Rebuilding V8 engine for 500bhp - Best parts suppliers?

[GrantTuscan]

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd pick your collective brains. I'm about to have my V8 engine rebuilt after piston failure. What are the parts to use and who are the best sources / manufacturers? The idea is to get a reliable 500bhp. FYI It already has twin charge coolers, hybrid turbos & uprated waste gate capsules, twin cone air-filters, uprated larger primary injectors, ECU re-chip, race cats, twin dump-valves. (G Box has been uprated too by GTO)

I'm about to take delivery of a set of forged pistons - Omega (very highspec motorsport piston manufacturer) are making these up. It's the first set of Esprit V8 pistons they've made. I sent them an unused original to copy. Once it's on their system it'll be a lot cheaper to get more pistons made up - so there'll be another supplier option out there for everyone.

I've been talking to JAE in the USA who seem great and I'm buying an upgraded headstud kit from as well as a pair of steel head gaskets from them.

Con rods - I'd like to upgrade these, any ideas? I've started to talk to Arrow. Any other quality suppliers out there who may have made V8 rods before?

Crank - Again I'd like to get a steel crank - although the original is pretty strong to start with apparently. Anyone know of a supplier already doing a steel crank for the V8? Can I upgrade the bearings on the standard crank?

Any other parts I should be considering upgrading (or tips) for building a reliable 500bhp V8?

I have been considering getting the cam-shafts re-profiled too.

Thanks,

Grant

Edited February 25, 2008 by Grant Tuscan

[hasuSan]

(or tips) for building a reliable 500bhp V8?

It can be done....but 500hp reliable? that's the problem.

.... I will wait what others might advice.

[matk]

you need to speak to Mike Sekinger who's on here and been there seen it done it etc. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't post here.................

I'm not an expert but I'd look at upgrading the driveshafts too.

[peter_england99]

Grant,

Exciting project. Please keep us informed on your progress.

I'm sure Mike Sekinger will be able to contribute from his considerable experience on 918 tuning. Rob C (see http://www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EOwners/robc.html) was also doing a large upgrade on his Sport 350.

Regards,

Peter.

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd pick your collective brains. I'm about to have my V8 engine rebuilt after piston failure. What are the parts to use and who are the best sources / manufacturers? The idea is to get a reliable 500bhp. It already has twin charge coolers, hybrid turbos & uprated waste gate capsules, twin cone air-filters, uprated larger primary injectors, ECU re-chip. (G Box has been uprated too - GTO)

I'm about to take delivery of a set of forged pistons - Omega (very highspec motorsport piston manufacturer) are making these up. It's the first set of Esprit V8 pistons they've made. I sent them an unused original to copy. Once it's on their system it'll be a lot cheaper to get more pistons made up - so there'll be another supplier option out there for everyone.

I've been talking to JAE in the USA who seem great and I'm buying an upgraded headstud kit from as well as a pair of steel head gaskets from them.

Con rods - I'd like to upgrade these, any ideas? I've started to talk to Arrow. Any other quality suppliers out there who may have made V8 rods before?

Crank - Again I'd like to get a steel crank - although the original is pretty strong to start with apparently. Anyone know of a supplier already doing a steel crank for the V8? Can I upgrade the bearings on the standard crank?

Any other parts I should be considering upgrading (or tips) for building a reliable 500bhp V8?

I have been considering getting the cam-shafts re-profiled too.

Thanks,

Grant

Edited February 25, 2008 by peter_england99

[kyliesmith.com]

Peter bet me to it Mike and Rob C. I am sure theres many others on here too that will hopefully chim in. Robs currently got his motor out of the car and was talking about doing some nice things to it.

Post us some pics of in progress love to see this kind of stuff.

All the best with this venture.

Kylie

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All,

Great project.

IMHO, 450Hp is "a piece of cake" up to 500HP is doable. More is very difficult.

To get near 500 HP this is the general route:

for the power:

- Red-ECU

- bigger high flow turbos with proper wastegate-capsules (should hold tight up to 1 bar)

- some kind of intercooling (c/coolers or water/alc-injection)

- slightly bigger (and better) main injectors

- better pistons (= good forged weighted ones)

- high flow cats (or cats simply removed)

for reliability:

- balancing the crank

- weighting the con-rods

- better head studs (ARPs are fine)

Of course after all you have to think about upgrading the gearbox ...

Cheers

Marcus

Edited February 26, 2008 by Paula&Marcus

[mike_sekinger]

Hi Grant,

You

Edited February 26, 2008 by mike_sekinger

[Rob]

Hey Grant - is that the ex-fifth gear v8?

[Rob C]

Well Grant where does one start...My own car has taken me a long time, but it should be at Castle Combe for Club Lotus day..all being well..and the engine run in.

If I started writing about my own cars alterations sine March 06... It would take for ever.

But like Rob & Mike have said..you are on the right track... My own car is similar now to Johan's in a lot of ways as a friend for many years he's been my mentor.

My car has JE piston's...ACL big end bearings..(that are modified to suite ) ARP head studs..which are very expensive...!!!...stock injectors..as it seems larger ones are not needed.

I have Hybrid Turbo's..which are good for well over 500..using Forge waste gate actuators. My twin inter-coolers are from Top End..they are the same as Johan's... Spearco units with HKS ssbv.

Plus a 3 core radiator etc.... gearbox will arrive very soon..GTO 6 speed...Quaife..3.44diff.....max at max revs...hyperthethically 209.

That about covers some of the job but time taken is enormous...the cabin is now more of etc...?

Please get in touch with me on...damfast350@ntlworld.com be happy to chat with ya.... regards Rob C

[GrantTuscan]

Thanks for all of the responses guys. Yes Rob, this car was the old Fifth Gear project car, which has sat unloved since it went pop and they ran out of money! I bought the car about a year ago meaning to crack on with the project and get the car to do 200mph myself. Anyway been a bit busy so it's taken until now to get things moving again.

To answer a couple of questions. The cone filters are positioned next to the rear quarterlights so are seperate from the engine bay and are fed with cold air from the side air scoops. Brakes are AP 4 pots on the fronts. No quaife ATB at the moment.

Cooling is the big issue you're right Mike, it seems to be one cylinder in particular that gets especialy hot and does a piston (all be it they were cast so not as resiliant as forged) - so a new ally rad with more cores is definitely top of the list. Also having a look at how water flows through the engine, I think the flow may stagnate in the back of the engine so this need investigating. Possibly tap into the block and create a return pipe.

What would you have to do to make a GT1 spec engine? Ported flowed heads, GT1 style intake plenum, steel crank, forged pistons, con-rods, bigger turbos, chargecoolers. But what else? As I understand it, unrestricted that engine would make 600bhp.

Did Johan ever get his G50/50 box fitted to his car - has anyone got this working succesfuly?

Edited February 26, 2008 by Grant Tuscan

[matk]

Well that's an interesting bit of info. The fifth gear car was extensively discussed at the time on here. Please see this old thread, should give you some interesting ideas and info?

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=1978

[talon]

I'd love to see some pics of the car. I just watched the episode with it the other day.

Edited February 26, 2008 by talon

[mike_sekinger]

.... What would you have to do to make a GT1 spec engine? Ported flowed heads, GT1 style intake plenum, steel crank, forged pistons, con-rods, bigger turbos, chargecoolers. But what else? As I understand it, unrestricted that engine would make 600bhp.

Hi Grant,

It is very interesting that you have the 5th Gear V8-GT. You certainly have a far better idea of how to approach the project than they did.

It is also interesting that you mention the GT1 engine. I also own one of the three ex-factory GT1 cars. The GT1 engine is totally different to the road car engine. It shares nothing at all but the bare block on which the race engine modification start. Everything else is bespoke motorsport stuff. The cost of a crank alone is 15K pounds.

If you are looking for 500bhp, which incidentally would be approaching the maximum for the GTO 5-speed upgrade, you don

Edited February 26, 2008 by mike_sekinger

[th4neuk]

Watching this thread with some serious interest.

Grant,

Not sure about the cone filters. Even with the bit of airflow from the side scoops I wouldn't have thought this would give enough cold air. I would have assumed some sort of cold air RAM style airflow would be more efficient.

Hopefully once my chargecoolers are in I can go for a reliable 400 ish BHP with a mild tweak of boost.

Hmm some money to be spent for the 500 though I feel.

Mike I seem to recall you mentioning that the limit of the Lotus ECU is about reached around that level? 450ish?

I think it will be the sports cats next on mine.

Then probably some gearbox cooling.

Finally the turbos.

Finger crossed that should be safe for 450.

Will see if that is enough.

Cheers

Edited February 27, 2008 by th4neuk

[BusaNostra]

Grant

Two of these will hit 500 http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/T28HYBRIDT04B.jpg

Two of these will hit 600 http://www.mjmturbos.com/gtrs28.HTM

Anything bigger...no room

Edited February 27, 2008 by BusaNostra

[neal]

What happened to GTO's website?

http://www.gtoengineering.co.uk/

Is the GTO 6 speed a dog or syncho box? Does the GTO 5 speed have strengthed internals (e.g. the primary shaft) or just a change in the 1st and 2nd ratios?

Edited February 27, 2008 by neal

[mike_sekinger]

What happened to GTO's website?

http://www.gtoengineering.co.uk/

Is the GTO 6 speed a dog or syncho box? Does the GTO 5 speed have strengthed internals (e.g. the primary shaft) or just a change in the 1st and 2nd ratios?

The GTO 5-speed has strengthened primary shaft etc. THe 1st is straight-cut..... the 6-speed is a straight cut dog box. Great for the track, but can be tricky for town stop/go driving.

Cheers,

Mike S

..... Mike I seem to recall you mentioning that the limit of the Lotus ECU is about reached around that level? 450ish?

The ECU on Grants car has been tweaked by Superchips. I have no idea what they have done to the code, but if it is anything like other

[GrantTuscan]

Yes Superchips had a couple of goes at tweaking the ECU - the code is extremely difficult to crack. They ended up putting one of Johan's chips in and then playing around with the signal from the map sensor - I think one of the problems they initially encountered was that it was going very rich / dumping fuel after a certain level of boost. I think ultimately they had it running at about 466BHP @ 6977RPM (but the clutch was slipping during the power run on the dyno - so there was probably more than 466BHP). And Torque was a bit disappointing at 397 lb/ft at 5323RPM.

The turbos were re-built / hybrid(ed) buy Owen Developments - really good people, Lee Owen did all of Peter Solberg's WRC turbo builds at one point. They also did the development work for Mitsubishi on the Evo FQ400.

Mike - do you know who manufactured the crank and rods for the GT1 engine? I know the team did the first race on a standard road crank as the race one wasn't ready in time. It survived so they must be reasonably strong.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Grant Tuscan

[mike_sekinger]

....Mike - do you know who manufactured the crank and rods for the GT1 engine? I know the team did the first race on a standard road crank as the race one wasn't ready in time. It survived so they must be reasonably strong.

Hi Grant,

Yes, the Johan chipset is known for running on the rich side. Did they also source the injectors from Johan or somewhere else. I know that Johan favours 310cc/min primaries, which are probably a little on the large side for this application.

As you say, Owen Developments have an excellent reputation. Do you know what they did to the turbos? It would be very interesting to establish what they did regarding housings and internals.

As far as the crank and conrods are concerned, I

Edited February 27, 2008 by mike_sekinger

[neal]

Yes Superchips had a couple of goes at tweaking the ECU - the code is extremely difficult to crack. They ended up putting one of Johan's chips in and then playing around with the signal from the map sensor - I think one of the problems they initially encountered was that it was going very rich / dumping fuel after a certain level of boost. I think ultimately they had it running at about 466BHP @ 6977RPM (but the clutch was slipping during the power run on the dyno - so there was probably more than 466BHP). And Torque was a bit disappointing at 397 lb/ft at 5323RPM.

When I was toying with the idea of adding water injection I considered this problem of the Lotus ECM dumping fuel under high load. It's helpful as a safety measure when the engine isn't chargecooled but becomes a problem when it is. An idea which I had was to fit smaller secondaries (especially if combined with larger primaries) to even the a/f out across the range or fit a valve into the fuel line running to the existing secondaries to reduce the fuel pressure at the injector. But I didn't investigate it further...

[gt1]

do you know who manufactured the crank and rods for the GT1 engine?

Pankl I believe..

[mamovaka]

you can get the stock engine up to 450 and still be ok.. isn't that what most of you guys have done w/ out touching engine internals?

[mike_sekinger]

Update on conrods:

After speaking to Jeff Robinson at JAE in the US, they can supply Carrillo con rods for the 918 engine. I do not know if these are any stronger than the standard forged steel ones. He is in the process of confirming the price. They are also about to release some stronger conrod rod bearings, so they may also be of interest.

There are also some other parts that JAE have for the 918 (e.g. silicone boost and radiator hoses, pistons, ARP head studs etc).

JAE Parts website USA

Cheers,

Mike S

EDIT: Correction, these con rods are SAENZ and not CARRILLO !

Edited March 5, 2008 by mike_sekinger

[kyliesmith.com]

you can get the stock engine up to 450 and still be ok.. isn't that what most of you guys have done w/ out touching engine internals?

Well my car had installed 2 yrs ago PUK alloy actuators 0.9 bar boost, Blueflame straight cut pipes with decatted mufflers, red race chip which is estimated 400-450 in that region. I am totally paranoid about these upgrades and really dont know the inside condition of the turbos etc or how the tranny is holding up not to mention the engine. Touch wood everything is running fine for now and really just being careful how I drive it. Its hard not to put the foot down when theres all that power to boot, its hansomly quick I havent had it dynoed yet but plan on doing so one day to get some figures.

Wish list would be forged pistons and those nice high flow turbos that PUK sell. See how how many paintings I sell this year!!

My service agent who did a similar mod to a 97V8 said my car felt very similar in performance which feels like a bit over 400bhp.

As everyone says on here dont get too carried away unless your planning on doing something with the box.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi Kylie,

Yes, with 0.9 bar boost you will end up around 410 HP on a not hot day ...

BTW, I personally hate dynos (and the Esprit also hates them). Its a real pain for the car and I know you won't be happy to see your pride and joy getting tortured ... additionally the Esprit V8 suffers from poor cooling and too hot intake MAT-temps when on a dyno resulting in too low figures, IMHO.

Dont you have access to something different, like a G-tech Pro RR performance meter, for example. Its a very nice and smart device. When you got used to it you will be able to tell exactly what your car is doing performance wise.

You may have a look at http://www.gtechpro.com/rr.html

I personally love this one

Cheers

Marcus

Edited March 6, 2008 by Paula&Marcus
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