Aerobat's S4 tune up

[t70]

very interesting.... the only "weird" brake problem I get is the pedal bouncing back at me... very bizarre. it's a very subtle feeling... but it's there.. btw... i don't bean an "ABS" kick-back... i mean just when I push the brakes when I'm stopped... they go down... and come back up...

Edited September 20, 2007 by Mark T-C

[fjmuurling]

Great work Mark,

Did stumble across this guide http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EM...argeCooler.html about an electric charge cooler pump on LEW. Information coming from LOTUS.

Freek

[DanR]

Mark, I think you'll find it was originally connected to the throttle jack solenoid and not the EBPV solenoid. The t/jack one comes on when the engine is cold. After the engine's warmed up it switches off and the EBPV solenoid switches on. They have their own relay and fuse too.

With my electric pump I just tapped into the EBPV solenoid. It's been working well and like the fuel pump circuit, isn't on when the key is in the accessories position. I should mention also that my car has the later or new harness layout.

[Artie]

Wow, good eye Mark. I too am like you, I don't want any kudo's until all is back together without issues!

Artie

[t70]

hmmm... very interesting... I'm not sure the wiring works that way in johns (with regards to the EBPV). The EBPV has power when the engine is cold... so therefore, I would think, it must not have power when the engine is hot. However, the whole system was not fused or relayed which is my biggest concern. So.. as it sits.. I still have to fuse the main power lead, but that will be done tomorrow evening.

Freek -- THANKS!! that's humorous actually... that's pretty much what I've done... with the exception of the extremely clean look that they've done with that diagram. My relay system isn't nearly as attractive.. .but for the moment, it will work. I'm kind of running out of time on this, and my biggest concern is to get it running WELL, and SOON..

Tonight I've finished pretty much everthing else. The only things I have left are:

Install the newly oiled filter

Top up the coolant

Install the fuse for the chargecooler

and blow out the radiator.

What got done tonight was:

Finished installing fuel vent hosing

re-fit and glued all the carpeting

re-installed back floor

re-installed passenger side rear inside quater

checked all clamps and hoses

Installed battery cover etc..

basically.. I put the finer bits back together

So, tomorrow... we test!

[aerobat]

I'm not sure if we have any pictures from tonight to post or not, but Mark was able to finish off everything necessary, and I've got my baby back!!

Finally, I can get 1 bar boost again, and everything is running smoother than it has, since I don't remember when.

Tomorrow will be spent washing, waxing, detailing, etc., and Sunday we'll have to take it on a bit of a drive to have the ECU re-learn its parameters.

My best birthday present today, thanks Mark!!

[t70]

You are very welcome John!!!!

See you in the afternoon!

[t70]

Well.... Here's the latest with Johns car... We had it on the road for two days and John said it still wasn't pulling right. I plugged in my wideband and discovered that the car runs very rich at idle without the stock o2 sensor hooked up. It also runs lean when light throttle is applied. I also ran the car with the stock o2 sensor hooked up and freescan. With freescan it ran with a 14.6 at idle, and stayed at 14.6 under light load. Now.... here comes the weird part.... I saw 9.6afr at WOT and 1 bar of boost! That's insanely rich. So, my thought is the MAP sensor is shot... or the injectors are the wrong size. I'm unsure as of yet though... I'm gonna replace the map sensor tomorrow and see if that fixes it. I'd rather spend more time on the car and properly analyze the situation... but we've only got 36 hours to solve the problem.

[Dermot]

Otis,

Some observation on your last post.

If you remove the narrowband O2 sensor the ECU will throw an error and run of rich lookup tables.

I trust you are not just looking at the A/F column in the Freescan log. This is not REAL TIME DATA, they are target values used by the ECU to calculate fuel delivery. The only real time data on A/F ratio is the voltage output from the narrowband O2 sensor. You are a better man than me if you can convert this to A/F value. I have tried many times to get a reliable functional form for the voltage output curve from the O2 sensor.

This is all explained in the Freescan manual it might be worth a read before you buy sensors.

[mikelr]

Well.... Here's the latest with Johns car... We had it on the road for two days and John said it still wasn't pulling right. I plugged in my wideband and discovered that the car runs very rich at idle without the stock o2 sensor hooked up. It also runs lean when light throttle is applied. I also ran the car with the stock o2 sensor hooked up and freescan. With freescan it ran with a 14.6 at idle, and stayed at 14.6 under light load. Now.... here comes the weird part.... I saw 9.6afr at WOT and 1 bar of boost! That's insanely rich. So, my thought is the MAP sensor is shot... or the injectors are the wrong size. I'm unsure as of yet though... I'm gonna replace the map sensor tomorrow and see if that fixes it. I'd rather spend more time on the car and properly analyze the situation... but we've only got 36 hours to solve the problem.

Dermot is right Otis,

What were the O2 sensor voltages during your freescan log? If you really want to see real time wide band readings while allowing the ECU to run the motor as it should you need to weld in a second bung so that you can run both sensors at once.

I doubt you have a bad map sensor. I would also look at the IAT temps to see how well the charge cooler is doing, if it's not fuctioning properly there will be a noticable drop in performance.

Let us know what you find.

[t70]

I understand what you are saying. I also know that there is a base map that the computer reverts to when the o2 sensor is disconnected... but at WOT the computer doesn't monitor O2... so, the readings I'm getting at WOT should be the same as when the stock o2 is hooked up. The o2 readings I've been using are live-real-time on the "Engine Data" screen. If the destination afr is 9.6... then there's something wrong with the ecu map or something. But... regardless of all that what I'm finding is very odd. The spark plugs are showing a lean situation under normal driving. At WOT I know it's rich... it's supposed to be... but not 9.6. It shouldn't be below 11.2-11.5.... and even that is low.. I would run it at about 12.0-12.5 at 15psi. So... here's the symptoms -- light throttle gives a lean situation (I can tell this by my own experience of what lean "feels like", what the plugs are telling me and what the o2 sensor is displaying).

Then... last night.. there was one point where the car went really lean on throttle application -- afr of 17 or so... That was according to the freescan... that can't possibly be the destination afr... anything over 14.7 is going to mis-fire badly. So... after it hit 17.. it jumped down to 12.? and took off... so... at first I thought... map sensor readings incorrect. but no.. apparently they simply fail completely... they don't just have erronous readings... so I'm down to fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator. I've checked the fuel pressure regulator in terms of what it's doing and (again using real-time-afr from freescan) it went from 12.2-13.2 with the vacuum line removed at idle... none of this makes any sense at all. Idle should be about 13.5-14.7... in fact idle is the one location i expect to see a stoich afr.

Here's something else -- as I'm running the car at neutral throttle throughout the rev range -- the afr does go above 14.7... almost everywhere...

oh yeah... mat is good... 28-33 degrees... I just fixed the circulation issue with the chargecooler... I'm less concerned with the power.. more concerned with why the afr is all over the place. This is what is causing the performance of the car to be sporradic... it doesn't seem to have any consistency to it's map.

[mikelr]

I'm still conderned that you are using the A/F number from freescan as some sort of diagnostic tool. It is not, don't even look at it. Do you have the means to take the car out with a lap top hooked up and do a log with freescan while driving steady state then under accelleration? If you could do that and then share the log that you capture we could better help you diagnos the problem.

The main value you should be looking at is the O2 voltage, during idle and some steady state light throttle openings it should bounce between .02 - .80 volts. Under wide open throttle the voltage should be in the upper voltage range. Look to see if during the full throttle blasts if you are generating any knock counts or there ia any knock retard being recorded. NO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE A/F RATIO DISPLAY, IT REALLY MEANS NOTHING.

[t70]

I'm still conderned that you are using the A/F number from freescan as some sort of diagnostic tool. It is not, don't even look at it. Do you have the means to take the car out with a lap top hooked up and do a log with freescan while driving steady state then under accelleration? If you could do that and then share the log that you capture we could better help you diagnos the problem.

The main value you should be looking at is the O2 voltage, during idle and some steady state light throttle openings it should bounce between .02 - .80 volts. Under wide open throttle the voltage should be in the upper voltage range. Look to see if during the full throttle blasts if you are generating any knock counts or there ia any knock retard being recorded. NO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE A/F RATIO DISPLAY, IT REALLY MEANS NOTHING.

Ok... as for laptop hooked up... that's how i got the readings. I had the laptop hooked up the whole time... watching all my numbers. I'm going to have to tap the hole out and stick in my wideband... as for what the car is doing... it's evidence all points to a lean situation... the plugs especially. I know what a lean situation feels like... I've tuned enough to know... and this car is lean under light throttle... if the afr means nothing then I'm going to have to tap out that hole tonight and see what I can find with my wideband.... if it is dropping to 9.6 according to my LM-1... then there's a real fuelling problem. It's almost like the darn computer isn't learning like it's supposed to.... we'll see later tonight.

[t70]

Well.. it's time for me to eat crow... I am definitely wrong about the afr being anything but a destination. I think that the car had re-mapped itself poorly.... Now it seems to be running better after yet another ecu reset. However, I do find the car has more power at about 80% throttle than at WOT. It's hitting as low as 9.8 AFR under full boost... this is WAY too rich for maximum power. The fuel pressure regulator under full boost sits at 65 psi and 40 psi at idle. 65 seems a bit high to me... but I haven't cross referenced the manual for that yet. I also decided to follow Arties advice and crank up the wastegate pressure a touch more. It now seems to respond a bit better. On my initial run.... as a side note... I had a total knock count of 7 after 10 minutes of running and it retarded the timing by 2 degrees.

Also... I want to apologize for my previous posts.. as they may have appeared harsh. They were harsh -- I was having a rather bad morning at work and the owner of the Dealership was on a rampage and it affected my attidude on line today...

[mikelr]

If you are obtaining 1 bar of boost then your fuel pressure is spot on (or close enough). The fuel regulator is a rising rate style where is increases fuel 1 psi for every pound of boost increase. Idle pressure should be around 43psi.

The knock counts are somewhat normal for the 907, though I would look closely at the knock retard event to see what may have caused it. The engine making more power at 80% throttle opening as opposed to full throttle may be the difference between open and closed lope operation. You may have to clear the ecu and let it relearn, adjusting the wastegate pressure is a slippery slope. It really has to be done with a dial indicator and set to factory spec for the ECU to properly control the boost pressure. Adjusting by "how the car feels" should be avoided. As for your prevoius posts, don't worry, I wasn't offended . Hope you get it all straightened out.

[t70]

I had adjusted the wastegate by the dial indicator... but I think it's actually better now that I adjusted it 2 more turns... It holds boost better and spools quicker and feels more consistent. 1 bar is frequently attainable and now....there's more questions than answers about the rest of the cars performance... but that's a question for another day... now I must go to bed.

[t70]

Well... That particular job went pretty much as planned. There are a few things we discovered on our trip though... all of which involved with the heating/cooling system that will be remedied this winter. However... here's what's on the go for this weekend:

As a few of you know..... John is now the proud owner of TWO esprits! A 2002 V8 and a 94 S4. So, this weekend we will be pulling both cars into my shop to swap over some of the equipment. I have a few extra things to do to the S4 that may happen later this winter, depends on the timing of other events in the shop and with the weather. I'm sure tonight/tomorrow we will have some fabulous pictures to present!

[aerobat]

Oh - such a sight of beauty.... 3 Calypso Red Esprits: Mark's 1988, my 1994 S4, and my newest - a 2002 V8. All three together in Mark's shop. What a sight!

[t70]

Guess I should have checked the rest of the forum before I posted my Lotus Porn in the General chat! Nice pics John!!!

[talon]

Awesome sight. Which bits and pieces are being transferred over to the V8?

[aerobat]

Mark's doing the work, so I'll let him explain in more detail. I have Crystal Titaniums on both cars, but I'm putting the 5-spoke OZ wheels back on the S4. I had upgrade the brakes on the S4 to WC engineering's 4-pot rears and new parking brakes, and his 6-pot brakes up front, all with big rotors. They'll be switched to the V8. We're looking at swapping the front coils. I also have a real carbon-fibre airbag steering wheel from TM Tuning, I'm going to swap over to the V8. De-catting. The rest, I think, is primarily maintenance issues.

In the not-too-distant future, I'll be looking at new turbos, BOV's, chip, and a new gearbox fitted with the Quaiffe LSD. Assuming money is no object. Of course it is, but that's the plans. Then I'll probably stop at that point...... ?

Edited November 25, 2007 by aerobat

[t70]

Well... the job has been larger than expected (of course). I don't think I've had a job yet that went "as planned." That's not a bad thing, just that sometimes the "interchange-able" parts aren't so "interchange-able". The rear brake swap required us to swap out the actual hub carriers in the rear suspension. Since we were there, we also swapped out the springs and shocks. We also swapped out steering wheels and moved the radar detector over to the V8.

With the rear end of both cars done and every bolt re-checked, we moved to the front. Now we have to do basically the same work on the front as well. Swap brakes, springs and shocks. Also swap brake lines and whatever other hardware will be necessary to adapt the new equipment. We have not actually finished the front end yet but we are into it for 13 hours so far... Not terribly long, but... longer than I expected for the job due to the extra pieces that were required to do the swap.

Here's the pics from the progress:

These first two pictures show the difference between the stock v8 brakes and the upgraded brakes that John had on his S4.

The next Couple of pictures show the hub carrier before and after removal.

Here's a shot of Gary working! (My other friend that works on these with me a lot)

And these shots are of the front suspension/brakes etc.. on each car.

And finally... anybody want a lowered Esprit?? (neat angle of a shot gives the illusion of about 1/2" of ground clearance)

[garry_ludwar@hotmail.com]

wow mark im honored thanks for the nod

it only took 2 years of working in that shop for you to share the glory lol

but who cares its been fun

[t70]

Actually, you've been noted on other forums... celicasupra.com and redz31.com.... you just didn't know about it.

[garry_ludwar@hotmail.com]

oh well im sry for the mistake although i dont recall being much of a help on either of those

i dindt show up untill the 300 was nearly done and while you were puttering with the supra i was fighting with those lazers