Crossgate cable

[C43]

Hi

I am working on my brothers S2 esprit and the gearchange is pretty horrible. Think I will have to replace all the bushes and put a new crossgate cable in. My question is how easy to do with body on and engine in when the car is on high stands in the garage? If easy is changing front brakes and difficult is refitting dash without breaking it and so that everything still works!

cheers

C43

[C43]

I think from underneath I can get to most of it both sides of the gearbox. Its just how I get to the rods and cables as the go round the front of the engine and along the top of the chassis. For sure taking the centre console off and accessing the stick mechanism is easy.

C43

[molemot]

If the crossgate cable isn't broken, all it will need is adjustment. The bits that wear are the pivots and the joints...the bellcrank that the crossgate cable fits to gets wear on the clevis pin where the cable fits to it...the bronze bush the bellcrank pivot runs through, and also the pin that sticks up into the crossgate shaft on the gearbox wears too. Any slop in any of those parts gives you crossgate problems..usually trouble getting reverse. To get reverse, the crossgate cable has to push the bellcrank; cables don't like pushing, much...any slop means that the crossgate shaft doesn't move far enough to get reverse. I replace the clevis pin with one I turned down from a socket headed setscrew, and drilled for an R-pin. Drilled out the hole in the bellcrank to suit the new pin and bushed it, too. Fitted a new bush to the bellcrank pivot and built up the pin which moves the crosgate shaft with a bit of weld and filed it to a proper fit. This got rid of all the slop at the gearbox end. The nylon bushes at the rod linkage joints are available...these and the bronze bush came from S&J...and the transfer link attached to the engine mount benefits from work too. The rod linkage engages the gears, and the cable shifts it across the gate. Adjusting the cable is an iterative process, you have to set it so that both 1st/2nd and reverse select easily. You adjust the cable at the point where it goes through the bracket that holds it on the gearbox...towards the rear of the car to go towards the reverse gear and towards the front for 1st/2nd. Takes a bit of fiddling...but changing the cable itself is probably not neccessary....try getting rid of all the lost motion and adjustment first.

One final thing...there is a gate on the linkage, at the gearlever end...to get reverse, you must lift the lever over the gate.

[C43]

Cheers. makes sense from what I have read so far. Car has done 80k at least and the gear change is bad even by Esprit standards. I have access to a full machine shop so can re bush where necessary. I am a little nervous about how easy or not the in gear rod linkage running down the lhs and into the back of the chassis will be to remove from underneath as I am sure all the rubber bushes on this will be badly worn. The picture below shows the rocker I have to remove, easy to do with no engine in place....not so easy with an engine fitted on the garage floor I think!

 

C43

[Choppa]

Replacement rubber bushes and the plastic inserts that comes with them are only about £3 a set from SJs, I've just changed the two shown in the photo and  one at the gearbox end on mine, took no time at all. 

[Andyww]

I reworked my entire gearchange and its perfect now.

Fitted a rose joint on the end of the crossgate linkage on the bell crank.

Reworked the bellcrank pivot and the peg which John mentioned above.

Replaced all the rubber bushes with IGUS teflon bushes, except the one at the base of the gear lever which I left as rubber in case of vibration transmission.

Reworked the rocker lever by means of fitting a housed ball bearing to it, the inner race can be bolted solidly to the support.

On the original design its almost as if they wanted it to be vague, with all those bungy rubber bushes and the design of the rocker pivot which makes it twist before it starts to transfer any movement.

The entire linkage is not difficult to remove even with engine in. 

 

[C43]

thanks for the feedback guys. I saw what you had put on your previous threads and all great stuff. I work for a race team so have good access to bearings and rose joints so should not be a problem to fit new parts. I was worried it might be difficult to get to on the car (a Lotus is much more difficult to work on than most race cars!) but seems like pretty easy once the car is in the air. Think I will put in on ramps then the rear is as high as I can get it so hopefully can access all the bearings and levers form underneath. Think most are pretty easy, it was just the one in the middle mounted to the back of the chassis that worried me.

cheers

C43

[C43]

Andy

just saw your comment about easy to do with the engine in place, good to hear.

thanks

C43

[hepkat63]

On 4/2/2016 at 19:41, Andyww said:

I reworked my entire gearchange and its perfect now.

Fitted a rose joint on the end of the crossgate linkage on the bell crank.

Reworked the bellcrank pivot and the peg which John mentioned above.

Replaced all the rubber bushes with IGUS teflon bushes, except the one at the base of the gear lever which I left as rubber in case of vibration transmission.

Reworked the rocker lever by means of fitting a housed ball bearing to it, the inner race can be bolted solidly to the support.

On the original design its almost as if they wanted it to be vague, with all those bungy rubber bushes and the design of the rocker pivot which makes it twist before it starts to transfer any movement.

The entire linkage is not difficult to remove even with engine in. 

 

Hey Andy,

I have a 1982 Turbo Esprit and the gear change sucks big time.  I can't even get it into first now !  By that I mean that the shifter goes into first ok, but when you drop the clutch to take off, it shudders and stalls - because it is actually in third gear !  No matter how many times I go through the gears, it will not go into first.  

Clearly, there are some adjustments to be made or parts to be replaced.  I would like to do what you have done - and fix the stupid thing once and for all - as it is totally ruining my experience of this car - not being able to drive it.  I have checked the manual and I can't find a set of correct adjustments for the crossgate lever or actuating rod. 

I jacked up the rear end, and I put my remote camera under there and focused on the linkage.  I can see when I go through the gears, that the rod is doing what it is supposed to do, so I am a tad confused.  I have spend all afternoon adjusting that linkage, but doesn't make any difference.  It is almost as if it is not returning 'home' correctly.

Any ideas what to try next - or is there a source to obtain the parts you did ?

[Andyww]

Going into the wrong gear would be the crossgate cable adjustment is off, and/or the mechanism has too much play.

So this would likely be the bellcrank shown in the above picture. There is a pin where the shaft meets the bellcrank and this wears, as does the pivot and the peg which activates the gearbox lever.

Its quite easy to check all of this simply by looking at it, and pushing the shaft front/back and checking for play. Removing the boot floor you can see everything clearly from above.

What you can do is send the bellcrank to SJ Sportscars and they will refurbish it and supply a new pivot bush and the pivot bolt. They supply a replacement rear shaft with a rose joint but that didnt fit mine so I fitted the rose joint to the existing shaft by drilling and tapping a hole in the end of it.

When doing the adjustment the basic thing to remember is, the gear positions across the gate are determined by the gearbox (obviously) but the point at which the lever needs to be lifted up to get it into reverse is defined at the gearlever end. The lever left/right movement should spring back to the 3-4 gear position when the lever is released. If it doesnt that means there is some seizing in the cable or mechanism because this spring detent is done in the box. The book says the lever should be vertical or slightly leaning to the right at the 3-4 detent position. Thats a good starting point. The end result is the lever should need to be lifted in order to get into reverse.

The front-rear movement of the linkage is a whole other set of issues but you could focus on the crossgate first.

[hepkat63]

2 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Going into the wrong gear would be the crossgate cable adjustment is off, and/or the mechanism has too much play.

So this would likely be the bellcrank shown in the above picture. There is a pin where the shaft meets the bellcrank and this wears, as does the pivot and the peg which activates the gearbox lever.

Its quite easy to check all of this simply by looking at it, and pushing the shaft front/back and checking for play. Removing the boot floor you can see everything clearly from above.

What you can do is send the bellcrank to SJ Sportscars and they will refurbish it and supply a new pivot bush and the pivot bolt. They supply a replacement rear shaft with a rose joint but that didnt fit mine so I fitted the rose joint to the existing shaft by drilling and tapping a hole in the end of it.

When doing the adjustment the basic thing to remember is, the gear positions across the gate are determined by the gearbox (obviously) but the point at which the lever needs to be lifted up to get it into reverse is defined at the gearlever end. The lever left/right movement should spring back to the 3-4 gear position when the lever is released. If it doesnt that means there is some seizing in the cable or mechanism because this spring detent is done in the box. The book says the lever should be vertical or slightly leaning to the right at the 3-4 detent position. Thats a good starting point. The end result is the lever should need to be lifted in order to get into reverse.

The front-rear movement of the linkage is a whole other set of issues but you could focus on the crossgate first.

Thanks Andy - Being in Australia, I'm not too keen to send stuff over to the UK and then back again, mainly because I don't really want to wait a month to drive the car !  I've only had the car for less than a week, and this weekend was the first time I could really have a look at things.  I"ll have another go tomorrow night.  I have emailed SJ sportscars anyways to see what they can offer.  I see they do a complete crossgate cable that is supposed to be better than the stock one.  I am figuring if I get that, along with all new bushes where I can - at least I'll have a good point to start with.   I live in a rural area, so starting off in 2nd gear is no big deal for a short while until I get it going properly !

[markt]

Have you tried Lotus Marques in Vic?

Seem to recall a member on here called Freemason got his linkages refurbed by them - there's a thread of his in the Esprit Restoration section. Worth a try as it's more local for you.

[C43]

^{Hi Andy}

^{as  you said very easy to take off. Now to get new bushes and put back together. However the bushes I took off were very worn so new should make a big difference. Going to fit the IGUS Teflon bushes.}

^cheers

^C43

 

[molemot]

If you remove the boot floor, you can see the linkage easily...and you can also take the top off the gearbox. This enables you to check that the selectors are all in the right places on their shafts and are correctly wire locked. Some of them have no mechanically defined fitting position, but fit using gauges which measure where they go on the shafts. A good inspect and think and it is possible to see any problems...if you can't get 1st and 2nd, then the crossgate cable isn't pulling the bellcrank far enough...if you can't get reverse, then it isn't pushing it far enough. It's an iterative process...like many Lotus adjustments!!

[Mesprit87]

Removing the floor really helps but there is a lot of fiddling with the wiring (on my model year at least) before it comes out...

[hepkat63]

thanks Guys - yes, I'll remove the floor parts through the week and see what I can find - really appreciate the help !

[Andyww]

4 hours ago, Mesprit87 said:

Removing the floor really helps but there is a lot of fiddling with the wiring (on my model year at least) before it comes out...

I usually leave the ignition box connected up and unbolt it from the floor piece.

[Mesprit87]

That's what I mean, on my car it's a one piece affair...not separable. I don't understand why they changed it on newer cars.

[C43]

Whilst I am doing the linkage my joke mechanism at the stick end has loads of play in it, does anyone have any experience on how to rebuild this?

thanks

Christian

[hepkat63]

thanks guys for all the help. I have now got it working ! 

So, the way I fixed it was to firstly disconnect the crossgate extension rod at the back where it joins the bellcrank lever.  I then got in the car and put the car in 1st gear.  I then got back under the car and manually moved the gear lever selector rod into neutral - then using my hand, pressed the bellcrank lever right into the gearbox as far as it went and whilst holding that position, slid the gear selector back into first.

Once I had that position, (proving 1st gear), i checked where the crossgate extension rod was sitting.  I adjusted the crossgate cable at the adjustment point below the clutch slave cylinder so I that when at the other end of the crossgate extension rod, I could screw it fully out and fully in either side of the current position of the bellcrank lever hole where the crossgate rod slots into (with pin).  

This way, I could now leave the adjustment below the slave cylinder alone and work on screwing the crossgate extension rod in and out - watching from below until the holes lined up.

The other trap is that you can manually pull the crossgate extension rod with your hand and push it back in again.  There is about an inch and a half movement each time.   So, armed with that information, i realised that you are pushing the crossgate extension rod to the rear of the car for reverse, and pulling it to the front for first.

I started by pulling the cable back all the way and then i twisted the extension rod about half way out until it lined up with the hole in the bellcrank.  I put the pin though the hole and then got back into the car and went through all the gears a few times and then put it back into 1st gear.  I got back under the car and made sure that 1st was indeed selected -which is was.  I then got back into the car and put it in reverse gear.   Got back under the car to check if it was in reverse - but it was not, it was actually in fourth gear.  I could tell this because the bellcrank lever had only pulled the rod out of the gearbox about 1/2 inch (my earlier inspection with everything disconnected had showed the rod in fully for 1st/2nd, 1/2 inch out for 3rd/4th and 3/4 inch out for O/D and reverse).

I then had to disconnect the crossgate extension rod (simply pulled the pin out) and manually put the bellcrank lever into the reverse position (just used a block of wood and screwdriver to move it out from the gearbox) - once it was in reverse, I got in the car and put the shifter into reverse.  I then got back under the car and observed the crossgate extension rod and saw it was out of position over the hole by about 1/4 inch.  So, I screwed it out a few more turns until again it lined up - put the pin in and again got back into the car and went though the gears a few times.

I put the car in first gear -then got under car to check it was indeed in 1st - it was.  Got back in the car, put it in reverse - got under car to check and yes, in reverse.   I then put the split pin into the pin and got in the car to take it for a drive - and yes, success !

So, all in all - a big learning curve.  I am still not 100% happy with the gear change, but will replace bushes and the like to get it a little smoother.

I hope this helps the next newbie with this issue to sort it out