Questions about changing the engine

[stephenbirdsall]

I've been thinking about the Esprit and engine changes (prompted by the Audi engined machine) and wondered what you all think of fitting an Elise engine into an Esprit. The reason behind this is partially to do with cost, if I can't afford to maintain the engine sufficiently, I'll be in danger of becoming a DPO, which is not an option.

I've also heard that a lot of Elise owners change their engines for more powerful ones so there is a glut of the originals around, bringing the price down. On top of that, I imagine that the parts are more readily available. I guess that would then have the advantage of still containing a Lotus engine.

First off, is it technically possible? Would it be possible to fit just the engine or would I be likely to need to also get hold of the transmission?

Would I lose a certain something that you only get with Esprit engines?

I know that I would probably lose a bit of power due to it being a smaller engine, but would it still work?

Would this be a good way to resurrect a G car that has a good body and chassis, but poor engine?

Would I be biting off more than I could chew? Would any of you like to be involved in something like this?

What do you all think?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm already into the realms of fantasy with thinking about buying an Esprit, I'd rather not go down dead ends with my dreams!

Stephen

[mwmackenzie]

That's the craziest thing i've ever heard!! 118bhp esprit?? why?? elise head gaskets go on a regular basis and that's when only pushing 750kg add another 500kg for it to push and through your gear box and I think you'll be eating head gaskets... Rover K series engine is not that good in my opinion... V8 audi is def the way to go..hahaha cost of convrting to elise engine wouldn't be cheap either as lots of work involved.. cheaper to recon your engine and keep your car original...

I can't think you'd have much luck selling it on after either as a fiesta would be quicker.

My 2p worth (sorry)

Mark

[david hopwood]

Why go to all that trouble fitting the K series when the Briggs&Stratton quantum 3.5hp engine will drop straight in then you have the joy of owning the only recoil start Esprit in the country

[stephenbirdsall]

That's the craziest thing i've ever heard!! 118bhp esprit?? why?? elise head gaskets go on a regular basis and that's when only pushing 750kg add another 500kg for it to push and through your gear box and I think you'll be eating head gaskets... Rover K series engine is not that good in my opinion... V8 audi is def the way to go..hahaha cost of convrting to elise engine wouldn't be cheap either as lots of work involved.. cheaper to recon your engine and keep your car original...

I can't think you'd have much luck selling it on after either as a fiesta would be quicker.

My 2p worth (sorry)

Mark

Don't be sorry, that's exactly the sort of response I figured I might get and suggests that my idea is not brilliant.

[Sunbeam Fanatic]

Don't be sorry, that's exactly the sort of response I figured I might get and suggests that my idea is not brilliant.

[hilly]

Hmmmmm, perhaps I should have kept quiet about my car.....

The K-series engine is probably not a good choice for swapping into an Esprit, it is not the most torque laden engine plus you will not find a transaxle that will bolt straight on so hence you'll need an adaptor plate. If you have to do that then there are a whole bunch of other engines better suited to the Esprit, a rebuilt 9XX being top of the list.

I get at least one query a week (on various forums) about how to swap an engine into an Esprit and the first answer I usually give is :-

"If you have to ask how to go about doing it then then it is probably beyond your skill set and you shouldn't even start"

Engine swaps are WAY more complex and expensive than doing a rebuild of a 9XX in an S2/S3/turbo no matter what the Lotus parts cost is.

With a rebuild you just buy the bits that are knackered (all be it expensive parts), fit them and it should work again.

Swaps need a doner engine (and probably gearbox for a 'G'car) and then you need all the hardware to mount it which doesn't exist, it all needs to be made.

Once you are in new gearbox territory then you have other stuff like drive shafts, rear brakes (they where bolted to the now missing Citroen gearbox), gear linkage plus a load of other stuff and it adds up in cost at an alarming rate. The biggest headache is the engine ECU, unless you can re-use the unit that comes with the engine you are onto a steep learning curve unless you pay someone for a turn key unit which is big money.

For an S1/S2/S2.2 it gets even more complex due to the rear suspension layout and the lack of a upper link. Even I would probably turn down an engine swap on one of those and I have already done it once....

As always with the Esprit you are better off getting the best car you can afford, unless you like getting your hands dirty, in which case getting a basket case is a different story.

A cheap car is defo not an good investment.

If you want an Audi V8 powered car then my rates are very reasonable

Hilly

[stephenbirdsall]

Save up a bit longer and buy a car with a good or already re-built engine, it's cheaper than buying one with a busted engine and then having to re-build or replace it and will probably take the same amount of time. i.e. in order to get a car useable on the road then saving for a better car takes as long as having one on the drive not useable while you try and sort an engine.

I've discovered there are no shortcuts in Lotus ownership!

Cheers,

Steven.

Oh, I'm doing that too, I'm just trying to think of ways to improve availability of parts.

[Tony K]

I'm with Hilly -- the cost of incidentals and having to engineer stuff from scratch, plus the time involved, plus the sorting everything out of doing an engine swap are way greater than the cost and work involved in rebuilding and maintaining a 9XX. Besides, if you can do an engine swap, then maintaining a 9XX should be a cakewalk!

Don't forget, running 9XX engines by themselves (not in a car) are not difficult to come by, and buying a used running engine is less expensive and less work than a rebuild. (But if the bad engine is the one original to the car, I would hold on to it and rebuild it for the sake of keeping them together. )

Edited December 5, 2007 by Tony K

[hilly]

I am a bit wary these days about giving specific details as engine swaps seem to be flavour of the month at the moment and there won't be any original ones left if we are not careful.

I would never advise someone to do an engine swap on a good car, a non-running basket case is a different story.

But if you are looking for a basket case, any 1981-1986 'G'car will be OK (mine is a 1981 S3) an 'S'car would be an easier conversion as the rear brakes are already sorted.

Hilly

Don't forget, running 9XX engines by themselves (not in a car) are not difficult to come by

That is right, I have got one in my shed

Hilly

[tb3033]

Just a warning...

Buying the 'best' car available is not an automatic guarantee of engine reliability. Reading a good history of posts tells you that things break unpredictably and rebuild quality is a variable. My engine is broke and at the time is was arguably the best G available, but Im really not bothered.

The key is to accept what you are taking on with Esprit ownership, and that means being prepared for things to break, rather than wishfully thinking everything will be fine...

Ambrose

[mwmackenzie]

buy it and get the engine re conditioned and you'll love it, plenty of spares available off guys on here, Garry Kemp is a 910 engine God, I got most of my parts of him for my engine re build.

Would be the cheapest thing to do and if it's freshly re built then you know where you are with the car and it's going to last a bit longer... buy it and take the engine out over the winter and recondition it so you learn the inner workings of your car, you'll love it more if you have a hand in building it...

That's my next 2p worth, hope it helps you decide..

Mark

[cly_mitchell]

You are kidding, right? The best way not to become a DPO is ; a) maintain the car the way it was ment to be maintained or B) sell it before you screw it up. FYI, if you put a small block in it, not to become a DPO, you have just became a DPO.

I think he is yanking the old chain on this one though. Bird is a prankster

Cheers,

Clay

[Bibs]

To be frank and honest, if you feel that you can't afford to maintain and Esprit, don't buy one.

Either wait until you are in a financial position take take supercar ownership seriously or get some serious education in mechanical skills if you plan on doing the work yourself.

[stephenbirdsall]

To be frank and honest, if you feel that you can't afford to maintain and Esprit, don't buy one.

Either wait until you are in a financial position take take supercar ownership seriously or get some serious education in mechanical skills if you plan on doing the work yourself.

That's kindof what I'm trying to ascertain.

[mangel]

The only engine swaps I would consider are either

V8 probably of the Audi variety

Ford Cosworth, infinitely tuneable plus parts cheapish (although less so these days)

or

Summit jap wise although I'm not convinced as to the feasability of this (obvious engine candidates are skyline, subaru or mitsibushi evo)

[esprithk]

just a thought, what will happen if someone install a Ferrari V8 into an Esprit? (such as from a totalled F355)

haha....this will get alot of attention if someone actually do it

**performance + lightweight

anyway, I think a "Chevy small block 308 or 350" would be the easiest one as there are many parts available for

performance. There are many transmissions available to match it, too.

you can easily get a 400HP setup.

the Skyline engine is not a good choice because it is a long Straight 6, you will add too much weight to the rear section of the car.

**why not consider the NSX Type-R V-6 (if you can actually find one)??

it is light-weight + performance.

Edited December 6, 2007 by esprithk

[matk]

Stephen

Your original question seems to be mutating more into a "how much does it cost to run an Esprit?" question.

My 2p.................

When buying make sure you have another

[redshift]

If it really is a case of ressurecting a car with a dead engine then a custom solution is always valid. (Helped with a few 'in my yoof') But the engineering experience and resources required are considerable as Hilly has testified.

The common point in all of these conversions was to somewhat increase the performance. You really dont want to create something that is 'show and no go'.

There are a few kit car solutions around with V8s and transaxle transmissions that may be suitable?

Personally I would love to put two Kawa Z1300 blocks on a common gearbox and make a 2,6 litre V12 just for the hell of it......

Whichever way you go, rest assured that any custom solution finally costs out at least double what you estimated.

[mr.oogieboogie]

cant see the logic of having an esprit and then putting in the elise engine, then having an eliese beat you in a straight line. as i would think the esprit weights more

all the best

[tonyp]

Just buy a newish elise or a recent ish jap car if your at all worried about reliability.

Echo above on that 'K' series job - early versions totally gutless - relatively speaking.

Back in good ol' Stag days at one time the OHCV8 was reckoned to be a complete porker, & folks put in TR6 engines & manky rover V8's, essex V6's & all sorts. Complete dogs breakfast because the weights got all messed up & the exhausts leaked & broke, gear / diff ratios all wrong etc. etc. & of course totally unsellable. Then someone realised that if the lovely high revving 3l V8 was actually rebuilt properly then it was a cracking engine.

Moral of the tale - the Lotus 9xx is a belting good engine, has excellent characteristics - relatively simple - just needs standard (high performance that is) care & attention. Fix that.

Well thats what I think.

[stephenbirdsall]

Thankyou all for your replies, it has given me a lot to think about.