Traction control

[bobbak]

Hi all was reading a car magazine that belonged to my mate's son and in it was an artical about an aftermaket traction controll system that is supposed to be the best on the market with three different types available ranging from around 300 to 900 quid the manufacturer reckons the results are nothing less than posative.

to say the least I have posted the link please review it see what you think maybee we might be able to talk them into letting LEW do a trial to confirm its sutability for our cars for those of you that might want the option of TC.

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control

regards rob

[Jonathan]

If it works I'd buy one, spent too much time with mine to lose it to another silly mistake.

[superdavelotus]

Very interesting Rob. Not sure if I'd prefer to spend

[Nigel]

Rob

I would be interested in this system as I spend a lot of the time driving on part throttle at this time of year.

I don't mind second gear wheelspin but it's the unexpected third gear wheelspin that puts the sh**s up me.

Nigel

[superdavelotus]

Nigel, the boost controller I've installed has helped me on my V8. In really slippery weather I've atually turned my boost right now so there's hardly any boost at all. Works well in icy conditions.

Rob

I would be interested in this system as I spend a lot of the time driving on part throttle at this time of year.

I don't mind second gear wheelspin but it's the unexpected third gear wheelspin that puts the sh**s up me.

Nigel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[bobbak]

I have decided that I am going to call these people in the morning and if they can do it have one fitted to my car It is in with pat thomas for the week having the engine rebuilt anyway so what better time than now.

Once fitted I will review it and write it up and send it to kato for inclusion in the mods section of LEW I will also try and get them to agree to a discount for esprit owners who want it not sure how that will be recieved at this time keep you all posted on that one.

Im going to go for the top line version and will be present when fitted so I can interogate the fitter to see whats involved might be easy to do just look or sound complex.

will take lots of pictures of everything so all know whats involved and if it all works as they promise it will on thier web site then no more brown trousers for me!!

keep you posted!!!

regards rob

[fmxa]

Looks very interesting, keep me posted on how it goes ....

[Jonathan]

Good on ya - do please let us know what the score with it is.

Best of luck with the rebuild.

[Callaway]

Hi all was reading a car magazine that belonged to my mate's son and in it was an artical about an aftermaket traction controll system that is supposed to be the best on the market with three different types available ranging from around 300 to 900 quid the manufacturer reckons the results are nothing less than posative.

to say the least I have posted the link please review it see what you think maybee we might be able to talk them into letting LEW do a trial to confirm its sutability for our cars for those of you that might want the option of TC.

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control

regards rob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alot of the Supra guys use the racelogic system and they rave about it! If you search the message boards on Supraforums.com (may have to sign up to search) for racelogic you will find many post w/ reviews of the unit. Always wanted to get one when I was going to get a supra! Just thought I would pass this info along!

-Erik E.

1994 Esprit S4

[Splashout]

Again when i had my 300zx loads of the owners there had it and raved about it also.

[jaysingh]

I'd definately be interested. Just browsed the Racelogic website...it looks like a great modifcation. I think 900 pounds is reasonable and look foward to seeing how you get on. Thanks for mentioning it on the forum.

[Jonathan]

And there was I thinking I've run out of money to spend on the car LOL.

[bobbak]

Ok guys been on the phone most of this morning to the garage that sells and fits the race logic system and as stated above in other replys mostly this system is fitted to things like high powerd toyota's and as standard by TVR now as a system of choice.

Anyway having discussed the system in detail with the fitter there a few things you might like to know about.

HOW THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS.

This is kind of simple really cant really belive no one came up with it sooner:

for cars that are equiped with an engine managment system the system is connected directly to the engine ECU (engine controll unit) the area responsible for injector sequencing ie throttle displacement related to number of times injectors operate to inject fuel into the cylnder chamber.

because the system is also tied into wheel rotation cars with an ABS system are particularly suited to the race logic set up.

if the wheel speed sensors detect one of the drive wheels slowing in relation to the oposing wheel which would be indicative of a skid situation arising(lack of traction) within a thousandth of a second the race logic system recognises this and acts to reduce power in relation to throttle position.

For example using a injector sequence of 5 injections as a standard if the system detects a skid/loss of traction it will automatically cut the operation signal to an injector on a ratio of 1 in 5 so therefore reducing the power output to the drive line by a 1/5th if this is not sufficiant to correct the loss of traction then it evolves to 2 in 5 thus reducing the power output by 2/5ths and so on until traction is regained and then it automatically re-instates the lost 5ths on a pro rata basis.

the result is that you get an extremely stable platform.

CAN IT BE FITTED TO ALL ESPRITS BOTH INJECTED AND NORMALLY ASPERIATED.

there is no mandatory requirment to have fuel injection we have the ability to fit to NA cars aswell. the results are the same

WHAT NEGATIVE POINTS ARE THERE TO CONSIDER ABOUT FITTING THIS SYSTEM.

There are no real negatives to this system except 1 for owners of high powerd cars especially those with blown sports exhausts ie de-catted straight through sports pipes when the system is in full operation because of the way in which the system cuts power to reduce injector performance the engine is essentially experiencing a technical missfire at this point for the duration that the injector sequence is being modified.

This while on normal cars is not an issue can in extreme cases on de-catted cars with straight through sports pipes fitted the car can sound very much like a group b rally car.

OK WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE AND IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN DO IF MEMBERS OF LEW WANT A SYSTEM FROM YOU.

The price differs dependant on what you want to be fitted but as a general rule the more I do the cheaper it gets.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

Well the first esprit that I do will be the most expensive as I will have to take quite a while working out the layout of the system and manufacuring the wiring looms to enable me to interface the engines managment system correctly together with routing ect ect.

However the more esprits that I install the system on the cheaper I can do the system.

WOULD YOU CONSIDER A DISCOUNT FOR FORUM MEMBERS IF THEY CHOSE TO COME TO YOU RATHER THAT ANOTHER DEALER SOMWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY.

YES NO PROBLEM!!

I will have to work out a percentage of the total cost of each install and then I see no reason why if the lotus forum members come here I can offer a very competative incentive to each person that has a system fitted.

OK SO I WANT THE TOP OF THE RANGE SYSTEM CAN I FITT IT MYSELF AND SAVE ON INSTALATION COSTS.

yes if you want to fit it yourself you can anyone with a reasonable knowledge of auto electrics could do it but the system will not work from the off.

WHY?

Well although the mechanical instalation may be correct the system has to be set up using our computers during this process we map the systems settings and make adjustments to the sequencing so as to maximise the sytems on road performance.

OK HOW MUCH IS THE TOP OF THE RANGE SYSTEM GOING TO COST ME FITTED?

the most expensive it can possibly be is

Edited February 13, 2006 by bobbak

[Jonathan]

***** 5 stars, excellent work !!!

My thoughts were leaning on the ABS with respect the the speed sensor, but did think how it was going to work on the side that has the ABS and speedo sensor, but as you say it compares the two, so I'm guessing it's also work on wheel spin as well as loss of traction ?

Whole thing sounds really promising - expensive but if it means I can corner now without being ultra paranoid about the back end slipping out it'll give me

[jeff_hooper]

WHAT NEGATIVE POINTS ARE THERE TO CONSIDER ABOUT FITTING THIS SYSTEM.

There are no real negatives to this system except 1 for owners of high powerd cars especially those with blown sports exhausts ie de-catted straight through sports pipes when the system is in full operation because of the way in which the system cuts power to reduce injector performance the engine is essentially experiencing a technical missfire at this point for the duration that the injector sequence is being modified.

This while on normal cars is not an issue can in extreme cases on de-catted cars with straight through sports pipes fitted the car can sound very much like a group b rally car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One thought strikes me is what is actually happening with this 'Group B rally car popping and banging thing'. This suggests to me fuel being burnt in the exhaust. In which case on standard cars with Cats can this fuel/popping and banging damage the cats? I have already had to have a Cat recored - blamed on a sticking waste gate and or faulty O2 sensors resulting in excess fuelling getting to the cats?

It may be its not fuel causing the popping and banging or it may for such short periods it would not affect the normal life of a Cat but its something to consider/ask? You wouldn't be happy if you were a serial abuser of your shiney new very impressive traction control system then found you needed a pair of recored or god forbid new Cats at 1,000 2,000 or even 10,000 miles later..

Jeff

That said I really do like this idea..

Edited February 13, 2006 by jeff_hooper

[Gav]

Hi All. Thought I'ld chip in as I have one of these systems on my 97 V8. Its the race logic 6 channel system - It was fitted by the owner before the one before me. When I bought the car the guy said that it did work but wasn't at the time and he didn't know why. On investigating I found out it was cos it was disconnected!!

Anyway - got it all sorted. Its a little harsh at times but I think that is because 2 pots are still running when the others are cut. But all in all it is very good. I wanted to get it going so those surprise 3rd gear spins don't happen. And it certainly works. An excellent gadget!

For those of you who are more racey, the system has 5 different levels of allowable slip before the system cuts in, from wet to 20% slip.

On the response from the fitter - If you know about auto electrics and computers you can fit it. Mine sits on top of the ECU and taps into the loom there. Cables are also run through the car to the ABS up front. Revs pickup comes from the ECU output to the tacho. As for the setup, a simple PC with a serial port is all you need. Racelogic provide the software (downloadable from their website), set the system up to match you car i.e. Which wheel is which, which are the driven wheels, what are the tyre sizes etc. no rocket science. You can also play with the cut sequence if you wish but there is a simple setup if you want it.

Good thing is the software will also give you real time plots of each wheel speed and amount of cut applied by the system - very useful for diagnosis. Example from mine attached (change .jpg ext to .dat) - you need the racelogic software to view it. Drag a window around a section to zoom in.

I'll be at the oxford meet if anyone wants a look. Otherwise if I can help with details on how to fit then please shout.

Cheers Gav

[docf]

The new exige and elise models come with an almost identical system. Hardware might be a little different but operation is exactly the same. Detect slip via wheel speed sensors, cut spark, make cool popping noises.

[scoule]

The new exige and elise models come with an almost identical system.  Hardware might be a little different but operation is exactly the same.  Detect slip via wheel speed sensors, cut spark, make cool popping noises.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do they cut spark or cut injectors? I would've thought cutting injectors is less likely to cause cat problems with unburnt fuel heading through them when hot.

[bobbak]

Do they cut spark or cut injectors? I would've thought cutting injectors is less likely to cause cat problems with unburnt fuel heading through them when hot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

from my understanding so far it cuts the injector operation but will ask the question

regards bob

[Vulcan Grey]

from my understanding so far it cuts the injector operation but will ask the question

regards bob

Cutting spark is probably safer due to no chance of running lean...

Cutting fuel would mean instant lean condition.

[Simon350S]

Having read the literature it states that non fuel injected models need to be fitted with a "coil interface/spark cut" unit.

This would mean that one is not already fitted hence it must be an injector cut out. This is explained on their site although they do not actually state that it comes with an injector cutout.

Maybe they just tap into the existing rev limiter built into the ECU?? This will give them a cycled injector cut as explained in the literature.

Simon

[Simon350S]

Page 7 of the installation manual explains about the Injector cut and shows a diagram of how the system requires splitting of the injector input wire and the inline connecting of the racelogic system.

Question answered. Happy to help

Simon

[bobbak]

Having read the literature it states that non fuel injected models need to be fitted with a "coil interface/spark cut" unit.

This would mean that one is not already fitted hence it must be an injector cut out. This is explained on their site although they do not actually state that it comes with an injector cutout.

Maybe they just tap into the existing rev limiter built into the ECU?? This will give them a cycled injector cut as explained in the literature.

Simon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep Thats what I thought.

I spoke to the fella at the garage that is going to install my unit for me, and I asked him to register as a user for this forum and to say a few words on this thread and answer questions on this product.

If he does so is going to be usefull but it's entirly up to him if he does.

regards rob

[jimc]

Hi,

Have read this with interest.

Is there any information on how the Racelogic system interacts with an LSD.

And, given finite resources, what is the better option, an LSD, traction control, or both?

I had planned to go for an LSD when I upgrade my gearbox, but now I am not so sure. In any case, want to fix the breaks first.

Jim

[M Blur]

Guys - I arranged a group buy some tme ago on zroadster.net for my M Roadster and bunch of others - if you have ABS then it's an easy fit and is IMHO the best aftermarket system available.. it works extremely well and the M is far less well mannered than the Esprit.

If you go in with a group buy I can speak to Mike Broadbent for you and get you a good price if someone is prepared to collect payments etc.

As to fitting then as long as you're competent with auto electrics then no problem though you will be splicing into the ecu, ignition and injectors looms as well as the ABS sensors.. I paid

Edited February 16, 2006 by M Blur