result! And indeed, if I fill 155H to somewhere in the "safe" range below MAX and drive it like that, it will lose oil pressure on a sweeping turn (don't remember if LH, RH, or both).

I have seen several S1s over the years that had the sticks re-marked like Gavin's. For as long as I've been seriously "into" S1s, I've been aware of this. Before I owned my first S1 (when I was searching for my first one), I was told of this, and one of the things I picked up from other S1 owners was to "FILL THE STICK TO THE "A" IN "MAX".)

I don't know what the internal change to the engine was that resulted in the change in dip stick; in the past I've speculated about sumps, tube length, oil return galleys in the cam boxes and head, cross-drilled crankshafts, etc., but never heard any solid answer.

But one thing that is apparent and that I had heard from multiple sources years ago is that a bunch of S1s got the earlier stick and that they (all of them? or only after a certain unit number?) were supposed to have the later stick with the higher markings. It appears that the cars that got the wrong sticks were built in the first half of 1977 (at least -- maybe earlier [late 1976], too -- don't know). For Federal (H) cars, this would be chassis in the 100s through maybe/probably somewhere in the 300s. Very few G (domestic) cars were built in this time period, and again, I don't know how far back the dipstick change goes, whether it applies to all Esprits (change before or for Esprit production) or if it occurred some time early in S1 production.

Below are the same two dipsticks with a ruler by them; Please note that they are not aligned in the photo below (look at the collars) -- so do not use this photo as a rule or to make markings -- this is just for approximation. (I had difficulty holding all three and angling it toward the light.) Note that 454H's stick is positioned "lower" in this photo than 155H's. Sorry about that. Use the top photo in this thread for comparing markings, as when that photo was taken, the sticks were more closely aligned.

GAVIN (and anyone else) -- all this photography and talk, and I still haven't posted actual lenghts . . . . if you still need it, I'll go and take careful measurements from both 454H and 437H . . . But in a nutshell, Gavin, I'd trust the markings on your dipstick. They may be a bit higher than on 454's, but that's probably a good thing. I regularly overfill 454's a little bit (up to somewhere below the "M" in MAX) because the safe zone is so ridiculously narrow, and I haven't seen any adverse effects from doing so (no frothing, etc.). The little bit of extra oil a little margin of safety to me.

Cheers,

Tony

Edited April 12, 2010 by Tony K

[GavinT]

From SJs:

DIP STICK (Up to engine number 13277 Blue handle) Part# C907E0632F

DIP STICK (From engine number 13277) Part# D907E0632F - Possibly red handle ??

From Lotus Parts Manual:

Dipstick C907E0632ZB, Prior to Engine number 13277

Dipstick D907E0632ZJ, From Engine number 13277 inc. and ALL Federal

The Parts Manual also shows a different part# for block castings:

Cylinder Block and Main Bearing Housing Assy. B907E0708S, Prior to Engine number 13277

Cylinder Block and Main Bearing Housing Assy. C907E0708K, From Engine number 13277 inc. and ALL Federal. For use with Cross Drilled Crankshaft Only.

So Tony you were correct in thinking the change was related to the cross drilled crank.

Edited April 12, 2010 by GavinT