I've got a waste gate and I wanna use it!

[Advantage]

No, we don't and I would counsel caution for anyone making such a claim.

[fflyingdog]

Lets be honest the CEL is a bit of an arse ache to disconnect,remove binnacle ,Lotus position etc. filaments do just plain burn out any way i digress.We as a forum are fortunate to be in the position of knowing every single aspect of the Esprit and even then it throws us a curved ball,what chance would a dealer have?Its all very well saying they should know ,but as has been said in a earlier response even the best can get laden down in the mire.Its only a machine put together by man therefore can be fixed by man.This forum is descending into an action forcing a reaction scenario.

 

 

  Nick S4s

[Stimpy]

Also, if what you said about price is true then that's even more of a poor show on behalf of the dealer.

They should rightly be hauled over the coals. Some of the stuff they fed back was completely absurd....

Hmmm you got me there  - the price would be a key jigsaw piece - after all I was saying to myself 'why is it that much cheaper than the black one' - I was told 'service history is everything' when I queried this.  I fell for it

[Stimpy]

My biggest concern with threads of this nature is the lack of an opportunity for the dealership to respond. Even if they do read this they would be unlikely or unwilling and definitely unwise to engage in public communications over this matter. As such we are only ever seeing one side of any stories.

There's also the small matter of not being given a chance to rectify any further faults subsequently discovered on this car due to the reluctance to return it to their workshop. Instead the car has been subjected to amateur tinkering at home before finally ending up at a known specialist. Now, before anyone pipes up with how the supplying dealer should have a comprehensive knowledge of every mechanical aspect of each car sold, it's worth remembering that the specialist who is now tending to the car and was the cause of a collective sigh of relief to anyone who has read these threads, still wished to spend 100 hours fixing a minor fault that could be done in an afternoon. It just goes to show even the most experienced still has the odd occasion where new things can be learned.

So with that in mind it's worth cutting the dealership some slack especially as they haven't even seen the car for quite some time.

Add to the mix an almost fairytale way of describing very minor issues I'm afraid you're going to have to excuse me if I view the weekly declarations of sky-falling-down doom with a rather large dollop of cynicism.

 

Dealer communications:

A few emails saying "I'll get back to you"

While they had the car to mend the 'fuel overrun' or whatever they said - they put new gas struts in and sorted the zircon.  They agreed to it at half price (still over £100).  They returned the car while I was on holiday - they parked wonky on the street and posted the keys - and left the car unlocked.  

They never followed up about the work (payment).  It 'disappeared '

They had the care for ages, eating into my shortening warranty 

 

I added the waste gate. If I knew the CEL was on I would have gone to SGT straight away.

[Stimpy]

Do we know definitely that the dealer disconnected the cel

 

That's the tricky part - how can I prove it?  When I received the car first time I was over keen on driving it.  I didn't have a natural tendency to check the tell tail light (on ign).  In fact I didn't even know that it was meant to come on before starting.  And so being 'off' just gave me a false sense of security as it were.  No yellow light=all systems go.  Actually - at the time - I didn't even acknowledge the CEL.

 

Then when they returned it after an age to rectify the petrol pump thing (which it wasn't) - I still neglected to look for something that I wasn't looking out for - if that makes sense.  Paradoxically my local hifi store sorted the starter issue in one day and charged £40.

No, we don't and I would counsel caution for anyone making such a claim.

 

Absolutely!  If I claimed such a thing I would have to prove it plus if I publicised 'CEL lamp removed by dealer' I'd quickly be phoned by their trusty solicitor.  I've tried to be careful in regards to that hot potato.

Lets be honest the CEL is a bit of an arse ache to disconnect,remove binnacle ,Lotus position etc. filaments do just plain burn out any way i digress.We as a forum are fortunate to be in the position of knowing every single aspect of the Esprit and even then it throws us a curved ball,what chance would a dealer have?Its all very well saying they should know ,but as has been said in a earlier response even the best can get laden down in the mire.Its only a machine put together by man therefore can be fixed by man.This forum is descending into an action forcing a reaction scenario.

 

 

  Nick S4s

 

"arse ache"

Actually I was surprised how easy it was.  I had to work 'blind' - i.e. use my fingers to locate things - thats when I felt the socket with no connection and subsequently the plug stuck to the goo.  One of the posters here gave me the idea.  Maybe its my dashboard (i.e. model) but I can get in there and disconnect and reconnect within 3 mins max.  I think other dashes are more restrictive

-------

 

Just a note - regarding this topic.  It HAS been answered.  What we're doing now is a post mortum.  That's not a bad thing because it's an important set of events and it involved a bone fide dealer.

 

It all works perfectly well now (ok there's the bobbins thing, but I've passed on the LEW guide and Taff's discussing with a body shop [the idea] and we will discuss it when he's got all the facts along with the article and a couple of PMs I've posted here)

 

I should total up the end cost really - actually that will be part of my social media route

[Simon350S]

Instead of dragging on about they've done this, they've done that, social media blah blah......

I've got an idea for you.

Write your letter to Lotus, CC in the dealer principle at the dealership, and put it to bed.

If you get a response, great.

If not, try not to spend any more time thinking about what could have been and concentrate on enjoying what you have now. Surely that's the most important thing from here on in?

Car dealers are crooks, some are nicer crooks than others, but the vast majority are theiving, lying, buggers...... They have been insetuously bred for decades to treat the average joe as nothing more than an easy buck and a cash cow.

Some, and I mean a small minority, are seeing the light and emerging from the shadows to present a different face of the car trade, and that's a welcome breath of fresh air, the guys at Silverstone seem to be doing a mighty job from what everyone has stated on here.

I just wish more would try and earn an honest living rather than effectively steal from the likes of you and me, and our friends and family, it sickens me, genuinely sickens me......

Edited November 27, 2014 by Simon350S

[Stimpy]

"Instead of dragging on about they've done this, they've done that, social media blah blah......"

 

I'm just getting to the point where I can do a dossier (not the Tony Blair type!) - thus I've waited for this moment to write the damn thing.  Actually I started it some time ago but now I've got the stuff together and I'll have to put a 'predictive' point about the bobbins (I really wish they were called something else rather than a cute friendly name!).

 

Your points about car dealers are quite 'strong' but unfortunately I'm coming round to your point of view.  I guess I've been lucky in the past.  Stretching fairly simple jobs during the warranty period rang a few of those bells. Clever though - running down the time by keeping hold of it.

 

As a bit of humour - I did laugh ironically at your point :-

 

"Some, and I mean a small minority, are seeing the light"

 

I really wish I had, if you get the pun.    

 

Yes, I do completely love the thing  - it's almost as if I'd got it from a car version of the battesy dog's home - if you get my drift.

But I am properly addicted.  Last Saturday night I found myself jumping on board and having an enthusiastic drive at 5 a.m. - yes, that sounds mad but there is 'something' about winding the windows down and driving down Marlow High Street.

Of course my wife thought I was mad!

[Peteric]

Sorry Simon but to say the vast majority of car dealers are crooks is absolute B******S. What a silly, daft comment to make. Granted as with every trade there are some bad ones but the vast majority are trying to make an honest living.

 

I am NOT a car dealer myself but I do know many as I do work in a part of the motor trade and they are not all Arthur Daleys!

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

[Simon350S]

It's not a sill daft comment or b******s, it's a comment based on a wealth of experience, spanning 21 years of motoring, from the perspective of buying car, selling cars, the servicing and MOTing of cars and repair to accident damaged cars, from large chain main dealers through smaller dealers to independent garages.

It's a comment based on the experiences of dealings I've personally had and that I've been involved in which has been quite vast, and stories and comments shared in conversation both in person and more recently online, following very poor experiences. It still shocks me quite how blatant and serious the lies and stories that are told.

I've not made the comment lightly and in no way was it meant in any kind of twisted humour. It's very unfortunately the reality of how the British public are treated by the motoring trade, but I have acknowledged that some are trying hard it seems, to buck the trend and make an honest living. Also at no point in time have I stated that this applies to EVERY person involved in the motoring trade.

Finding someone you can trust when it comes to buying and maintaining a car is tough, my only advice is 'IF YOU CAN' find someone who is honest and genuine, keep using them!

Edited November 30, 2014 by Simon350S

[Mike6]

As a retired person with a wealth of motoring experience I wouldnt trust a garage near my car, if I could possibly help it and more so with the Esprit. Bodged dangerous repairs are what you can often get through a garage and dare I say it, I dont think you should own a car like an Esprit without being a bit of a mechanic.

Some of the problems you have had with the car seem the sort of thing you should expect with a car like this but not the other problems. The C service obviously wasnt carried out or skimped over - servicing is one area where you can be conned big time. Most people assume if the oil looks clean the service has been carried out.

Its unfortunate you seem to have been conned (a bit) but with the repairs done you should have a lovely car and will soon forget these issues.

[Peteric]

Well if you drive a modern car and have an engine management fault you will have no choice to let a garage near it unless you have a couple of thousand pounds worth of scanner for your model!

 

I agree an Esprit is an enthusiast car and you either need to be able to spanner a bit or learn fast and this is the same with all classic cars.

Regardless of cost (how much warranty would you get with a classic Ferrari dino......none I bet) the Esprit 4 pot is getting on in age (age does matter as well as mileage), in fact the subject of this thread is 15 years old and the majority of 4 pots older.

 

Anyway, we all have differences of opinions and that's what makes life interesting but I do not agree with slating business's or personal individuals on a national forum when there is only one side to a story being seen.

 

There are bad apples in all industries but tarring everyone with same brush is not the way to go.

[Stimpy]

Sorry Simon but to say the vast majority of car dealers are crooks is absolute B******S. What a silly, daft comment to make. Granted as with every trade there are some bad ones but the vast majority are trying to make an honest living.

 

I am NOT a car dealer myself but I do know many as I do work in a part of the motor trade and they are not all Arthur Daleys!

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

Ok - my pendulum swings boths ways (as it were) - I also have sympathies with this POV because I HAVE had brilliant service from a few after the car is sold.  An example could be  - I asked for some extensive work to be done on my 'real' mini.  I asked for an quotation. I did not ask for an estimate.  I was clear about that.  The work went on for about a week,  They *lost* money on my particular job but they have *retained* a loyal customer who is bound t go back there.  Many salesmen are shortsighted.  This was 'mini speed' btw.  I'm just blown away that a little independent ends up losing out yet a prestigious marque like Lotus (the dealer) did all they could to get rid of a car (and subsequent problems).  There's the 3rd way too - the ones that do a really good job after 'realising there's something broken on your car Mr Humphreys- shall we fix it?" and charge you the earth.

 

In context to this thread my aim is to focus on how bad an outlet be and at the same time proudly display the 'Lotus' brand.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Stimpy]

Finding someone you can trust when it comes to buying and maintaining a car is tough, my only advice is 'IF YOU CAN' find someone who is honest and genuine, keep using them!

 

This is key.

Once you find someone you can trust you can then find other trustworthy people throughout that person - e.g. - I trust SGT - they've  done a lot to save me money and they never rush you.  Since 1998/9 I have probably spent 6 hours talking about cars and rugby than car work!  (Me - welsh - Taff - welsh).  Any south africans here?  :-)

 

I found out that when I was having work done the lady in reception was phoning around the country and searching ebay for items I needed to avoid going to Lotus direct.  I 'found this out' - so they weren't showing off.  I like that.

 

Of course I'm now going to trust the to send me to the best body shops / tyre outlets etc.

[Stimpy]

As a retired person with a wealth of motoring experience I wouldnt trust a garage near my car, if I could possibly help it and more so with the Esprit. Bodged dangerous repairs are what you can often get through a garage and dare I say it, I dont think you should own a car like an Esprit without being a bit of a mechanic.

Some of the problems you have had with the car seem the sort of thing you should expect with a car like this but not the other problems. The C service obviously wasnt carried out or skimped over - servicing is one area where you can be conned big time. Most people assume if the oil looks clean the service has been carried out.

Its unfortunate you seem to have been conned (a bit) but with the repairs done you should have a lovely car and will soon forget these issues.

 

The big thing for me was the cam belt change.  I was eager to get that out of the way.  So they said "dont worry we'll do a full C-service" - which of course incudes belts.  So I went with that.  And you can see its a new belt.  Visually 'bad bits' horrified me once it was up the SGT ramp.  And talking about oil - there was some nice golden oil where my car sat in the show room.  Nice and clear golden oil.  'All esprits leak a bit' was the word.  All along the assumption and explanation was tha it was engine oil.  The size of a 50p.  On later examination it was gearbox oil.  Are there any Lotus dealers out there that would mistakingly assume engine oil for gearbox oil?  Makes you think.....

 

By the way  - you are right in saying that 'the other party' aren't here to put their side of the story.  That's important and my mutterings should be seen that way,  I can promise lack of bias however the the fact that its coloured by my interpretation could probably be argued against if the dealer explained things here.  So I get the point.

[Stimpy]

Well if you drive a modern car and have an engine management fault you will have no choice to let a garage near it unless you have a couple of thousand pounds worth of scanner for your model!

 

I agree an Esprit is an enthusiast car and you either need to be able to spanner a bit or learn fast and this is the same with all classic cars.

Regardless of cost (how much warranty would you get with a classic Ferrari dino......none I bet) the Esprit 4 pot is getting on in age (age does matter as well as mileage), in fact the subject of this thread is 15 years old and the majority of 4 pots older.

 

Anyway, we all have differences of opinions and that's what makes life interesting but I do not agree with slating business's or personal individuals on a national forum when there is only one side to a story being seen.

 

There are bad apples in all industries but tarring everyone with same brush is not the way to go.

 

I have learned more in the last year (car mechanics) than in the last 10 years (I have a stag, mini and Elf to look after too).  I felt 'good' about doing an ECU transplant. Yes, it's quite easy in retrospect - but if someone asked "Change your ECU and wip out the memcal into the new ECU and refit" I would stand there looking lie homer (with hair) with a still-look on my face.

 

Slating people - I believe I have not named the salesman or the 2 mechanics throughout the 'story'.  I've been careful with that.  On the other side I have named Taff and SGT - but thats for a whole different positive reason

[Peteric]

Hi Stimpy

 

I do feel for your situation I just did not like where this thread was going........"The whole motor trade are ripping off gits, etc".

I think you probably got a bit of a raw deal and I think this is because , if I am correct, the car was being sold by the dealer on behalf of the customer. Most dealers will not do this anymore because it is their name and neck on the line if anything goes wrong.

 

I think the lesson for all to be learnt from this thread is, when buying an Esprit 4 pot, whatever the price, where ever you buy it, research common problems etc and go through the car with a fine tooth comb. These are temperamental little buggers and unless you know your onions you can really get caught out. Remember these cars are getting on in age now so expect that seals and gaskets will need replacing as they are rubber and paper and have been in there for 15 years at least!

 

Show me a 15 year old car that has had no work, just servicing that does not leak coolant or oil or fluid from somewhere.

Expect to do the chargecooler impellor or convert to an electric pump cos chances are when you get yours it will not be working.

 

The real problem I think is when these cars were new they were out of our price range (most of us anyway) and now they sit in our price range they are OLD, yet we want them to run like brand new and look the like the dogs danglies. That requires hard work where ever you buy it from.

 

Crikey, they are fragile enough from new, let alone now! If you expect to buy a Lotus Esprit four pot and expect years of trouble free motoring with nothing need doing, you are not being realistic.

 

How can you expect to pay £20,000 and end up with a car that may need a couple of grand spending on it.....well that's what they are worth.......reliable or not.......slight faults with them or not......its what people will pay!

 

I have to say that any motor dealer selling a four pot esprit off their forecourt is bonkers in my opinion.....the profit margin they will make is not going to be worth the risk for the next 6 months of potential comeback (even though, age, mileage, price now to price new and wear and tear is taken into account by the sales of goods act).

 

The newer Lotus's up to 6 or 7 years under 60,000 miles.....that's what they want to sell.

 

As regards to can you tell if its engine oil or gearbox oil.......if both had been changed recently (both clean oil) I would be hard pressed to tell and a 15 year old car with a slight oil leak is to be expected I am afraid.

 

I love the Esprit, its been my dream car since I was a boy. I don't care that its fragile in some areas.....I will fix it and care for it but I expected to do that from the start........however I agree that the seller should not get away with this scott free. The problem with the ECU should have been found and addressed but that does not mean the garage disconnected the CEL....that would have been a massive risk for them......I see it more likely that it was disconnected before it came into their possession by an unscrupulous previous owner trying to hide a fault or trying to get it through an MOT (yes if your engine light is on, it is an MOT failure now).

 

I bring up another question......do dealers even still have a tech one unit to plug into the system?....are they available anymore?.....would a new Lotus dealer be able to get hold of one? would Lotus tell them to use freescan?

 

Anyway, its all pretty irrelevant now as your car is fixed. I hope you have great fun in it and no more big issues!

[Simon350S]

Stimpy said earlier in the thread that the CEL light was on when he viewed, test drove and agreed the purchase of the car, with a condition of the sale that the CEL be sorted. When he took possession of the car from the dealer, the CEL had been "fixed" as agreed.

He later said he found the CEL connector disconnected from the lamp holder, in something sticky. Plugged it back in and the light came back on.....

Edited December 1, 2014 by Simon350S

[pete]

 have to say that any motor dealer selling a four pot esprit off their forecourt is bonkers in my opinion.....the profit margin they will make is not going to be worth the risk for the next 6 months of potential comeback (even though, age, mileage, price now to price new and wear and tear is taken into account by the sales of goods act).

 

 

So true