The Pits

Welcome and congrats. Another big Military Grey fan here. 👍

I really liked the white version of the 430 T25 too but would probably have chosen the green after some agonising. Yes Freddie Mercury thing was a bit out there but just a one-off for charity, like the Naomi Campbell Haiti edition, forgivable on those grounds.

JPS doesn’t top the Essex for me and my dream S2 is Championship Gold but car world would definitely be poorer without the JPS. Iconic Esprit. Evora SR was awesome. Elise CR was cool (super rare too) most recent Elise Sprint was the pick of the non-Cup Elises for me. So when did people start getting annoyed with special editions? Can anyone think of an annoying one? Really struggling but I might have rolled my eyes at the Gieves and Hawkes trimmed Exige Espionage. Then you look at it and all is forgiven.

I’m inclined to think that the 135R is a distinct model in its own right. It seems that when a special edition gets more power it out grows the tag and the moaners give it a pass. All a bit unreasonable but aren’t they just!

Every Lotus worthy of the badge is a Chapman Edition but it's a great idea actually. CUP acronym should be officially adopted instantly. 👍👍👍 Have changed the like icon accordingly! Essex Esprit must be the king of all special editions. Nothing's going to top that. Definitely not helping me understand why some get so irritated by special editions. Huge fan of all the cars mentioned so far. This still looks 'just so', would love one. Supercharged 2ZZGE motor too.

Supposed to be special editions in the tradition of paint jobs and other tarting up items as opposed to special models or limited editions, even though most of the special editions were limited! Getting complicated this isn't it? I don't think Cup cars should be included nor cars like the Esprit Sport 300. That was a bit more special than your average special edition. Exige LF1 was a good shout. Really nice inside and out. How about Exige Scura? That was mega. Always loved the British GT special. Best Exige paint job the factory ever did?

Best I actually bought was the 2006 Elise SportsRacer. Can’t speak highly enough about the 5 faultless years I enjoyed with that car. Nightfall blue with proper painted white stripes, hard top, blue stitching, alcantara, lovely forged wheels, uprated suspension - all special edition features that added to the experience. First Lotus to feature traction control too I believe? Launched in 2005, it heralded MY06 Elise spec. Special Edition I most wanted to own was the Elise RGB. Fantastic spec car and a nice gesture to celebrate the career of a development genius that did so much to shape the way modern Lotus cars drive. I always wanted a white one. Honorary mention to Jim Clark Elise Type 25. All three are fantastic cars that I’d be proud to own now.

Now that would be a bold move. Great idea though. On an Elise with removable door panels hopefully!

@LotusLeftLotusRight can speak for himself but I don't believe he thinks the Lexus is superior. But even if someone did, you have to consider what that brand preference is built upon. Whatever it is, Lotus will be needing plenty of it in the years ahead.

You should know the full story. The engineering and innovation in that car was incredible. But your comments are a great example of the prejudice that exists about cars and how hard it is to overcome. It probably didn't matter that the LS400 beat the Merc 420SE in many areas. You thought Lexus and wen't straight to 'nah'. Many people feel much the same about Lotus compared to Porsche and it will take a lot to convince them otherwise. This is the power of a stong brand. Whether or not you've ever owned a Mercedes, whether or not the Merc is actually better than a Lexus, you have been led to believe in the superiority of the Merc. Lotus need to lead people to believe in their cars beyond places like TLF too now. The point about the McLaren F1 was that it did wonders for the McLaren brand and changed perceptions by being first and foremost a road car. It was widely accepted as the greatest high-performance road car ever made at that time so it made a clear statement about McLaren being all about excellence, the ultimate in whatever they do. It wasn't much of a commercial success but it proved - and continued to prove for years after - that McLaren could make a better supercar than anyone else. Hell of a statement when Ferrari and others have been doing it for years. The F1 was very relevant to the 12C. There was massive anticipation for McLaren's next road car because of the F1, even after 15 years. Also 15 years later the F1 had become revered and respected even more than when it was launched. It's about brand building and changing perceptions about the McLaren brand from a maker of ultimate race cars to a maker of ultimate road cars. They did that with one car. Sadly for McLaren it's something that build quality and reliability issues seem to be undoing now. McLaren is a much more accessible brand than it was but it is losing some of the allure with that. Car companies do what they have to, to make money but too many brands are sold cheap with short term thinking. A brand is a promise and keeping your promises is how you build trust with your customers.

Been ages since we had a special edition! Never had a problem with them myself, never understood why it became 'a thing' online to moan about them. My Elise Sportsracer was a fantastic car and I'd happily find another. Elise RGB was a corker too! Might have to start a thread on great special editions just to wind up the playground!

I think the new Giulia GTA is terrific but not at that price. Especially when I can get a really nice used 510bhp QF, for well under £40k. Very frustrating we can't get the manual version but otherwise that's pretty much my ideal daily runner. If I had to choose one car that would probably be it. I hope the GTA is a success, fantastic to see Alfa making cars like that. I'm also a big admirer of the thunderous Jaguar XE Project 8, even more performance at a similar price but that has not been the success Jaguar were hoping for. Getting back to selling Lotus past £100k it does seem like a tall order right now but again that's because there has been no attempt as yet to explain and persuade why anyone should spend that on a Lotus and what they'll get for it if they do. As posted on another thread Toyota had a mountain to climb to compete with Mercedes and BMW when they introduced the Lexus LS400. It's a great automotive story actually. Toyota had to build a brand from scratch that could compete with long established and respected car brands, steeped in heritage and renouned for their engineering quality. It has often been said that the Mercedes Benz S class is consistently the best engineered car in the world. It was audacious to say the least to have a go at that at your first attempt. It cost Toyota a fortune but they laid the groundwork well in advance of the launch. A great international print campaign took ownership of something all the car makers were doing - continuous improvement. The japanese term for it - Kaizen - sounded more exotic, ritualistic and meticulous, they centred on that and boiled it down to: The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection. The engineers gave them great stories of real innovation to talk about. But above all they didn't limit their aim to catching-up with the europeans, a big enough ambition and task. Lead engineer Ichiro Suzuki was hellbent on beating them. In key target areas he succeeded. The late 80's Mercedes 420SE's cabin noise was measured at 63db at 62mph and 78 db at 124mph. The Lexus LS400 was significantly quieter inside at speed with 58db at 62mph and 73db at 124mph. Incredible achievement that Lotus would be wise to study. In terms of image, association and reputation Lotus have a similar mountain to climb. McLaren took a huge stride forward as a road car maker with the F1. The Evija shows similar audacity and ambition which is great to see, I hope it does something similar for Lotus. But as it stands the people out there who are indifferent towards Lotus need to be convinced.

Yet if it was a woman driving and having an affair with another (black, disabled, trans) woman it would be celebrated as a WOKE masterpiece! More importantly the car looks amazing, exotic, exciting and desirable beyond its price.

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David Pittard sends it first class!

Noted. I'll get in touch with Tredwear and see what the score is.

Anyone heard from Andy lately? Quiet around here without him. Anyhoo, who wants a Cayman/Alpine rival at £60k? Or would you prefer a jnr McLaren at £110k? Assume amazing styling, Lotus dynamics, ICE engine and more daily useability applies equally to both.

You just have to go one better don't you! 😁 Stick that on your CV and send it in to Lotus, just what they're looking for!

Senseless to wait until the new car launch before starting to talk to potential customers. Lexus starting promoting the company's philosophy long before you could buy an LS400. The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection campaign was based on the Japanese principle of Kaizen (continuous improvement). The thought that went into that first car was incredible. Just one example - an engineer called Ichiro Suzuki devised an anti-aging program to ensure the quality and longevity of components and finishes. The ambition was that a 50,000 mile LS400 should feel, sound and drive exactly like a brand new one. Most would say he achieved that. Things like this were promoted in a terrific print campaign, paving the way towards launch. Like Lotus does now, Toyota had a huge hill to climb to convince anyone that a Japanese car could match and even surpass the best European saloons. This was the late 80s remember, Japanese cars were of thought more like Chinese or Korean cars today. They worked tirelessly with the ambition of making the best luxury saloon in the world and they told people what they had done in an engaging way. It's a fascinating story. They put the ground work in, built a brand from scratch and reaped the rewards. But as you point out, perhaps they consider spending time and money on educating people about what's great about the current cars to be counter productive. There seems to be a strong desire to distance themselves from the fantastic cars that have taken the company to this point. Didn't work out well for Bahar either.

I think there are endemic problems within our big corporations and the sort of people that succeed in these environments. Chapman type characters probably wouldn't do very well within a large corporation, they don't play the game and haven't got the patience for the procrastination and meetings about meetings. In my experience it's often the people that aren't especially talented but are smart enough to know their limitations that often thrive. They quickly work out how to survive on bluff and bluster and know exactly when to keep their mouths shut and who's arse to kiss. The proliferation of buzz words is a perfect example. They're a way of making you sound more clever than you are, that you know more than anyone else. The core competency here being the ability to level-up by picking the low-hanging fruit to really get the ideation needle moving.

No official renders online to my knowledge. No way anyone’s going to share them if they had them either. Nothing to gain, everything to lose by doing so.

Swiftly back on topic.... Looking amazing and exotic is certainly going to help the next car find some homes. The Cayman is actually quite awkward looking from most angles, to say the least. For a car of undeniable capability it's remarkable how undesireable I find it. Many 'worse' cars appeal a lot more. Boxster Spyder for a start. But not everyone wants to be gawped at, a Cayman will certainly end most journeys without being noticed. There are advantages to that for a daily driver. Having seen the early design renders for the next car it looks like it belongs in a completely different catagory to the Cayman. There's a reasonable chance that the management might seek to tone it down for a number of reasons. Firstly to distance it further from the Evija and to also send out the right message that this is a daily useable car and make it more obviously Caymany. That seems to be increasingly important to those now steering the ship. There's a lot of baggage they want Lotus to get away from, not least people like me! They won't be keen on anything that reinforces the preconceptions that Lotus only make tiny, austere, track cars. However, that's if they manage to deliver it as a Cayman level car. Note the £55k-£100k spread recently mentioned is very broad, deliberately so to keep their options open. I think the big decision they're having to take right now is where to position this new car. This is of course pure speculation entirely for lockdown entertainment purposes but I reckon a Cayman/Alpine level car at the £55+k end, would mean toned down styling, a few compromises made inside and 4 cyl turbo more likely. The £100+k baby McLaren/Esprit level car means going all-in on styling, higher-end interior and V6. Which would you personally prefer and be more likely to buy? £55k basic Cayman competitor or £100+k junior supercar?

720S just sold on Collecting Cars for £124500 to a bloke called Tex. If that was you @Tex congrats! Epic car, fab spec, killer price! 👍👍👍

Precisely why all hopes lie with the continued involvement of the likes of Russell Carr and Gavan Kershaw. Not the new greasy pole climbers from JLR. Nobody apart from Rolls Royce perhaps is making cars 'for the passengers' so I don't get much reassurance from something that could be said of any performance car company. I have some great stories of some of the things the engineers did to preserve some Lotus attributes against JMG's instructions but perhaps too soon for a public forum. Where there's a will, there's a way!