Best esprit brakes ?

[jackal2513]

did some searching on this site

it would seem that the sport300 brakes (despite having pistons that tend to corrode over time) are pretty powerful and do not suffer fade on the track. Although they aren't made anymore, would that make them amongsth the best esprit brakes ever ?

I noted a comment on LEW that the sport350 AP brakes so in fact suffer fade on track so maybe they aren't as good as the old S300/Lotus Carlton brakes ?

cheers

R

[Vulcan Grey]

The X180-R & Sport 300 are the best, put on by Lotus.

The X180-R is good for a full day of fade free performance.

Their pistons are steel and do corrode.

The relative sizing in back are much bigger (caliper wise) than the later V8 AP and Brembo setup.

The lack of a floating rotor could be an issue over time, as the aluminum hats get stretched by the expanding rotor bolts.

I'm actually going with this setup at a fraction of the cost of the X180-R/Sport 300 setup...

Here is my Lotus original rotor ontop of my new rotor

Front Calipers areBrembo Racing monobloc Aluminum with 4 vented titanium pistons (directionally sized).

Front rotors are 328x35mm floating.

Rear calipers are Brembo Racing bolted aluminum assembly with 4 vented titanium pistons (also directional).

Rear rotors are 313x25.4mm fixed.

Then I have parking calipers, either Wilwood or Brembo Lotus calipers.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Vulcan Grey

[th4neuk]

I'm quite impressed by my Hi-spec monster 6 kit (PNM one). I haven't had it on track yet but they seem up to spirited road use.

I believe John has this set up on his V8 race car and is quite happy.

Cheers

[Jonathan]

I think the S300 has a larger frictional / clamping surface than the S350, specific cooling ducts and less mass to stop. I really want to put my S350 calipers on the front and move the front brembos to the rear but I think the ABS will be on overtime with that on the road, good for clawing back high speed but that's about all IMO.

[jackal2513]

ok cheers guys

so the S300 can't be improved upon very easily without going to some extravagant 6 pot setup

probably worth keeping it stock then and replacing teh pistons with items that don't corrode so easily

are the sport 300 disks readily available ? Or correct sized alternatives ?

[Jonathan]

Oops brake thread again. Yes it can be improved by using more agressive pads, larger rotors and or using calipers with larger pad area / clamping force. Adding more pistons to the caliper is only 1 way if many to improve braking - better tyres are also overlooked.

[jackal2513]

ok, thanks... for sure, all brakes can be improved but I guess my point is that given the comments on this thread, it doesn't sound like it would be necessary to upgarde the S300 from its stock brakes. Sounds like they are very good and more than up to the job of general road use.

also, it sounds as if changing S300 brakes over to S350 brakes would be just a sideways move rather than an upgrade

Edited December 28, 2008 by jackal2513

[Vulcan Grey]

Changing a S300 to the S350/2000+ V8 AP+Brembo setup would be a step backwards! by far!

The V8's have horribly undersized rear calipers. So it's not all about rotor size. The X180-R/S300 utilize much more of the rear braking system, and as far as I can tell, without a change to brake distribution or proportioning.

The Sport 300 and X180-R use 327mm fronts and 280mm rear rotors, while the S50 has 320 F & R.

I've driven the X180-R (same as Sport 300 as far as brakes) on street and track with Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000, and there is no match for that thing!

I've also driven the Sport 350, and a 2003 V8. The only thing better on the V8 is the Kelsey Hayes ABS system. The Sport300's GM Powermaster ABS is crap, my friend often disables his on the X180-R.

My friend who owns the X180-R, and is a much better driver than I am, usually waits to brake from ~130mph, when most cars are just turning in. The stopping power of the AP Racing brakes on the Sport 300 is massive. And I have never seen any indication of fade with the Ferodo pads and Castrol SRF fluid.

Here are the rear brakes on an X180-R/Sport 300

Here are the fronts

They aren't that impressive compared to today's tech of titanium pistons, floating rotors, carbon ceramic... But they really work.

I'm not sure about the AP disk availability or price... I'm guessing very expensive and difficult... The caliper rebuild parts are available, including stainless pistons. Proper care, rebuild and replacement of fluids should help some.

Of course my brakes came with free rotors and pads.... so I haven't looked into that for the X180-R AP's for a while.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Vulcan Grey

[esprits4de]

Hmmm, pads! The key to breaking. I use the Ferodo DS1-11 front and FDS rear ( full S350 calipper setup ). The more I use them ( the hotter they get ) the less fading I get. They have an immense initial bite, the ABS always goes off 1.5 sec after triggering the brakes but once they got temperature they just rip the tarmac apart.....

Now serious, the pads are the key, if the disks resist the stress.

[cweeden]

I have upgraded the Sport 350 brakes with larger front disks while retaining the standard calipers by using spacers to mount them further out. I moved to braided hoses and SRF fluid with Pagid Orange pads up front and Ferodo DS2500 at the rear. I fitted a set of AP 343mm x 32mm discs which required new mounting bells. They had their test at the Nurburgring in November. The bite and feel are great, the tyres can be heard complaining without locking and without triggering the ABS. I do find the ABS intrusive however on uneven surfaces and would really love to be able to switch it on and off. I wanted Pagid Black pads but couldn't get them in time. The Orange worked just fine with no fade after two consecutive laps of good use. I am extremely pleased with the results and they fill the wheel nicely but there is still plenty of room however I suspect 355mm discs would be too much and upset the balance.

cheers

-Chris

[Jonathan]

Did you ever find any significant heat transfer to the wheels ?

[cweeden]

I never really checked for heat transfer to the wheels to be honest. I have touched them gingerly on occasion and they are warm/hot but seemed to be in keeping with what you might expect.

I have sampled several different setups on various Esprits. My first was a beautiful 87 Turbo HC which I miss now. Its brakes were shocking but improved quite considerably with SRF fluid, braided hoses and Mintex 1144 pads. Then I moved to a 2000 MY V8 GT with the Brembo setup the ABS was always too keen to step in. I ran some Ferodo DS3000 pads in this for a short while and they were awful. I managed about a 3rd of a lap of the Ring at pace before they judder was unbearable. The standard Sport350 was much better as you would expect and although the ABS was better it was still too eager on uneven surfaces. They did fade too at Bedford but I suspect the fluid was the problem. I doubt it had been replaced for over 5 years and boiled. With the current upgrade the feel is good and you can really lean on them before the ABS cuts in on a smooth road, as before it still upsets things on an uneven road. I am certain it reduces braking capability rather than improve it. If I could somehow switch it on and off at will I think this would be as close to nirvana for me as I can imagine. For the first time I can attack a track rather than nanny the brakes round each lap.

cheers

-Chris

[Jonathan]

Just wire a switchable fuse into the ABS system then into the drivers area - job done ?

[cweeden]

Its not so simple on the V8s. The ABS management system feeds the ECU with general wheel speed data plus some other bits so it is needed in some capacity.

cheers

-Chris