headlight pod spring orientation back to front?

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

I commented some weeks back about how my headlight springs seem to be very different tensions -which was met with tumbleweed! It's still puzzling me. I should take some photos but I'll describe the arrangement for now:

The right pod spring naturally folds backwards when I fit and bolt in the pod because the coil kind of faces backwards whilst the 'scissors' of the spring arms face forwards. BUT the left pod spring naturally folds forwards for the opposite reason: the coil faces forwards and the scissors backwards.  It cannot work like that because the coil jams against the front of the pod as that retracts down and the spring coil folds forwards.  To make it operate correctly, once the pod is fitted I have to tie something around the coil and force drag it backwards past the arms. It then snaps backwards into the same position as the right spring. This puts much greater tension on the coil because it is effectively being wound tighter than its natural position. This is why it feels to have so much more tension -it actually does.  Have I lost you all by now?  Anyone still awake? 

Good. So it therefore seems to me that the left spring has been put on back to front. If it were turned around its natural position would be to fold backwards. Anyone have any knowledge or experience of this?  My only solution is to try and take the spring off. This means at one end, bending it straight to remove it front the diaphragm and removing what appear to be a pair of inverse star washers from the hinge rod that bolts to the pod on the other end.  These are very tight! I think I might have to cut them off, which means sourcing some more of the correct size..  Hence the appeal here: does anyone know what on earth I'm on about and even better, have any bright ideas? 

[TAR]

A picture speaks a thousand words  

[Gray14]

Do you have a workshop manual?  My Eclat is a series 2 so I have a different system.

Attaching a diagram from R Dents manuals in case that helps.

 

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

As above, that's how the right side spring sits but the left is as attached photo. I suppose I'm just wondering if everyone else's is the same and if mine was altered, why, when it just doesn't seem to work and why go to the trouble when the mechanism really isn't designed to be taken apart?

This photo may also help illustrate:

[TAR]

Both springs should be in the same orientation. Has someone reversed the rod?  

[Gazm]

Just seen this. 
My Elite is currently at PNM for various items. One was a weak NS headlight spring. It seems the spring was fitted the wrong way around, so you are not alone. 

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

Tar, the whole spring has to be removed to arrive at this arrangement, not just reversing the rod.  

Thanks Gazm. It's not just me then 😁 but was it your NS (weak) spring that is reckoned to be the wrong way around or the OS which would be too tight like mine? On the basis that "all springs are made equal", it shouldn't be possible to have a weak spring the wrong way around. I wonder if your car has actually weak vacuum system as well as the OS spring the wrong way around?   I'm in danger of getting drawn into your problem, which is for PNM to sort 🙃😉

I'm still baffled as to why the spring on mine is the wrong way around: those starlock sprung washers are horrible things to remove once on and the end of the spring arm takes some force to bend it straight to extract from the diaphragm housing - basically you can't casually assemble it wrong after a bit of DIY fiddling about. Everything suggests this is how it came from the factory: Friday afternoon car!?

[Gazm]

This is the OS spring correctly fitted. As the pod drops it compresses the spring. 

This is the NS spring fitted incorrectly. As the pod lowers the spring is opened up. 

My vacuum system is very strong. The lights stay down for days. 

[Tony D]

Both Sides on my car are identical and look like the first "correct" photo above. The coil should 'close down' as the load is applied during lowering of the pod.  In the second photo, the coil would open up.

 I note in second photo the bend retaining the spring on the vac pod is only bent about 45 deg. It's a 90 deg bend on both mine and in the first photo. Might not be too difficult therefore to tease the spring out and slot it in from the other end.

It's not necessary to worry about removing the star washers on the rod and turning it round. It's symmetrical.  Worst case, it might be necessary to slid the washers along the rod a little. If needed, I'd find a small socket (around 10 or 11mm) that slides over the rod and supports the inner face of the star washer, then support in a vice and tap the rod down as needed.

Tony

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

6 hours ago, Gazm said:

This is the OS spring correctly fitted. As the pod drops it compresses the spring. 

This is the NS spring fitted incorrectly. As the pod lowers the spring is opened up. 

My vacuum system is very strong. The lights stay down for days. 

Interesting; my right hand (OS) spring is fitted like your NS and works perfectly well.. and when I turn my NS over-tight spring around, it will also fit the same way  ...will report back in due course.

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

4 hours ago, Tony D said:

Both Sides on my car are identical and look like the first "correct" photo above. The coil should 'close down' as the load is applied during lowering of the pod.  In the second photo, the coil would open up.

 I note in second photo the bend retaining the spring on the vac pod is only bent about 45 deg. It's a 90 deg bend on both mine and in the first photo. Might not be too difficult therefore to tease the spring out and slot it in from the other end.

It's not necessary to worry about removing the star washers on the rod and turning it round. It's symmetrical.  Worst case, it might be necessary to slid the washers along the rod a little. If needed, I'd find a small socket (around 10 or 11mm) that slides over the rod and supports the inner face of the star washer, then support in a vice and tap the rod down as needed.

Tony

Tony, on mine (at least) it is necessary to remove the star locks because the spring needs to come off the rod to turn it around.  The diaphragm plunger does not swivel in the diaphragm pod to allow the rod and whole spring to turn around. Also the starlocks/spring/diaphragm plunger are offset from centre along the rod.  The joy of hand built cars eh 🙃

[Tony D]

2 hours ago, ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou said:

Tony, on mine (at least) it is necessary to remove the star locks because the spring needs to come off the rod to turn it around.  The diaphragm plunger does not swivel in the diaphragm pod to allow the rod and whole spring to turn around. Also the starlocks/spring/diaphragm plunger are offset from centre along the rod.  The joy of hand built cars eh 🙃

Fair point. I missed that. New star washers are readily available on ebay so I'd just cut the old ones off.

[ThatsMrBowlheadtoyou]

What I've done: turned the NS spring around. This required removal of the complete diaphragm pod and rod etc. By pulling the whole lot out, the rod could be held in a vice and the starlocks tapped off the rod and re-used.  This means both springs are the same and feel the same tension now, which was the aim.  They ARE incorrectly compressing/opening -according to the book and collective wisdom above, but not too weak at all to raise the lights. Perhaps they should be snappier?  That is controlled by the speed of release of the diaphragms as well as the spring tension.  I have no other references yet.  One day I'll get to a Lotus meet and be able to see how quickly others raise and feel how much tension is on other springs. Grateful for all help.