I picked a TVS1900

[JG220]

6 hours ago, Poverty said:

Have to say reading through this all as im doing my research is rather primative.

still no real dyno numbers from the 1900 charger (which doesnt really mean much anyway) and more importantly no acceleration data.

all respectful tuners these days through a gps data logger in their cars to show before and after numbers.

also the ecu changes, send the ecu off and get it sent back. Again very primative. Makes you wonder how much power is being left on the table, how safe  the tune is and the lack of personalisation. 

Custom tuning would always be better. Those who trail brake can have the limitations mapped out so the ecu doesnt throw a hissy fit for example.

Also the 1900 vs KT460 argument about durability. Apples and oranges. If prolonging the life of the engine and sustained performance was really high on the agenda you would do the bigger charger, and the charge cooling. Best of both worlds, why optimise one and not the other. Then theres people worrying about their clutches and gearboxes doing so, and this is where a custom map comes in.

cap the torque to clutch protecting levels at lower rpms and just open up the boost as you go up the rev range. Less strain on the clutch and gearbox.

also, people still running cats on primarily track cars, most people in the VAG/911TT/BMW throw their cats in the bin.

makes one wonder how much more could be extracted from the exige platform if one of the more intricate tuners picked this platform up and did some proper R&D. 

Nail. Head. 

Couldn't agree with you more. 

[trcm]

I'm genuinely amazed the various firms offering the TVS1900 in all of its guises don't release more performance and functional test data given theyre expecting to tempt customers to part with many thousands of pounds.

[k20Rob]

Simply Sports cars have finally posted some figures, 400 for the non charge cooled at the crank.

[Randy]

On 29/12/2018 at 10:44, Poverty said:

Have to say reading through this all as im doing my research is rather primative.

still no real dyno numbers from the 1900 charger (which doesnt really mean much anyway) and more importantly no acceleration data.

all respectful tuners these days through a gps data logger in their cars to show before and after numbers.

also the ecu changes, send the ecu off and get it sent back. Again very primative. Makes you wonder how much power is being left on the table, how safe  the tune is and the lack of personalisation. 

Custom tuning would always be better. Those who trail brake can have the limitations mapped out so the ecu doesnt throw a hissy fit for example.

Also the 1900 vs KT460 argument about durability. Apples and oranges. If prolonging the life of the engine and sustained performance was really high on the agenda you would do the bigger charger, and the charge cooling. Best of both worlds, why optimise one and not the other. Then theres people worrying about their clutches and gearboxes doing so, and this is where a custom map comes in.

cap the torque to clutch protecting levels at lower rpms and just open up the boost as you go up the rev range. Less strain on the clutch and gearbox.

also, people still running cats on primarily track cars, most people in the VAG/911TT/BMW throw their cats in the bin.

makes one wonder how much more could be extracted from the exige platform if one of the more intricate tuners picked this platform up and did some proper R&D. 

Whilst I agree with much of this there are some pretty big pitfalls when it comes to quoting numbers.  

All this tuning will be done with the engine in the car so either on a rolling road or hub dyno with all those hard to determine losses and correction factors in the mix.  Additionally this V6 engine is knock limited so if the cooling in the dyno cell isn't up to snuff (and most aren't for a 400bhp+ car) the ECU could pull 30-40bhp giving a wildly deflated number.  On top of this there will be  natural variance from car to car... I tested two side by side and there was a 5bhp difference.  

So when I get asked what the TVS1900 kit makes I say as it is; it will do about 350bhp @ the hubs an TDI south hub dyno in Thurrock.  We don't know the exact losses but that hub figure would equate to about the 400bhp mark.  Those figures are very repeatable run after run and i know the dyno itself is repeatable from the many years I've used it and the many different cars which have been tested by it trackside.  

Clutches and gearboxes, from what I've seen, aren't such a stumbling block as people make them out to be.  For track work its wise to fit a gearbox cooler and that's true whether the engine is upgraded on not.

We don't send the ECU away, we just re-flash it.  The nice thing with this approach is that you retain the stock drivability.  You're right, there is some low hanging fruit to be had in terms of tuning but the beauty of the TVS1900 is its simplicity, and its robust.  Charge cooled kits are on the way but its a much more involved install so more £££... you pays your money...

[tim_marra]

The torque figure looks low.  Isn't the standard set up 295 ft.lb?

[k20Rob]

I just spotted that my phone was chopping some of the table off:

[vd9]

@k20Rob, interesting thing is that they do with lower excess pressure on the charge cooled setup. Which should mean that the extra power is obtained through much more aggressive timing and leaner AFR, possible due to lower temperatures. This should also positively impact fuel consumption (obviously still higher than stock, but not higher than non charge-cooled more powerful than stock setups), which would be a very welcome side effect for those going to the trackdays and having to refuel after every other session.

Edited January 2, 2019 by vd9

[Randy]

18 hours ago, tim_marra said:

The torque figure looks low.  Isn't the standard set up 295 ft.lb?

Hub vs flywheel figures

[tim_marra]

Ah, thanks. Showing the hub torque after the crank bhp caused the confusion.

[Mattmahope]

Hi all, and Happy Christmas! I have already posted on the Evora section but just reposting here to widen the group. Please feel free to merger posts or similar if required.

Anyway, I am very close to pulling the trigger on the TVS1900 for my Exige. I am hoping that you guys can alleviate one last small concern I have...

The TVS1900 is obviously a lot bigger than the standard 1320 unit, and even quite a bit larger than the 410/430 supercharger. From an entirely uneducated random survey of other cars, it seems like 1900cc on a 3.5l engine is perhaps a little “oversized”. As we all know, the bigger the charger, the greater the parasitic loss. My question is whether you notice this at all? Does the engine still want to rev freely and chase the red line, or is it more of “lazy” torque monster?

I appreciate that it is all relative of course - the V6 is no 4 pot screamer to begin with. But I guess I want to understand how the kit will change the characteristics of the engine more than just knowing what headline figures I can expect.

Thanks in advance!

[Kristof Thys]

I have no first hand experience with the TVS1900; but it spins slower than the TVS1320 unit (bigger pulley SC side), so doesn't that compensate on the parasitic loss? 

 

But would like to hear first hand experiences too.  @fergus  for instance?

Edited December 23, 2019 by Kristof Thys
typo

[Mattmahope]

1 hour ago, Kristof Thys said:

I have no first hand experience with the TVS1900; but it spins slower than the TVS1320 unit (bigger pulley SC side), so doesn't that compensate on the parasitic loss? 

 

But would like to hear first hand experiences too.  @fergus  for instance?

Yes, I did wonder about the pulley size. Obviously the bigger the pulley fitted, the lower the gearing effect will be and hence the less parasitic loss.

What pulley sizes are people running with the TVS1900?

[alias23]

@Mattmahope Matt my friend you're over thinking and getting worse than me! Just go see Daniel at KT

[Mattmahope]

22 minutes ago, alias23 said:

@Mattmahope Matt my friend you're over thinking and getting worse than me! Just go see Daniel at KT

You are a very bad influence...

[tim_marra]

No idea on pulley size here, but my goodness what a great upgrade 

[steveoexige]

I cant say what my 380 was like before as I bought it already with the TVS fitted, but it definitely spins up quickly and doesn't feel at all bogged down or lazy.

With your Masterblack ECU I dare say you'll see a significant power increase over the SSC oem ecu reflash.