Replacement (rubber) cam cover gaskets

[lotusesprits2]

Hi all,

Anyone used the replacement rubber cam cover gaskets available from the likes of Kent High Performance Engines?

The attraction is there's no need for sealant, they're re-useable and dare I say it they stop the inevitable oil leaks onto the exhaust.

They are a reasonable price.

I'm interested in anyone's experience with them and if they actually do what they say (no disrespect to the manufacturers/suppliers).

Thanks,

Will.

Edited June 17, 2012 by lotusesprits2

[andydclements]

The Jensen owners seem to use them.

[philleech]

Ive used two sets on my S1. I tightened the first set up too much to try and get a seal and split one, The second set seem to be keeping most of the oil in but I had to enlarge the holes in the middle of the gasket to fit the lugs on top of the cam carriers. Superglued them to the carriers then put the covers on tightened them finger just plus a little bit more. In my opinion they are better than the original paper ones but they are not a cure all. If your cam covers are bent (which I think mine must be slightly) then you might still struggle.

Phil

[lotusesprits2]

Cheers Phil, Andy - much appreciated.

At £26.99 plus p&p (a pair) they are still attractive (if they work!) over the traditional paper/fabric versions (£7.00ea plus p&P) but you do have to have straight covers and the surface areas need to be scrupulously clean.

It'd be interesting to find out if the torque settings need altering.

I'll wait for more feedback (fingers crossed).

For those that are interested, please see link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Esprit-Excel-Elite-Eclat-Sunbeam-Jensen-rubber-cam-cover-gaskets-/270957776484?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f16578e64

Thanks, Will.

[Tony K]

I don't think the rubber gaskets are worth half of the money that the fiber gaskets cost.

Every time somebody touts them, they note that you have to make everything super clean in order for them to work . . . and then they still work only so-so. Well, guess what? If you actually make everything just as clean and use a good sealant, the fiber gaskets work just fine. From the way people tout the rubber gaskets, it seems they never tried making the cam covers/housings clean and oil-free with the original gaskets, are only actually doing a good job of cleaning the parts now that they are using the rubber gaskets, and then attribute their non-leaking or semi-non-leaking cam covers to the gasket rather than their increased attention to cleaning and preparation.

My experience with the rubber gaskets is that they split, harden, or both. And they are a real trick to install in terms of keeping parts of them from squishing out as you go around the cam cover tightening the bolts. And then with a few heat cycles, with any gasket (rubber or fiber) you're going to have to re-check the tightness of the cam cover bolts; once that little bit of oil creeps out of the rubber gaskets, they're no better than anything else. And if you install them well and they actually last long enough to the next regular interval (i.e. the next valve clearance check), you'll find they have hardened so much that you wouldn't want to reuse them.

I'm a firm believer in cleaning everything thoroughly as a given, and then using the original gaskets with a high quality sealant such as Mercedes-Benz "Surface Sealing" (used for timing chain covers) or Victor Reinz "Reinzosil". And also, I would cut the three rungs out of the middle of the fiber gasket; they're just waiting to break loose, get minced by the cams, flow down to the sump and clog up the screen around the pickup tube.

I have nothing against the rubber gaskets; I get it that some people have success with them. I just don't think they are any real improvement over properly installed originals.

My .02

Cheers,

Tony

P.S. -- Check out this nice split, hardened rubber cam cover gasket that was installed last September on this S1 I just bought:

(yes, both intake and exhaust are leaking . . .)

[ramjet]

Our old Holden Commodore that we had used rubber cam cover gaskets, but the covers had a groove in them to locate the gasket. If you are dealing with two flat faces with no groove, the 'squishing' out becomes a much bigger problem obviously.

With flat faces I would have to agree that spotless cleaning and good sealant should suffice.

I have not tried (as I have not had to yet) one of the products like make-a-gasket (the stuff in a tube) on the esprit and am not sure if I would after having seen the results of some PO's work on here. I have, however, used that product on other engine applications with great success provided the instructions are followed to the letter.

[lotusesprits2]

Some good feedback so far!

There are many benefits to the forum but I'm always impressed at how all this combined experience helps us make much better informed decisions.

Based on what I've read already, and other non-forum feedback, I'm tending towards the traditional paper/fibre gaskets.

Tony K - where would I get my hands on the Mercedes-Benz "Surface Sealing" or Victor Reinz "Reinzosil"?

Have i read somewhere that RTV sealant is also good?

I completely agree on the essential preparation and cleaning irrespective of the gasket materials. The tip about removing the three rungs is very useful and makes sense. Thanks Tony.

Will.

[ramjet]

Ah. I am incorrect in my assumption of what we were talking about. I believe from Tonys pic we are talking about the end cover on the rocker cover? I was talking about the entire rocker cover, which is what I thought everyone meant by cam cover.

Silly me.

[Sir Paolo]

Gents, having read the rubber cam carrier saga in various threads with interest.

I've bought the rubber type, but have yet to fit them.

If I may ask a stupid question, why are rubber or paper gaskets such a PITA?

Are people having problems with leaks because of lack of cleanliness? Is it over or under torquing? Or is it that the castings for the cam carriers and covers are so mis-matched a perfect seal is impossible?

Theoretically, it shouldn't be that difficult to fit them and not have to check for leaks and re-torque every time you go out.

Am I missing something here?

[lotusesprits2]

Michael, I think the majorityare all talking about cam cover gaskets.

I think the majority view is that careful preparation, following the correct fitting procedures, and using proven materials is the key to success.

Therefore using the paper gasket, recommended sealant and taking the time to clean the surfaces thoroughly (and adhering to the correct torque measurements) should result in a quality outcome.

Makes sense really - why didn't I think of that????!!!!

I've answered my own question really - but this is what the forum is all about.

Will.

[Mesprit87]

Quality outcome if the cover is still straight...

[Tony K]

Ah. I am incorrect in my assumption of what we were talking about. I believe from Tonys pic we are talking about the end cover on the rocker cover? I was talking about the entire rocker cover, which is what I thought everyone meant by cam cover.

Silly me.

Michael -- I am talking about the entire cam cover; see that on the end of the cam cover, near the oil cap, the black rubber cam cover gasket is "squished" out of place and has cracked right along the edge of the cover.

- Tony

Will --

I buy the M-B Surface Sealing at the dealership. They normally don't sell this to the public (There doesn't seem to even be a part number for it), and one dealer had the nerve to ask $27 USD for one tube of it. Other dealers have charged me between $14 and $20 for it. I just started using Reinzosil because I suspect it might be the same thing, and it is much less expensive. It is a product of Victor Reinz, which I think is owned by Dana Corp. (large auto parts conglomerate). Victor Reinz is a brand of gaskets common among Porsches and German cars in the aftermarket. I buy it from a large European/Asian parts distributor near me. I would try a Porsche parts specialist such as Pelican Parts as the first place to look.

When removing or tightening the cam cover bolts, do it in sequence as if it were a cylinder head. This is both to prevent warping and to spread the load of compressing the gasket and sealant. After the engine has been through a couple of heat cycles and sat overnight, recheck the torque on the cam covers.

- T

[Tony K]

If I may ask a stupid question, why are rubber or paper gaskets such a PITA?

Are people having problems with leaks because of lack of cleanliness? Is it over or under torquing? Or is it that the castings for the cam carriers and covers are so mis-matched a perfect seal is impossible?

Theoretically, it shouldn't be that difficult to fit them and not have to check for leaks and re-torque every time you go out.

Am I missing something here?

The answers to you first three questions, Paul, are yes, yes and yes. All three.

You aren't missing anything, but if I may elaborate on one thing, it is the difficulty in getting and keeping the lower side of the exhaust cam housing clean when servicing an engine that is in the car and has run. It is leaned so far over that oil will continue to dribble out onto the mating surface no matter how thoroughly you clean it; kind of like when you remove and reinstall the sump with the engine in the car -- oil keeps seeping down from above. I'm talking about, of course, when the cam housings are still on the car and you are just sealing the covers after a clearance check or fixing a leak; if you had the housings off becase of replacing shims, you have a great opportunity to get them squeaky clean.

My procedure for doing the cam covers with the housings still on the engine goes something like this:

1) Before removing the cam covers, clean and degrease the cam housings/the area around the cam covers. I do this so I have a clean working area for later.

2) Stuff a paper towel in each spark plug well.

3) Stuff a whole lot of paper towel down by the exhaust manifld, frame tubes, etc. Lay a long stream of paper towel back and forth on top of it all below the exhaust cam cover about three sheets thick.

4) Break loose the intake cam cover bolts from ouside in in a star pattern. Then loosen them outside to inside in a star pattern. Pop the cover off.

5) Loosen exhaust cam cover bolts the same way. When you pop the cover off, do it in a manner that you are tilting it away so that it will catch some of the 50,000 gallons of oil that will spill when you remove it. Have paper towel ready, have paper towel or shop rag draped over part of the car so that when you carry the cam covers away it doesn't drip on the paint. I remove the boot carpeting whenever I do work.

6) Tear paper towels into smaller pieces and stuff them in the wells of the cam housing where the oil pools. As they become saturated, replace them.

7) Twist some pieces of paper towel into "snakes" that you can stick into the bolt holes in the cam housings. They will draw an amazing amount of oil out of those little (but deep) bolt holes.

8) Do this a few times, and then stuff fresh paper towels in everything and go and clean/repaint/prep the cam covers. Use a good degreaser and be thorough -- they seem to absorb oil. Clean the bolts thoroughly or use new ones, which you will clean, too. Meanwhile, on the cam housings, oil will continue to creep out of seemingly thin air and be absorbed by the paper towels.

9) Remove any traces of sealant, gasket, etc., from the mating surfaces.

10) Wipe everything down with rubbing alcohol or your favorite cleaning/prep agent. When you can wipe a white paper towel with rubbing alcohol or cleaning agent along the mating surfaces and it does not stain and it feels "squeaky clean", it is clean. Stuff paper towels in the wells of the cam housings to minimize leaking onto them.

11) Cut out the three rungs in the fiber gaskets.

12) Carefully curve the ends of the gasket into a saddle shape by hand so they almost just fit right into the cam covers. Your hands are obviously squeaky clean as you are doing all of this.

13) Smear a thin line of high quality sealant (I prefer Mercedes Surface Sealing) on each side of the gasket. Build up a little more at the corners and on the ends (over the saddles).

14) Fit the cam cover gasket into the exhaust cam cover. Work it into place. The sealant will hold it a little bit.

15) For the washers, I prefer to use conical sealing washers with the rubber bonded to the underside of the metal, but the stock washers work, too. Whatever washers or combination of washers you use, smear a little bit of sealant around the necks of the bolts right up against the head, slide the washer on, and smear a little more sealant around under the washer. If you use a metal washer with the stock rubber washer below, then do it again after those go on. The point is, you want a lttle bit of sealant squished between all layers of bolt/washer/cam cover.

15) Go back to the engine. PULL ALL PAPER TOWELS OUT of the exh. cam housing. Double check to be sure you have everything.

16) GIVE IT ANOTHER WIPE WITH ALCOHOL OR SOLVENT. Oil has almost certainly seeped in the time you were smearing sealant onto the gaskets and bolts. Again, squeaky clean and no staining of a white paper towel. (By the way, obviously you are using a good quality paper towel that is not leaving fibers everywhere. In the States, I have found that Scott brand works well and is cheap).

17) Now that you are absolutely sure it is clean, make sure the gasket is positioned inside the cam housing and put the cam housing in place, quickly. Have the bolts and your small 10mm socket/ratchet handy so that you can put them in and snug them down quickly.

18) Tighten them sequentially like a cylinder head. I use a small 1/4" drive ratchet and hold it by the head instead of out on the handle to get a better feel of how tight I am going and to give my fingers less torque/strength. I feel carefully for then they start to get tight, and I finish with a high quality inch-pound torque wrench. As you tighten the bolts, regularly check along the sides to see that the gasket is not squishing out or squishing in. I use my fingers to push the gasket flush or nearly flush with the edge of the cover on the long sides, and a small telescoping mirror to watch that the gasket isn't getting squished up into the cam housing. This is the one drawback of cutting out the rungs -- that it is easier for this to happen -- but it is easy to prevent from happening, and the reward/peace of mind not having something that can cause a loss of oil pressure is far worth the little bit of effort. If you didn't use too much sealant and the gasket was correctly located when you placed it on, it should not present a problem.

19) Same goes for the intake cam cover. The rule of smearing a little sealant on the bolts/washers goes for the throttle cable holder and the oil cap eyelet, too.

20) When all is installed, wipe the sealant off of the bolt heads so that they look pretty.

21) If you painted the cam covers, if you really want a concours-correct finish, prior to installing you should have very lightly machined off the new crinkle paint off of the fins/ribbs to give the exposed aluminum a machined look without cutting it down perceptibly. But if you're not going for an award at Pebble Beach, now would be a good time to carefully sand the crinkle paint off of the ribs with a block. A small paint brush and vacuum cleaner will take care of the dust/crumbs.

22) Consider fitting a new seal to the underside of the oil cap.

23) Wait for the sealant to cure fully before running engine.

24) Re-check tightness of bolts after a day or two and a few heat cycles.

Now I wrote it out as a lot of steps, but I am being as detailed as I possibly can. This is definitely one of those tasks that takes longer than it should, but don't let my long, over-detailed description blow it out of proportion. But do realize that if you're going to be careful and do it right, go all the way with it, go the extra mile so that you get it right the first time and don't have to do it again; the last thing you want is to go through all of this doing a 90% job only to have it leak -- that would be a big waste of time.

I'm happy to say I don't have issues with leaky cam covers. After a few thousand miles and then sitting all winter I'll probably have a little bit of seepage on the underside when I pull the car out in the spring, but never enough to make it to the exhaust manifold, and never a drip or that embarrassing tinge of smoke rising up from the exhaust manifold!

I hope this bit of insanity helps.

Cheers,

Tony K.

[GavinT]

Tony fitted new gaskets to my cam covers almost three years ago to the day. Pretty much they have been leak free. I sometimes get a very small bit of seepage in the winter months when the car is sitting in storage. Nothing that warrants any concern. I don't think anything is 100% but the MD sealant has performed well. The rubber gaskets that were on the car originally had gone hard and brittle after being on the car for less than two years.

Edited June 23, 2012 by GavinT

[Tony K]

Glad it's holding up for you, Gavin!

[Sir Paolo]

Tony, thank-you for your lucid and detailed response.

I've never had any success with the fibre gaskets, so I suppose it was easy to blame the equipment, not my minimal ability(?).

However, as my engine is in bits, I should have no problem getting all components squeaky clean, whilst it's on the bench. From what you say, it'll be a different matter when the carriers are removed durign the course of a service.

I'm quite tempted to buy some OE gaskets now.

This whole saga reminds me of the issue I went through with Head Gaskets - do I buy Coppers or go with the new Goetz. Again I heard people having problems with both, but on the strength of this thread, it seems some problems could be attributable to methods of installation(?).

[Mesprit87]

I hope this bit of insanity helps.

No insanity here, just a job well done!

[RedEspritS2]

I've tried 3 sets of the rubber gaskets so far - all have been total failures. Inlet cams are never a problem, it's always that pesky exhaust cam, it's probably easier with the engine out but then how often do you want to take your engine out!

[Chinleyman]

An old string I know but folk may well do same as i have and come across at much later date so here is my experience for what its worth.

I had two Elites in the 80s (both 907 motors), a school friend of mine had a brother who was a bit of a car nut had Lotus, Ferrari and importantly Jensen Healey (this was the key car for the advice he gave me).

He had tried many solutions to the problem of the 907 sucking in the gaskets and the subsequent leaks when stood. The solution he had arrived at with assistance of others for the Jensen Heraley (and this may well be covered above - sorry I didn't read every post in detail) was to combine paper gaskets with the Lotus recommended silicon type sealant, effectively a sandwich of materials. I meticulously cleaned all mating surfaces applied the sealant and gaskets and torqued as per workshop manual. I never had a problem again and whilst I accept the cam covers were never on for longer than a year this method of sealing for cam covers never let me down.

 

[semi42]

There’s a video on YouTube of a guy doing the head on his 907 powered JH. 
As a new install, everything is clean and dry, I think this is the key element in sealing up the cam covers and waiting 24 hours until start up .

no gaskets, just a good splodge of sealant

 

[semi42]

Just done my cam covers as per the above video , waited 24 hours , road test . changed oil and filter on return home. 
no leaks