Climate change?

[Atle]

So it's November 5th, I live in Norway and I am still driving my Esprit to work every morning. Usually by this time of the year the roads are covered with cold, white stuff and those without garages have to plow out their cars, shovel off the white stuff and scrape the windows free of ice.

I had planned to garage the car October 15th but now, with this mild weather I have had an extra 2,5 weeks of driving so far. Yesterday it was like 11 degrees celcius, this morning was colder and there was this sheen on the road so I took it easy. The ice warning lamps went ballistic.

In one way really great, in another way food for thought.

[Autocross7]

Most of "it" is just rubbish that the global media need to stir up. If you move beyond the historical record and into the geological record, it becomes clear that the Earth goes through cycles - some very warm. all older than the current weather records.

Fact, Greenland was farm land and pasture land when the first folks from Norway landed there. There is one hell of an archiological dig there that suggest a thousand plus settlement with sheep, grape vines, and such.

In the USA, on Lake Superior, or actually 7 feet (about two meters) below the current level, there has been a harbor area located. Along with it... a settlement mostly still under water. Keep in mind the media is focusing on the fact that the lake is about 8 feet "below normal". This would put the harbor and the town 15 feet below the "normal level". Guess the folks there 2 - 3 thousand years ago had submarines?

Also, most of the weathering on the Sphinx in Egypt has been determined to be from rain as I understood from the last lecture... rain... Egypt... Nobody seems to question that the Sun burns hotter and cooler through roughly 12 year cycles. We are at one of those hotter peaks right now according to NASA...

Here in Alabama we are having one of the best Fall seasons I can remember! I say ENJOY the great weather and keep on driving that Esprit to work!

Cameron

[GasketsGone]

Cameron....you are soooooo right....

one of my pet hates at the moment....blame everything on global warming.......

a long time ago i had a very very clever geography/geology teacher...as he used to say....the meteorology versus geology evidence is either...

1. completely contradictory OR

2. demonstrates a cycle of events that far out stretch both human lifespan and records of daily events, so far recorded, as to be useful in any "scientifically controlled" experiment as per any "basic" educational level teaches or prescribes....

anyway soap...box....finished.... nearly......

Atle...make the most of it...cos if the gulf steam fails like it almost did 300 or so years ago, it'll be 6ft under he white stuff here - never mind in Norway!!!!

just enjoy it before the tree huggers make it illegal to enjoy yourself while producing a lot less pollution than the train/bus they want you to take to work!!!!

jim

[cly_mitchell]

83 F here today. Cold front moving in though. tomorrow will be 65!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Clay

[redshift]

....blame everything on global warming.......

Until 'warming' didnt fit their evidence so it became 'climate change'

There are only 2 scientifically accurate facts today:

i) Many 'scientists' are happy to go along with this because there are lots of research grants available. Also known as the gravy train effect.

ii) Politicians can pick which of these 'scientific' analyses (see (i) ) that best fits the model of a taxable commodity.

The only independant data I have ever seen that gave a near-perfect correlation was that of temperature deviation -v- solar activity. Used to be available in the NASA archives, has been 'file not found' for many years now......

[Setras]

Scientist have confirmed the current of warm water from the tropics to the poles has slowed down, which could mean the start of an ice age. or is it more scare mongering.........

Why haven't they mentioned the rest of the bodies in the solar systems that are experiencing the same warming as us???

it is all tax, tax, tax, money, money money

[Atle]

Yeah, this is quite a hot topic. Guess it's like here, in all "developed" countries; this climate thing has now surpassed soccer as the national religion.

Every newspaper article, every news flash, every talkshow, every commercial - yes even toiletpaper quality is subject to climate change appraisals.

It reminds me somewhat of that magnificent Black Adder episode where everybody takes up everything French, and those who do not follow are ridiculed.

My climate-religious neighbours and relatives look at my 4-pot toy with disgust, whining along in their battery operated vehicles, usually justifiably far above the speed limit..

One may discuss yay or nay, and with small children the discussions do scare at least me - but what makes me question the whole thing are these (fading?) celebrities constantly showing their worried faces on talkshows massing the climate problem - then driving home in their monstrous SUVs...

I wrote on another thread that Aha star Magne Furuholmen visited me the other day in need of technical advice on the Al Gore Nobel Peace Prize sculpture he has been commissioned with. He left in the biggest Merc SUV I have ever seen. It was like the Battlestar Galactica on wheels. Whoops....this is a closed forum, no?

er....afternoon sun is shining, it's 54 F - time to take a drrrrrive!

[Autocross7]

After seeing mount illiama pop its top in Alaska, I found myself wondering how much more crap was being put into the air by the mountain than our automobiles? This was not even a 'real' explosion as volcanos are concerned. Quite pretty from the distance I maintained...

But, someone smarter about vulcanology than I am could prob. tell us how much crap is getting spewed up, then quantify it for some comparos. Why... no reason. Just wondering how much muck goes up? Really, I would like to get that power under control and wrap it in sleek Lotus shape for the road!

Drive roofless!!! (Except around volcanos)

Cameron

[DanR]

This

http://www.cfactcampus.org/index.php?optio...6&Itemid=61

has some interesting points.

[stephenbirdsall]

Very interesting article, it certainly fits with some of the things that I believe. I'll forward that to one of my colleagues who already knows that I don't buy into the global warming official line.

[Kjakk]

It is unfortunate that issues like this are usually represented as all or nothing. The only way to comment on it is to pick a side. While I can see the logic in the arguments against climate change theories, I would not be so bold as to claim that human activity has had absolutely zero negative effect on the climate either.

[t70]

I agree! To think that our pollution has ZERO effect on the atmostphere and environment... is pathetic. I'm not saying that the earth is not cyclic... but that does not mean we aren't accellerating it. And... if we are wrong... and I hope we're not... this man makes a very good point (albiet, it's a logic arguement, not a statistical one):

[Tony K]

I got a real laugh a year or so ago when they had that international conference on global warming -- IIRC, parts of North America, Europe, and elsewhere had record low temperatures that day!

By the way, what ever happened to the hole in the ozone layer? I guess they finally gave up on that, realizing they were full of s**t with that, too! (in that it already existed long before we discovered it) ...Oh, wait, I think after complaining about the hole, we were more recently subjected to dangerously high levels of it. Make up your minds! lol

If people are worried about carbon dioxide, why don't they just plant some trees? I plant trees. Don't trees turn carbon dioxide into oxygen?

Edited November 7, 2007 by Tony K

[Autocross7]

Yes... and without implying anything, there is a certain type of weed (common in Jamaica) that really pulls in the CO2. So much so that it has been noted as one of the best possible terraforming plants to put on Mars by scientist that study such things. When carbon DI oxside became the same 'greenhouse gas' threat as carbon MON oxide, I decided that there are def. a few folks out there that needed something to worry about...

Don't get me wrong on this issue, I do think we need to be good residents of the planet. I think we should worry about what we can do better, not what we can't... after all, my turbo needs clean cool air to compress into an explosion of 'haulass' power!

Cameron

Edited November 7, 2007 by Autocross7

[BadJelly350]

Hmmm. Bit of a shame to see so many intelligent (owning an Esprit does suggest a decent IQ) people spouting so much pap.

Global warming is not 'hot air' well not unless your views are aligned with say the US government's, or perhaps Australia (even more grossly energy inefficient as a country than the US). The only reason the IPCC were unable to use more absolute language in describing just how responsible humans are for the state of affairs is because of the argumentative stance of the representatives from the major oil producing nations.

Natural cycles exist of course. Solar activity is cyclical, again not in dispute. Claiming they are the reason for global warming trends; for increased atmospheric CO2 concentrations; for the slowing of the gulf stream; for the loss of biodiversity is irresponsible beyond belief. Remember smoking was good for you once and the corporations involved clung onto their profits for as long as they possibly could delaying legislation, and simply lying about the facts. This is no different apart from the fact that this time we are damaging the planet and we're all going to lose.

I've recently moved to California from the UK and I've gone from being 'concerned' as a UK citizen to being downright bl**dy annoyed at the cavalier attitude of so many people I've met in the US. People seem to think it's fine that you can't buy renewal energy in most states, that gas is so cheap that massive V8's in family heaps is 'ok' (I mean $3/gallon, that's pathetic, slap a decent tax on it and use the money to fund green initiatives), that portions of food are large enough for 3 people, that (according to Gore) US cars are so inefficient they fail to meet Chinese legislation....the list is depressingly endless.

This is a huge country that could be such a positive agent for change. Ain't gonna happen while that lunatic and all his oil-addicted cronies run the show.

And let's not even get onto the supposed 'green' alternative that Bush seems to like so much now. Cut down forests, plant oil producing crops and then burn that instead of foreign crude. Great plan George.

A while ago the head of one of the major coal /energy companies suggested that we should all burn more coal. His 'theory' was that the extra CO2 in the atmosphere would assist crop growth (as plants like CO2) and we'd all get more food. This 'fact' was used to support numerous policy decisions that adversely affected the environment. We now know increased CO2 doesn't increase crop yield but it's too late, the legacy of this and similar false truths is still here.

Nothing seems to get done here because the lobbyists run everything. There's plenty or literature (factual stuff, not green propaganda) out there that's not even slightly difficult to find. I have read a lot of it and I am doing things to reduce my footprint which is why I don't mind sticking my size 11's into this particular thread.

Oh and the best evidence on the ozone hole is that the international agreement to ban CFC use actually resulted in reduced levels in the upper atmosphere and the hole is starting to repair itself. As an aside, if we'd chosen the far more atmospherically active bromine instead of chlorine for the chemicals most of the ozone would be gone now and we'd all be worried about skin cancer. Blind luck saved us that time.

So I guess rant over. Do your own research. Don't just jump onto either side of this bandwagon without at least trying to distinguish the facts from the spin (of which there is a significant amount on both sides). You don't need to be an environmental-religious nut to take an interest and actually do your own bit to make a difference (is everyone here using CFL's for example? If not, wtf not?) whilst still being able to enjoy an Esprit on a regular basis.

Andy

[cly_mitchell]

California huh? Well, your in the right place.

Cheers

Clay