wastegate capsules

[mike_sekinger]

basically the only difference I see here is that the 12psi wastegate still affects the engine the same way as the weaker STOCK wastegate..

however the weaker one simply opens earlier and barely hits 12psi..(1 bar) where as the stronger wastegate will not fully open until (1bar)..

basically you are just getting more boost for a longer time.. but the same boost level is achieved with even the stock wastegate.. just for a moment though as opposed for as long as the ECU wants it to due to the new wastegate.

? I think this makes sense

1 Bar = 14.7psi at standard sea level...

12psi = a shade over 0.8 Bar

[Paula&Marcus]

Bingo !!!!! Yeah !!!!

I wonder if some of the confusion is about where these pressures are acting .. Am I right to suggest that the 0.4 bar is the pressure applied to the capsule diaphragm needed to open the wastegate, whereas the target 0.8-1.0 bar is the pressure in the turbo acting on the wastage valve?

The ECU will bleed pressure away from the wastegate capsule preventing it opening until the desired boost level is reached - but in order for this to work, the valve must stay shut with up to 0.8-1.0 bar inside the turbo, otherwise, regardless of what the ECU is requesting, the valve is forced open by pressure in the turbo.

So, we need a capsule that can open the wastage with 0.4 bar applied to it for "safety", but will hold the wastgate shut with 0.8-1.0 bar inside the turbo .... correct? Do I get a free chip? ;-)

[mamovaka]

1 Bar = 14.7psi at standard sea level...

12psi = a shade over 0.8 Bar

ops.. well I don't know that is why I posted.. however my wastegates are opening at 12psi btw completely

Bingo !!!!! Yeah !!!!

but paula and marcus, the wastegate I ordered from claudius is the EXACT one that does just that.. it still will fully open at 12psi regardless when that pressure is applied to it but it holds shut FAR better than the stock wastegates which are pathetically weak

Spoke to Johan today and brough up these issues and he doesn't agree that spikes exist with this particular set up.. he claims that regardless the boost will be exited at the 12psi time..

I had the car DYNOED today the numbers were

WHEEL HP

386

WHEEL TQ

363

I am happy with these numbers and my mods..

Also though at the DYNO the graphs do not show any violent HP/TQ spikes that would be indicative of overboost.. I made 4 runs (2 in 3rd and 2 in 4th) and all of them were within 5-10hp of eachother (engine heat plus the way I was accelerating made more of a different than anything else)

This would lead me to believe that in at least these 4 runs the car's power is consistent (aka no spikes)

Edited November 8, 2007 by mamovaka

[peter_england99]

Mamovaka,

Congratulations on the Dyno. Nice figures, especially the torque.

Have you got any OBD-II scans of the Dyno runs? I'd love to see what inlet temps (IAT) and boost (MAP) you were developing. What is the spec of your car now?

Regards,

Peter.

ops.. well I don't know that is why I posted.. however my wastegates are opening at 12psi btw completely

but paula and marcus, the wastegate I ordered from claudius is the EXACT one that does just that.. it still will fully open at 12psi regardless when that pressure is applied to it but it holds shut FAR better than the stock wastegates which are pathetically weak

Spoke to Johan today and brough up these issues and he doesn't agree that spikes exist with this particular set up.. he claims that regardless the boost will be exited at the 12psi time..

I had the car DYNOED today the numbers were

WHEEL HP

386

WHEEL TQ

363

I am happy with these numbers and my mods..

Also though at the DYNO the graphs do not show any violent HP/TQ spikes that would be indicative of overboost.. I made 4 runs (2 in 3rd and 2 in 4th) and all of them were within 5-10hp of eachother (engine heat plus the way I was accelerating made more of a different than anything else)

This would lead me to believe that in at least these 4 runs the car's power is consistent (aka no spikes)

[mike_sekinger]

I had the car DYNOED today the numbers were

WHEEL HP

386

WHEEL TQ

363

Excellent numbers - that torque figure is quite something ; -))

I

[mamovaka]

Mamovaka,

Congratulations on the Dyno. Nice figures, especially the torque.

Have you got any OBD-II scans of the Dyno runs? I'd love to see what inlet temps (IAT) and boost (MAP) you were developing. What is the spec of your car now?

Regards,

Peter.

the mods on my esprit are (try not to forget anything)

power mods:

Johan chip

magnaflow cats

muffler delete

yellow wastegate capsules

k&n air filter

other mods:

steel braided brake lines

4 core radiator

5 point seat harness

fire extinguishing system for engine

probably forgot something but these are main things

[gmendoza]

Great numbers Pano!!! Although those numbers confim that you are making more than 12psi of boost. A V8 with high flow air filters, exhaust and ECU at a true 12psi will make about 370rwhp/330rwtq.

Those numbers look like that of a boost curve that spikes to 17-18psi for a split second (any fast spooling turbo will spike; it's not voilent) settle at around 15psi and taper off to 13-14psi by redline.

[peter_england99]

Great spec. Mine is similar:

Marcus Red Chip

Muffler delete

Yellow waistgate capsules

K&N air filter.

I just need to get some sports cats. Should really dyno before and after to really understand what improvements are gained.

Could you post the dyno chart. The curves would be interesting.

Regards,

Peter.

the mods on my esprit are (try not to forget anything)

power mods:

Johan chip

magnaflow cats

muffler delete

yellow wastegate capsules

k&n air filter

other mods:

steel braided brake lines

4 core radiator

5 point seat harness

fire extinguishing system for engine

probably forgot something but these are main things

[mamovaka]

Here is the dyno, take a look..

4 runs

3 in 3rd

1 in 4th

on some of them I let off at about 6700 and didn't get on it at the right moments hence the changing numbers.. also dependant on engine temp etc.

Great spec. Mine is similar:

Marcus Red Chip

Muffler delete

Yellow waistgate capsules

K&N air filter.

I just need to get some sports cats. Should really dyno before and after to really understand what improvements are gained.

Could you post the dyno chart. The curves would be interesting.

Regards,

Peter.

Peter do you have a boost controller on your car? can you confirm with this setup that you are getting boost spikes via the controller like gmendoza mentioned?

Edited November 8, 2007 by mamovaka

[mike_sekinger]

the mods on my esprit are (try not to forget anything)

power mods:

Johan chip

magnaflow cats

muffler delete

yellow wastegate capsules

k&n air filter

other mods:

steel braided brake lines

4 core radiator

5 point seat harness

fire extinguishing system for engine

probably forgot something but these are main things

...turbos?....

[mamovaka]

Stock Turbo's

when I said Marcus I meant Peter earlier sorry.

Edited November 8, 2007 by mamovaka

[mike_sekinger]

Stock Turbo's

No way........ !

Wow, that is incredible.

[mamovaka]

No way........ !

Wow, that is incredible.

looking at the dyno runs do you see boost spikes?

[mike_sekinger]

looking at the dyno runs do you see boost spikes?

Show me the MAP...... ; -))

[mamovaka]

I do not think I have the map.. the ecu wasn't connected to the dyno..

[kyliesmith.com]

Pano thanks for sharing and rather impressive figures esp for stock turbos too! Gosh it must go like stink!

I have similar mods apparently and intend to see how mine stacks up when she gets here so I know where I am at.... so theres hope atleast - Good stuff!!!

[gmendoza]

looking at the dyno runs do you see boost spikes?

You won't see "spikes", just one. And yes, your graph shows that. Look at the shape of your tq curve. Notice how your tq spikes up as your turbos spool up then your tq tapers off. Boost is doing the same thing ending at ~ 13psi at 7k rpms.

If your boost was a consistant 12psi, then your peak tq would be lower but the curve would be alot flatter.

Edited November 8, 2007 by gmendoza

[peter_england99]

Mamovaka,

I don't have an additional boost controller. I rely on the standard boost control given by Markus' Red ECU code. I'm worried with a seperate boost controller that it will 'fight' with the ECU over what boost levels are allowed at any given situation (Engine load, Throttle opening, IAT, etc.)

I would of thought that Johan's chip also doesn't need an additional boost controller.

Regards,

Peter.

Peter do you have a boost controller on your car? can you confirm with this setup that you are getting boost spikes via the controller like gmendoza mentioned?

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All, Hi Pano,

Your figures look very well ! Its exactly what I would expect from a healthy Esprit V8 engine with Red ECU, removed brick-like cats, proper wastegate actuators/capsules, at around 0.9-1.0 bar max boost on a cool day.

Your max. wheel power is around 385 HP what translates into around 450 HP crank power. (JFYI, the transmission loss is somewhere between 15-18% with our Esprits)

If you actually did not run boost more than 0.9-1.0 bar then your engine has a VERY good efficiency ! (How was the ambient temp on that day ?)

Cheers

Marcus

Edited November 9, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[mamovaka]

Mamovaka,

I don't have an additional boost controller. I rely on the standard boost control given by Markus' Red ECU code. I'm worried with a seperate boost controller that it will 'fight' with the ECU over what boost levels are allowed at any given situation (Engine load, Throttle opening, IAT, etc.)

I would of thought that Johan's chip also doesn't need an additional boost controller.

Regards,

Peter.

I just spoke to Johan about this and you are correct the car has no boost controller, therefore Johan contends that there are no unhealthy spikes... and boost will always be ejected once the car hits 12psi.. he claims for a moment there may be above 12psi boost if you lay on the throttle hard and fast but that is normal with any car as the ecu/wastegates struggle to catch up to sudden power..

With that said.. what is the consensus here with the 12psi wastegates? still considered 100% safe with stock internals?!

Hi All, Hi Pano,

Your figures look very well ! Its exactly what I would expect from a healthy Esprit V8 engine with Red ECU, removed brick-like cats, proper wastegate actuators/capsules, at around 0.9-1.0 bar max boost on a cool day.

Your max. wheel power is around 385 HP what translates into around 450 HP crank power. (JFYI, the transmission loss is somewhere between 15-18% with our Esprits)

If you actually did not run boost more than 0.9-1.0 bar then your engine has a VERY good efficiency ! (How was the ambient temp on that day ?)

Cheers

Marcus

so is my wheel torque closer to 430 would you say?

[gmendoza]

... for a moment there may be above 12psi boost if you lay on the throttle hard and fast but that is normal with any car as the ecu/wastegates struggle to catch up to sudden power..

Textbook definition of "boost spike" :yes

Also, notice how Marcus said that's exactly what a healty V8 should make under ideal conditions and 0.9-1 bar of boost (14-15psi).

Like I said before, I think you sould verify your boost. Johan's telling you what it should be in theory but there's no way to tell without hooking up a boost gauge.

[mamovaka]

yeah I will hook up a pc to it and do some runs in the near future and let you know

I spoke to a few other esprit people with this dyno chart/mods and they are telling me it looks all a-ok..

However I do plan to check the boost via PC anyway.. many guages are innacurate..

Gmendoza I am ok with it going above 12psi for a split second.. that is ok in my book..

Edited November 9, 2007 by mamovaka

[Günter]

Pano

i wish i cut have a gearbox witch can resist such tourque figures and horsepower. But for now im happy to be in the "under 300HP range"

[mamovaka]

I rebuilt my box 9 months ago but other than that it's stock.. I just don't speed shift the car..

[Günter]

even for rebuild i need money that i can not spend in the moment. But with its actual overal behaivior i think i can run the car also in the next years, so there is definatly a rebuild planed for the future... .

Look into your mirror , im comming to beat you in 20xx with high compression full chargecooled Top-Ethanol racecar ....for sure

no worrys im just kidging

Edited November 9, 2007 by G