Esprit V8 cam belt change in Aberdeen?

[T-Man]

Hello,

I've a yr 2000 Esprit V8 that's due a cam belt change. Is there anywhere in Aberdeen or surrounding area that you folks know of, or could recommend, that'd be able to do this job? Or is it Muarry Lotus Edinburgh for this?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited April 22, 2011 by T-Man

[Bibs]

Brian (Bingoking) is about to drop his car off at Murrays for the same job. From what I hear, Craig the workshop manager there is excellent

[bingoking]

Adam

I see you have found LEGS on the forum.

Bibs is correct, my car 2003 V8 is due to go in to Murrays next month for the belts and B service.

I know they have done a number of V8's and that the price of servicing for example includes items that other garages charge extra for.

Craig Moncrieff (Monty) is currently on holiday but back next week.

He will personally supervise the job and I am sure his price to you will be keen, especially if you become a full member of the forum as you will be able to get discount there.

As for other places in the Aberdeen area, Gordon Masson on this forum may be able to advise you of an alternative so you can get a competitive quote.

Andrew C (Andrew Laing) and Hegerley (Mark Rigby) also have V8's and I know that Andrew had his belts done recently.

I am sure they won't mind if you PM them to ask about Murray's service.

How about posting some photographs of your car?

Murray Motors Link

[hedgerley]

I've had a couple of cambelt services done by Murray, on this and my previous Esprit. Al has done this and lots of other work for me over the past 6 years. At all times the service has been excellent, they do a very thorough job. Craig will keep you fully informed (before starting any expensive remedial work for example) and they don't mind fitting 'customer supplied items', in my case a refurbed gearbox, new oil coolers, refurbed radiator, new cats etc. and will always go the extra mile to fettle the car. Mine suffered a small accident whilst in their care at the last service (not their fault) but the repair was carried out immediately at their cost and they did a very good job. They even offered 'compensation' without me asking......

Mine will be going in in a couple of weeks and although it can get expensive (its a Lotus Esprit after all) I think they are excellent value for money given the care and attention and, well, just their attitude.

Brian - who is this Mark Ridgy?

Edited April 22, 2011 by hedgerley

[bingoking]

I've had a couple of cambelt services done by Murray, on this and my previous Esprit. Al has done this and lots of other work for me over the past 6 years. At all times the service has been excellent, they do a very thorough job. Craig will keep you fully informed (before starting any expensive remedial work for example) and they don't mind fitting 'customer supplied items', in my case a refurbed gearbox, new oil coolers, refurbed radiator, new cats etc. and will always go the extra mile to fettle the car. Mine suffered a small accident whilst in their care at the last service (not their fault) but the repair was carried out immediately at their cost and they did a very good job. They even offered 'compensation' without me asking......

Mine will be going in in a couple of weeks and although it can get expensive (its a Lotus Esprit after all) I think they are excellent value for money given the care and attention and, well, just their attitude.

Brian - who is this Mark Ridgy?

Never heard of him!

[hedgerley]

Interestingly my surname derives from an old Lancastrian word meaning 'the farmer who lives on the ridge'.

Were you just being very smart?

[GordonMasson]

I get Westhill Service Station to do my servicing.

My car is a GT3 so it’s a bit simpler but they do decent job and its cheaper than Lotus rates so it just depends how deep your pockets are.

They have changed my cam belt twice with no problems. Once while it was in the car and once while the engine was out (just to be safe).

Last job they did was to take the engine out, replace the manifold, change the clutch, fit a replacement gear box, skim the fly wheel MOT and a few other bits and bobs.

I don’t have the receipt to hand but I think that ran to about £1100 inc VAT but with me supplying the bits.

The only mechanic they use for the Lotus is an ex Mercedes Mechanic... think he was either a senior mechanic or head mechanic at Calendars in Aberdeen.

If you are interested its 01224 732336 and ask for Derek. He knows my car and also did a rebuild on a dry sump Esprit.

[T-Man]

Been a long time coming but I’m returning to this thread to give my review of Murray Lotus, and the assessment of the service and work I had completed. It’s long but I want to be as detailed as I can be so I fairly relate my experience with Murray.

I have a friend who’s a mechanic that I trust and I initially asked if he could do the belt change. He investigated the process and said it was beyond the equipment range of his garage and advised going to Murray Lotus as he believed them to have an excellent reputation.

So I contacted Murray and the car was booked in for June 6th for A service and belts change, but after Murray got the car inspected it over a fortnight, the following assessment of repairs were identified:

Cost to carry out B Service + Belts (Required) £1800

Additional Parts required to complete B + Belts Service (Required) £370.45

Noise when engine running (Required) £345.05

Earth Strap (Required) £19.58

Radiator and T piece Junction corroded and Leaking (Required) £586.66

Both Turbo Actuators required (Required) £198

Oil leaks from drive shaft seals and gear selector seal (Required) £145.68

Both Turbo chargers outer casings split and internal damage to Fins (Required) £1120.8

Turbo charger p&p £21.59

Oil Cooler Split pipe (Required/Advise) £220.8

Subtotal £4,828.61

Alternator & water pump £292.8

Abs warning Light on (As a safety matter I would recommend that this is carried out) £129.76

Replace defective Alarm Fob (Advise) £83.77

Air conditioning suction pipe and condenser replacement (Advise) £876

All four tyres perished and worn (Advise recheck replaced 3 Months depending on use) £850

Front and rear Brake discs corroded (Advise recheck replaced 3 Months depending on use) £1279.2

Refurbishing alloys £125

Bodywork repair to rear guard (wheel cover) £120

Subtotal £3,756.53

Total £8,585.14

The first section details what was described as required or essential, and the second what could be called optional if finances allowed. In the event I requested all the above to be undertaken.

Given the bill, and my complete ignorance when it comes to car mechanics I asked the following question of Craig prior to work commencing (copied from our email exchanges):

Me: And since I’m considering all this(!), and as I’m a completely mechanical naïve and thinking surely that’s all the car would need to take it back up again…

Craig: Yes the car would be a good mechanical example , There are some items that have wear and tear but nothing to cause concern.

I took Craig at his word and authorised the above work to go ahead.

I don’t believe I was advised to undertake any work that Murray didn’t genuinely believe required attention. I don’t believe they indulged in unnecessary padding of the bill and I believe Craig did his utmost to keep costs from rising. Murray were able to obtain significant discounts on Lotus parts and these savings were passed onto me. Also a number of checks and fixes were absorbed by other costs or just attended to as a matter of course. I had my alloys refurbished at cost to Murray, at a price I wouldn’t have been able to attain anywhere else. I also ran everything past my mechanic friend and he saw nothing amiss or unreasonable in his opinion.

During the course of this work Craig called to update me just about everyday. I was never in the dark in regards to any aspect of the repairs or stage of work.

After nearly two months I collected the car on Sunday 24th July.

Initially I was very happy. The only ‘problem’ I did note later was that the exhaust pipe on the left had side was hanging very visibly lower than the pipe to the right. The car hadn’t gone in like that and it certainly looked ‘off’ to the rear. If I could see it, I did have to wonder why no one else at Murray didn’t and they were happy to release the car like that, given from what I’ve read their attention to detail? However I had to return for a check-up a month later and was booked in for August 24th. I noted the exhaust issue to Craig ahead of this and was assured it would be addressed.

Prior to setting off I checked the oil, I always do as a matter of course after cleaning my car, and found it was reading around half full? That struck me as odd as I’d only had the car back a month, driven only as far as Edinburgh to Aberdeen and then around town in the few weeks or so I’d had the car…and ensuring the oil level is correct is surely a fundamental of a (£1,800) service? I noted that on arrival at Murray and Craig said it was due to new turbos being in place that guzzle oil as they bed in? I quizzed that with my mechanic friend and whilst he said that could be the case he doubted they’d drink half of it, especially given my use of the car.

I collected my car at the end of the next day. The exhaust pipes had been secured, and I’ve no doubt they’re fine…but they are not as were, and do hang lower on the car than originally. That would be my only ‘complaint’ but other than that I was satisfied. Provided the oil level had been topped-up, and it was, I wasn’t overly concerned with the explanation.

Over the course of the next few weeks though, a niggle started to get worse and worse, and perhaps that was my tuning in to it – and that was a rattling/buzzing sound from the rear that was very noticeable in town driving or anything under 40mph. It sounds like it’s coming from the engine and is more pronounced as the accelerator is engaged so that’s where I imagined it stemmed from, though I am as I’ve said completely mechanically ignorant: there’s nothing wrong with my hearing though.

I had a wedding to attend in Cheltenham in September and elected to drive. Did it in 3 legs during the course of the day and arrived without incident at my destination. My partner had cause to get out and ask directions in Cheltenham and when she got back in said the car did not sound well! She said it was making an “awful noise from the back”. When we got to the hotel I parked out and got out to check what she meant before turning the engine off and she was quite right – that car did not sound healthy!

We stayed two days and on leaving on the Sunday afternoon I started up and the car struggled to start like the battery was going flat and the head lights popped up too?! I’d just driven that car 800 miles a day and a half before…and it reacts like I’m starting it up after a fortnight undriven in the cold?? That wasn’t right.

It was bright sunny day on the way home and caught in traffic, and with the sun streaming in, I turned on the aircon. We’d used it a couple times since getting the car back and each time would only have it on a few minutes before the car felt like an icebox – which is just as you’d expect it. On this occasion it was just a light cooling breeze coming out the vents and even before I said it my partner said, “That’s not working!” And it wasn’t. Given what I’d paid to get the aircon repaired I wasn’t too happy with that either! However other than that we travelled home without incident.

On the Monday following this I emailed Craig to report these issues and he agreed the car needed another check over. However I don’t exactly live next door to Murray Lotus so would have to come down at a later date to have these problems addressed. I also reported the buzzing/rattling sound that seemed to me much like the engine noise that I was billed £345 as above to rectify.

I returned to Murray on Friday 18th November to have these issues addressed. Craig told me he’d had problems with the quality of gas from the supplier re the aircon and that was probably the cause. My mechanic friend has since told me it’s one type of gas that’s used and the only thing that could’ve caused my aircon to stop working in such a short space of time is a leak, not the ‘quality’ of gas. I don’t know. I’d like to think I wasn’t getting flannelled, but in all honesty I was starting to wonder given the issues I’d experienced and the explanations I was getting from Murray…

Craig called me on the Friday evening and his initial diagnosis of the engine noise was a drive or crankshaft something? I don’t recall exactly now and don’t want to misquote him. I joked about the price and he assured me that if that was the source he was mindful of what I’d already spent this year and would do his best to keep the cost down.

I left the car with Murray for the week and during that time Craig called me to say the aircon was fixed, and that doing that had also cured the rattling/buzzing noise(!) I admit I was sceptical on hearing that, but he assured me there was “no noise now”. So I accepted his explanation and word on the matter.

I collected the car on the Sunday afternoon. As soon as I started pulling out of Murray car park I could hear the exact same rattling/buzzing noise coming from the rear. To call me and tell me, “there’s no noises now”, and then have that happen… *shakes head* If Murray couldn’t hear that and were happy to put the car out and on its way to a customer like that…then I wasn’t arguing further with them… To be honest, I can’t say I was surprised. Topping up the gas in the aircon as a fix…?

The car was due its MOT on 11th Jan this month. I returned to the garage that my friend works for and he assured me it would ‘pass’. He knew what I’d spent on the car in the last year and the work I’d had done on it, so was confident before he even tested it that it’d pass with flying colours. If it didn’t he said, then there’s something up with Murray Lotus!

It failed.

My friend said he’d taken it easy on the car, but he couldn’t pass it. It failed on the following issues:

001: Nearside headlamp aim too high

002: Offside headlamp aim too high and too far to the right

003: Offside front (to hose) brake pipe excessively corroded.

Point 003 was noted as an advisory in my previous MOT.

The garage made the repairs, it was retested it and it subsequently passed. The following advisories were noted:

Measurements

Brake Advisories: RBT Front Brake Imbalance: 20% corrected by garage.

001: Nearside front (to hose) brake pipe slightly corroded.

002: Nearside rear brake pipe slightly corroded.

003: Nearside rear (both hoses) brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules.

004: Offside rear (both hoses) brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrules.

005: Power steering pipe(s) or hoses(s) slightly corroded.

006: Offiside outer front track rod end ball joint dust cover deteriorated, but preventing the ingress of dirt.

007: Nearside outer front track rod end ball joint dust cover, but preventing the ingress of dirt.

008: Nearside rear (at joint to tail section) exhaust has minor leak of exhaust gases.

009:Offside rear (at joint to tail section) exhaust has minor leak of exhaust gases.

010: Nearside coil spring corroded.

011: Offside side coil spring corroded.

012: Nearside outer front anti-roll bar has slight play in a pin/bush.

013: Offside outer front anti-roll bar has slight play in a pin/bush.

014: Front brakes only just met the front brake imbalance requirements. It would appear that the braking system requires adjustment or repair.

015: front wiper blade torn at ends but still cleaning screen.

016: Oil leak at gearbox appears to be from both driveshaft seals.

017: Slight oil leak from oil cooler pipes beside filter housing.

018: Seepage of coolant from front rubber hose to metal front to rear pipes.

Text re this from my friend: “Yeah, I thought exactly that when MOTing it. I was very easy on it as well. As you u can see from the list of advisories its far from perfect & I also would have thought Lotus would have picked it all up!!!!”

So, after less than 6mths, and paying a bill of £8.5k, I have a car that initially failed its MOT, a host of advisories that never should have been there, many on work I'd paid Murray significant sums to correct/repair, and a buzzing/rattle from the rear that if I tried to sell that car tomorrow would be the first question any prospective buyer would enquire about.

I’ve tried to be as fair and honest as I can, have given kudos to Murray where due, but that’s my story. Take from it what you will. Would I return? I’d have to say not unless I absolutely had to. Repairs allowing I’d stick to my friend. Anything larger…well, I did consider it last summer, but I think I’d have the car transported to PNM Engineering and try them in future. Right now, I’m afraid the trust and confidence just aren’t there for me with Murray Lotus.

[hedgerley]

Whilst I can sympathise with your experience Adam I can only stick by my earlier comments/recommendation. Last May I had a similar amount of work done at Murray around my C service, including turbo actuator replacement, EGR pipe replacement, new exhaust, new rear discs, braided steel brake pipe fitment, new turbo oil and water pipes, aircon leak fix/recharge, driveshaft seals replaced and myriad other bits and bobs in preparation for its MOT - which it subsequently passed with NO advisories whatsoever. This lot cost over £5k.

They carried out major work on my previous Esprit V8-GT, including, at various times, turbo replacement, new radiator, new oil coolers, complete replacement of all oil pipes, front to back, new manifold bolts on the left side, new gearbox and tons of other stuff.

At no time have I ever been dissatisfied with the work carried out, nor have I had to take the car back subsequently to correct any niggles. Its been expensive but I still believe they are good value for money.

A lot depends on the car itself. My previous Esprit drained my bank account to the tune of almost £20k over three and a half years. In a similar period with this one I've spent a lot less than half that and to be honest a lot of the spend has been 'preventative' maintenance, such as the turbo oil/water pipes, turbo actuators and so on. I now have a couple of new turbos to put on and Murray will be doing that for me as well, again preventative maintenance as they are so badly corroded.

My first Esprit car was a money pit. My current one I would regard as typical for the marque/model, maybe less than some. Luck of the draw I guess. But as far as Murray are concerned, no complaints whatsoever.

Edited January 14, 2012 by hedgerley

[Loose Cannon]

Sorry to hear of your experience, £8.5k is a colossal amount of money, but then there was an awful lot of work there. If you are not mechanically minded and rely on main dealers to sort you out, you will get stuffed, it's a fact of life.

Personally I think Murray are very expensive and take advantage of the fact they are the only specialist for hundreds of miles, you are clearly at a disadvantage. You could combine a trip/holiday with some work elsewhere but it does sort of take the fun of things, plus if you have to take it back due to issues like yours it's impractical.

My car came with a full Murray history and it ran into tens of thousands. When I spoke to the first 2 owners they said they wouldn't return to Lotus ownership due to cost, but when I looked at the invoices some of it was just silly, like trailering the car from home to garage and back for a new starter motor, cost £550, or £600 to remove a spoiler (this is 10 years ago). They paid through the nose for convenience, and as such both parties deserved each other.

Being a pauper it wasn't likely I would use Murray, but I was severely narked with them when it turned out that the last service before I bought my car, allegedly a "C" fully stamped in the book, had just been a filter and oil change as it ocurred when part of their own used car stock. It was a factor in paying slightly over the odds, as I thought I had a few years before a hefty bill; as it was it was just as well I asked for a computer printout to confirm the exact work done or the belts may have become years overdue. A letter to Murrays went unanswered.

I know many forums like this don't "do" criticism of dealers or specialists (especially if they advertise) unless the management have been affected personally . Therefore the only thing to do is for forum mebers to reserve praise for truly outstanding service, not just the standard you would expect and pay for.

[T-Man]

@ hedgerley: I don’t doubt your experience with Murray, likewise I’m only relating my own. I’ve owned an Esprit since 2002 (S4 2002- 2005, V8 2006-present) so know what money pits they can be and know no amount of work undertaken is guarantee against something else going pop! However as can be seen from cross referencing the work Murray undertook, and my MOT failure two days ago and its accompanying advisories, many of those items should have been/were paid to be addressed, or at the very least brought to my attention. That is inexcusable.

@ LooseCannon: Yes, I have noted the glowing reviews of Murray on this board and I’ve have loved to have added to that catalogue. I’ve given them credit where due and refrained from undue criticism, and under the circumstances think I‘ve been very restrained. The reviews and recommendations on this board played a large part in my decision to go to Murray’s, and like yourself imagined going through with that work would perhaps excuse me from any hefty bills for a year or two, so admit to being fairly incensed following my MOT.

[GordonMasson]

Hi Adam

Really sorry to hear about all your problems. No one likes to hear stories like this but unfortunately i would think that most long term or multiple Lotus owners will have a tail to tell of some kind... hopefully not to the same extent!

In many cases this type of thing is due to people buying Lotus cars relatively cheaply and not realising that the general running and service costs are not in the same league as the equally priced Ford or BMW. That leads to cars getting into a bit of a state and for those of us who buy the older cars we often end up with the results.

I am guessing you have had yours from new(?) so I wouldn’t expect you would have those problems.

With regards to servicing, I wouldn’t be able to afford Murray Motors labour charges but I am very lucky that the garage I use have been great with both my S1 and my GT3.

So despite always hankering over a V8, perhaps I should be glad mine are 4 pots!

I haven’t seen many V8 Esprits in town but would i be right in thinking that yours is a black V8 that’s normally parked on the street with an outdoor car cover on it?

I did notice that one had been away for a while a few months back and thought perhaps it had been sold but i guess if it’s the same car then that might have been when it was down in Edinburgh???

My GT3 was garaged off road for the best part of a year when i wasn’t driving due to health issues and it certainly didn’t like the lack of use.

The V8 i am thinking about didn’t appear to be used very often and if that is yours then i wonder if the lack of use and outdoor storage has played a part in some of the problems?

That said it seems like you have been particularly unfortunate and where you might have the situation at your local Ford garage where an exhaust wasn’t fitted correctly, i certainly wouldn’t expect that of a performance car dealer.

Anyway, i hope that’s the end of your problems and the car gives you a trouble free 2012.

Hopefully we will see you at one of the LEGS breakfast club meetings or the other events this Scottish events this year.

Cheers

Gordon

Edited January 14, 2012 by GordonMasson

[scottmgibb]

Wow - those V8 bills are SCARY!! Think I will stick with my old N/A 4 pot and set of spanners for now...!

Good luck for the summer...!

Scott

[hedgerley]

I think Gordon has a point. My V8 has spent just about every night over the past 4 years in a heated, de-humidified garage with the battery conditioner plugged in (I work in London Monday-Friday most weeks) apart from the occasional stay at Edinburgh airport where I put it in the multi-story under cover (paying £106 for the privilege!) It gets a good work out every weekend so even though its a weekend toy it is still doing 6k-8k miles a year. And I can afford a reasonable amount of preventative maintenance. The best advice I got was use it or lose it - otherwise stuff is going to start seizing up.

Having said that my previous Esprit was treated just as well and as I said it was an absolute money pit. I wrote it off on black ice a month after £5k worth of work, including a new gearbox. As an indication of how expensive these things are, after shipping it to Hethel for a proper assessment (Murray were to busy at the time), the parts bill alone, with no labour, paint or VAT came to £27K

My conclusion is that every car is an individual, every experience on the road or at the garage is unique and personal. Past performance is no guarantee of future success, caveat emptor etc. etc. As I said in my previous post, its the luck of the draw. So let's carry on reporting our experiences, good or bad and avoid criticism of individual choices. It all makes for a good read.

Edited January 18, 2012 by hedgerley

[renmure]

Too late for me to offer any helpful input, but my last Esprit GT3 had previously been looked after by Carden Motors in Aberdeen for 2 (possibly 3) services. I recall that one of the mechanics was Lotus trained and they were very helpful, knowledgeable and accomodating when the car blew an oil cooler on the morning the new purchaser was flying up from Norwich to drive it way!!

[scottmgibb]

£27K??!! did they want to replace every part on the car...?! That is incredible!

[hedgerley]

Check out the photo on Wrecked Esprit. It doesn't look that bad, but from a bent chassis upwards, virtually everything had to be replaced apart from the interior and engine. It needed four new corners, a whole body shell (it completely sheared from the backbone), main radiator, both oil coolers, gear box, driveshafts, three wheels. The list goes on. It was written off for £15k which was exactly what I'd paid for it three and a half years earlier. So a good result. Apart from the nearly £20k I spent keeping it on the road of course......

A breakers yard was advertising it for £10k three weeks later.

[Bibs]

With a 'straight chassis'. I seem to recall that's when I fell out with Douglas Valley...

[hedgerley]

That's who it was, I couldn't remember Bibs, thanks. I do now recall posting a warning when I saw the advert. They mentioned a small handful of problems that needed to be fixed. That and the high price indicated a potential doer upper. Very disingenuous.

As to the chassis, Lotus thought it could be straightened on their jig but weren't promising anything. It was just about irreparable according to their experts.

[Bibs]

It was a 3 line advert and 1 of the lines mentioned the straight chassis. I told them they should be honest about the car and the MD of Douglas Valley questioned the size of my pecker. I've still got their ad and correspondence and have enjoyed turning people away from them ever since.

[Mike6]

Thank god I keep a set of spanners!. Just could not afford those prices, anyone owning a Lotus really should do the basic work. However looking at that list of advisorys reminded me of the list they produced on my Mondeo when it went for the MOT a few months ago. I know the garage well, even helping the examiner with the test and they have to list slight corrosion etc to cover their backs. They do this particularly for brake pipes and suspension components. I shouldnt worry, probably got years of life left in the parts.