Lotus Exige Cup 380

[The Pits]

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[NedaSay]

On 4/28/2017 at 02:13, French Frie said:

Toyota has new gearboxes (both manual and Auto) to provide... they're supposed to cope with more torque and offer more gears for the auto (8).

Toyota has a new 8 speed automatic (code name AWF8G45 at Aisin) which is compatible with the engine and the car but it is not yet officially rated. They mentioned an 18% improvement all around over the 6 speed so that would be good for nearly 500nm of torque, I am thinking 480nm for security/reliability reason. Problem being that Toyota and Aisin do not go for a top end power curve (above 7000 rpm). The 8 speed would still answer to some problem as it would be a de facto short ratio gearbox ( from 2nd to 5th gear.

I haven't heard of a new 6 speed manual, they have upgrade the BG6 when BMW decided to use it on the mini and the 2 series but that's it, that gearbox is good for 430 nm of torque which means that Lotus is purposefully leaving 10 nm out. And that is also because the gearbox is not designed to go to the top end, that gearbox was originally designed to be mated with diesel engine and provide the torque below 5000 rpm not beyond 7000 rpm.  Lotus has tweaked it a lot to fit their need 

Other problem unless Lotus can fund the upgrade on its own - and/or commits to staying a Toyota customer for the foreseeable future - regardless of who is their new owner - this is not going to happen until the new owner comes in and agrees an expenditure budget for the company. The good thing being both Volvo (Geely) and Peugeot (PSA) do use Aisin (Toyota) gearbox in their cars so the relationship will continue to exist in some way.

As for the Cup 380 I don't think it needs the automatic gearbox, it's a track toy and the owners will probably want to play with the  "joystick" a lot if you want the automatic the Sport 380 is there and is not that much slower.

[French Frie]

yep, Nico ... my remark was based on the infos you already posted here regarding the Auto gearbox  ... and I agree regarding the Cup ! an X-Trac gearbox would be better suited (as on previous Cup R Exiges),  but needs frequent servicing/rebuilt !

after 20 months spent with my IPS, I'm still happy and do not regret my choice for a second, but I would happily change for a future Exige with 400+ HP and a 8 speed auto in two or three years !

 

[The Pits]

[Jokke Vlo]

Best buy at the moment: 350 Exige and go to komotec to make the car you want, recent developments at Lotus are just a rip of to say it a little black and white style

Best standard car build: 360 Exige cup. 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Jokke Vlo

[Swiss380Cup]

On 28/04/2017 at 23:45, The Pits said:

?

Hello there.... do you know if the 380 Cup gets the baffled wet sump as standard ?????? Cheers..... Antoine

PS: regarding my 360 Cup wiring harness, now Lotus sent to the dealer a kit to repair the connectors to the ECU......it's a little "old school"...repairing a harness.... apparently they send out about 60 a year of these.... tell them I know the best "connectors" manufacturers in Switzerland...... like Fischer Connectors e.g...... they do out for the aviation and military industry...there're plenty of top class connectors manufacturers around here :):):) 

[The Pits]

There is no mention of a baffled sump with the 380 Cup. I think it's safe to assume that it would have been mentioned in the press release if there was one, but who knows the spec can change before the first cars are made.

@Jokke Vlo if we want to talk black and white the 360 Cup changes are just cosmetic (although very nice!). '10bhp' comes from air filter element and sports exhaust. There were grooved brakes on some, but not all. Uprated gear linkage on the last few but again, not all.

[Seriouslylotus]

Mine is no25 and has the new gear linkage etc, so one can assume that at least 50% have the new linkage. It also has fully floating front brake bells and grooved discs (not just two piece fixed discs), wasn't aware that they made them with drilled discs, you learn something every day.....

The 360 was also a 'limited' run of 50 cars which I have been told was actually 49, but I have never tried to confirm the numbers

 

On 5/11/2017 at 17:52, Jokke Vlo said:

Best buy at the moment: 350 Exige and go to komotec to make the car you want, recent developments at Lotus are just a rip of to say it a little black and white style

Best standard car build: 360 Exige cup. 

 

 

I agree about the 360 (but I would!!!!) It just needs a TVS1900 to make it complete.

This will be added when its having its annual service (95% made my mind up) along with a gearbox oil cooler that it desperately needs!

[The Pits]

B&C sold the last couple. Unless they were built in an entirely random order they stopped at 28. I don't believe they ever made 50 but if someone has 360 Cup number 49, please feel free to correct this! This is good news for anyone with a Cup 360 by the way, your cars are even rarer than you thought.

Until then I think we can challenge that assumption. I don't think slightly different brake rotors and a louvred engine cover is enough to warrant the title: "best standard car build".

[Jokke Vlo]

You are right, the orginal V6 cups is perhaps even better. I took it on one because of the gearbox linkage, but it is true if it doesn't have the oil cooler the upgrade value is not really that good. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Jokke Vlo

[The Pits]

I agree that the original is best naturally but I think we'll let Dave and the other 360 Cup owners have this one. Officially the best, if only just

380 Cup does have the gearbox oil cooler but not the baffled sump as far as we know. I'll have to wait until seeing it in real life before making final judgement but the chances are good that it's going to be the best looking of the V6 Cups.

It looks expensive now, just as the original V6 Cup did at £62k. But if Lotus ever do a chargecooled Exige it will most likely be over £100k, so another £20k more. For those that love the look but don't care that much for the chargecooler (or the extra weight) this could be the Cup to go for...

 

[M4rk]

Mine is car 29 by the way, so could possibly be the last one?  Do the CupR models count in the build numbers that are issued or do they have a separate build number?

In fairness I think the V6 Cup was a real sweet spot of the range, especially when you look at current pricing.  Some tasty extras, good standard kit, especially the cut off and extinguisher - they really add to the race car look and feel.  So yes, I think the V6 Cup and 360 Cup offer real value and thankfully for all of us lucky owners our residuals improved significantly on the launch the 380 Cup!

I was thinking about what I would do if I was coming to the market now and the 360 Cup I bought had been sold already.  I'd look at the 350 but would quickly move to the 380 and 380 Cup, given how rare the 380 Cup is likely to be and how amazing it looks I know I would be strongly drawn to that.  I had been looking for used Cups and they are rare so I'm not sure I would have waited for one to come up.  I'm not personally inclined to buy a 350 and then upgrade it, Komotec, or whatever as that's not me and I would not want to jeopardise warranty on a new 350. 

Whether I could afford it at this moment in time is another thing, so I may have had to wait but I'm pretty sure I would have found a way to buy a 380 Cup and I would not have been concerned with the fact it was a lot more than recent Cup models.  I think I would stare at those wheel arch louvers are nice carbon bits all day long!  Considering a change to this car from your current Cup is of course very different as you always consider what you are gaining for the extra and for most of us that's hard to quantify and just reinforces how great a car we already own.  Win-win.  I'm really looking forward to seeing a new 380 Cup in the flesh.

Right, its a lovely evening so time to take the Cup out for a spin 

 

[Swiss380Cup]

On 24/04/2017 at 20:40, NW76 said:

Fastest I have seen (all road legal):

- 2:37 GT3 RS (top pro driver, setup profesionally done)

- 2:46 GT4 (setup profesionally done)

 

The fastest I have ever done in my EX460 was 2:51 ... Winny did a 2:41 recently with his EX460 ... If I can break into the 2:40s this year I am very happy ?...

By the way - I fully agree with @Swiss360Cup. The besr investment is always the one in the driver (coaching!!!)...

On such a high speed track with high speed curves, "decent" sport cars are all in a very small time bracket..... 997 GT3s and RS were in between 2:43-2:44.... 2:46 for the Cayman GT4, 2:37 for the GT3 RS, etc., etc. etc. But as I wrote before 5s in Spa is a HUGE achievement...... V6 Cup R record of 2:37... I'm not sure there would be a very big difference between road 350-380-360 Cup - 380 Cup and even KT EX something..... here the aerodynamics and chassis setting are the most important in my opinion... and unless you have 200 more HP or 200kgs less weight, there won't be a huge difference.....

4 hours ago, M4rk said:

Mine is car 29 by the way, so could possibly be the last one?  Do the CupR models count in the build numbers that are issued or do they have a separate build number?

In fairness I think the V6 Cup was a real sweet spot of the range, especially when you look at current pricing.  Some tasty extras, good standard kit, especially the cut off and extinguisher - they really add to the race car look and feel.  So yes, I think the V6 Cup and 360 Cup offer real value and thankfully for all of us lucky owners our residuals improved significantly on the launch the 380 Cup!

I was thinking about what I would do if I was coming to the market now and the 360 Cup I bought had been sold already.  I'd look at the 350 but would quickly move to the 380 and 380 Cup, given how rare the 380 Cup is likely to be and how amazing it looks I know I would be strongly drawn to that.  I had been looking for used Cups and they are rare so I'm not sure I would have waited for one to come up.  I'm not personally inclined to buy a 350 and then upgrade it, Komotec, or whatever as that's not me and I would not want to jeopardise warranty on a new 350. 

Whether I could afford it at this moment in time is another thing, so I may have had to wait but I'm pretty sure I would have found a way to buy a 380 Cup and I would not have been concerned with the fact it was a lot more than recent Cup models.  I think I would stare at those wheel arch louvers are nice carbon bits all day long!  Considering a change to this car from your current Cup is of course very different as you always consider what you are gaining for the extra and for most of us that's hard to quantify and just reinforces how great a car we already own.  Win-win.  I'm really looking forward to seeing a new 380 Cup in the flesh.

Right, its a lovely evening so time to take the Cup out for a spin 

 

I have ordered the new 380 Cup in black/red, to replace my 360 Cup black/red.... they'll start building it on Monday, and I'm visiting Hethel next Thursday........ 

[The Pits]

[M4rk]

Awesome!  Congratulations, we look forward to pictures!  Enjoy the factory visit.

[Swiss380Cup]

Yeaaaaaah.... I must be crazy...... you'll have to be patient...it's about 4-6 weeks to complete the order..... but I might see it on the production line which is already great... I could sleep there beside it, ......., to make sure they build it by the books.......

 

[The Pits]

Forum name change needed! 4-6 weeks will fly by. Go and set some times in the 360 as benchmarks for the 380! 

[Jokke Vlo]

16 hours ago, The Pits said:

I agree that the original is best naturally but I think we'll let Dave and the other 360 Cup owners have this one. Officially the best, if only just

380 Cup does have the gearbox oil cooler but not the baffled sump as far as we know. I'll have to wait until seeing it in real life before making final judgement but the chances are good that it's going to be the best looking of the V6 Cups.

It looks expensive now, just as the original V6 Cup did at £62k. But if Lotus ever do a chargecooled Exige it will most likely be over £100k, so another £20k more. For those that love the look but don't care that much for the chargecooler (or the extra weight) this could be the Cup to go for...

 

I do not agree you forgot the (sorry I do this again  ) the power cut at 6800. You can not believe how frustrating this is on track use ! Regarding engine I am convinced a 380 cup has really not much more HP as a standard cup with a power cut at 7100 where you can use the FULL 345hp. On the 380 how much do you really use? You are always at 6400-6600 how much HP do you have there. My guess: it is not much more as a standard one AND less nice to drive. 

Driving with a track car where you have to shift at 6500 rpm feels as you are driving a gas oil engine, I can tell you. 

Sorry new doesn't mean better. Marketing <> practice. 

So for me the 345hp - 360hp engines are much nicier to drive and there performance is not much (imo even equal) as on the 380. I am addicted to drive cars and I can tell you this is the biggest disillusion,  on a car (track use),  I ever had. 

I miss my Exige V6, truly. 

I had also a nice "supercar killer" experience on the "autobahn", against an Audi RS6. The Audi blew me away like nothing. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jokke Vlo

[Stubox]

14 minutes ago, Jokke Vlo said:

I had also a nice "supercar killer" experience on the "autobahn", against an Audi RS6. The Audi blew me away like nothing. 

Had to smile at this. My RS6 in every possible accelerative timing is faster than my CupV6. Then we either arrive at a corner or have to brake hard....I love my RS6 but a sports cars it is not

[The Pits]

I only claimed that: "the chances are good that it's going to be the best looking of the V6 Cups"!

 

[NW76]

The EX460 can keep up from 100-200 kmh with an RS6 after that ... 

But for the Autobahn I have my ACS4 - that can kill even an RS6 but is still not a Sportscar like my Exige is ...

[C8RKH]

These days if a car has a humongous power output people think it is a sports car. Top trumps motoring at its best.

[Seriouslylotus]

19 hours ago, The Pits said:

B&C sold the last couple. Unless they were built in an entirely random order they stopped at 28. I don't believe they ever made 50 but if someone has 360 Cup number 49, please feel free to correct this! This is good news for anyone with a Cup 360 by the way, your cars are even rarer than you thought.

Until then I think we can challenge that assumption. I don't think slightly different brake rotors and a louvred engine cover is enough to warrant the title: "best standard car build".

I am reliably informed that car no 49 was a white one sold via Hoffmans.

The 50th car was to such a different spec (Cup R wings etc etc with orange paint and special interior) I don't think it got the 50th of 50 plaque

They also sold car 12 and car 25

Many of the cars between 26-48 where sold in Germany, a batch was sold by the dealer close to the ring (6 cars or something and we think between 40-46)

The 360 appeared to sell slowly at first, but sales pace really seemed to pick up with the introduction of the 350 platform

Edited May 12, 2017 by Seriouslylotus

[550superfast]

46 minutes ago, Jokke Vlo said:

I do not agree you forgot the (sorry I do this again  ) the power cut at 6800. You can not believe how frustrating this is on track use ! Regarding engine I am convinced a 380 cup has really not much more HP as a standard cup with a power cut at 7100 where you can use the FULL 345hp. On the 380 how much do you really use? You are always at 6400-6600 how much HP do you have there. My guess: it is not much more as a standard one AND less nice to drive. 

Driving with a track car where you have to shift at 6500 rpm feels as you are driving a gas oil engine, I can tell you. 

Sorry new doesn't mean better. Marketing <> practice. 

So for me the 345hp - 360hp engines are much nicier to drive and there performance is not much (imo even equal) as on the 380. I am addicted to drive cars and I can tell you this is the biggest disillusion,  on a car (track use),  I ever had. 

I miss my Exige V6, truly. 

I had also a nice "supercar killer" experience on the "autobahn", against an Audi RS6. The Audi blew me away like nothing. 

I hear you, so why not put the 380 on a rolling road so you can review the facts.

Then consider the SSC TVS 1900 supercharger upgrade or Komotec remap - either of these will liven things up for you and you might stick with an RS6 in a straight line too.

[The Pits]

I think it's the Essex numbering system all over again! Has anyone done the Andy Grahamn certificate of provenance for a 360? That should clear things up.

Going back to this cut-out thing, hopefully for the last time, driving the V6 Cup on track last week the power definitely tails off after 6500rpm. It is normally just as fast to use one gear higher everywhere and use the torque. In fact, I tried this at Brands Hatch and was running 2secs faster until the lap was ruined by a Mondeo using 4th gear where I normally use 3rd. Yes the over-rev is useful but sometimes you have to adapt your driving style to suit the car.

The 380 is pulling harder at 6500 than the older car. No doubt about it. I drove both cars on the same day and the 380 I drove pulled hard from 5000rpm all the way to 6800rpm. I would love it to rev higher, even at 7,000rpm I would wish for 7500rpm, even then 8,000rpm and so on. I ride motorcycles so 9,000rpm is not a big deal, those are cruiser bike revs, my bike revs past 11,000rpm and most sports bikes past 14,000rpm these days! 

I think @Jokke Vlo is going too far to say it's all marketing and made up. Lotus would not be allowed to lie about bhp nor be able to get away with it. You are comparing a factory 375bhp to a Komotec 430 also. I don't think it was realistic to expect the 375bhp car to be faster in a straight line.

A simple remap will give you 7000rpm, why not try that?