Radiator leaking, advice please

[Gasman GT3]

Ok, went out for a spin this morning and after a short while the low water level light came on, "oh" I thought " that bloody sensor is duff again" However it wasn't when I got home I noticed steam coming from the front. On closer inspection I could see water dripping from the red around the middle fan. So it looks like the rad is leaking.

So here comes the questions before I set about it with the spanners.

1. Can you drop just the main radiator without removing the bumper and valance (my car is a GT3 with no air con)?

2. is it worth trying to get it repaired or better with a new one?

I have seen other threads where 40hr 2 man jobs are talked about, is this true just for doing the rad?

The service book offers little help, and I am worried about removing the bumper and valance as they have not long been repainted but on the upside that should mean little corrosion on the bolts.

Any advice or instructions much appreciated.

If it is a full strip job I may do the rad hoses in silicone at the same time and upgrade all bolts to stainless. One last thing I have looked on SJ's site and their own rad is

[SE Owner :-D]

I reckon you ought to get the aluminium one from

Click

It's got to be do-able and you seem handy enough with spanners.

What do you think cause is/was?

Rog

[trackmagic]

My experience between the two are 1.) Aluminum is far lighter but harder to repair. 2.) Brass/copper ,better heat transfer, heavier but easier to repair. Which ever you decide (repair/replace) you will see a benefit. Over time the stock rad is going to accumulate junk making it less efficient. Also, a really good rad shop might be able to offer an upgrade for your stock core.

While you are there check out your coolant expansion tank. The steel ones will rust and the scale ends up in your rad tanks or sitting in the engine block. If an aluminum one is available that would be a worthwhile upgrade.

Good luck,

Jeff

Edited January 31, 2009 by trackmagic

[tinywillyuk]

In answer to 1), on an S4 all you have to do is take off the undertrays, take out the oil cooler ducts, get the oil coolers out the way (and if youre unlucky like me, destroy them in the process thanks to rust), fog lights and remove a few ancilliaries (fan electrics etc) and then lower the whole assembly down on a trolley jack to the floor.

Most of the front stays exactly where it is.

It is achievable but I guess the ease of the work depends on the amount of corrosion and any vehicle specific quirks - for example my oil coolers sandwiched the rad duct where the service notes say that shouldn't be the case.

[mr.oogieboogie]

yes its very do-able, even by yourself (did it last year). worst part is putting it back in and trying to bolt it up and putting the bottom rad hose on. a recore rad cost me just less than

[Gasman GT3]

Been underneath this afternoon with a torch to look at where the leak is comong from, which got bigger while I was watching. It seems to be coming from the top corner on the drivers side. The son in law is coming round tomorrow and we are going to try and get it out.

Thanks for the advice it's most encouraging. I did look at the PUK ally rad but at 1100 Euro's it's a bit steep. The son in law knows a rad place in Wolves who depending on the condition may be able to repair it or recore it.

I think while the undertray is down I will see what condition the other stuff under there is in and do a bit of a renovation. I know JAE in the US do silicone hose kits but does anyone in the UK?

[matk]

I'm not a "Stephens" man, but in all the previous threads I've seen on this, the probs were usually regarding moving the oil coolers. I think Jonathon had a good way of doing this, but I can't find it on his web site. Might be worth dropping him a PM unless of course he pops up in this thread anyway.

[Gasman GT3]

Thanks Matt, I'll give him a PM. He usually is a font for all things GT3.

[tinywillyuk]

Silly thought - on mine, at the top on the drivers side is the bleed plug. Have you checked its tight? When it leaks it makes the whole radiator look bust.

[rogerch]

Isn't that the top hose side, the bleed screw is on the passenger side assuming not LHD, but yes I would be checking the hose before pulling the radiator out. and that alloy elbow, mine was close to going on inspection.

[tinywillyuk]

Spot on Roger. Sorry - was picturing it the way I usually look at it - flat on my back staring up at it - and got it the wrong way round.

[Gasman GT3]

Well, It turned out to be the rad I think you could say it's shagged. Several skined knuckles later and several snapped bolts it's out, took just over 4 1/2 hours start to finish. Looking at the oil coolers they could do with a refurb as well as the joints look very corroded. I will post pics of the rad later. Just making a list now of all the bits to buy to put back together again. Best tip was unbolting the oil coolers, however the bolts did shear off.

[Jonathan]

I will reply asap but I'm currently afk on my iPhone feeling rather under the weather after trying to keep up with the winos last night :D

[Gasman GT3]

No worries mate, rad is out now, just making a list of bits I need. 1 question you might be able to answer, in getting the rad out I tried to undo the oil cooler mounting bolts (ones that go through the top from the Lugage compartment) however they sheared off. Problem is the pipe unions on the oil coolers are fairly corroded, and I'm sure if I try to get them off they will disintegrate. If this happens can you put new unions on the pipes as new ones are hideously expensive? Alternatly is there a better option on oil coolers and pipes than the Lotus items?

[tinywillyuk]

I suffered from the same problem. The oil coolers sheared in the steel pipe joints purely down to corrosion and the mix of alu and steel.

However a couple of thoughts. Alu contracts more than steel in the cold - so chill them before you attempt to undo - not hard in the UK right now. Two big, long spanners and some form of bracing to make sure you get good circular action when undoing is helpful.

Worst case, if they shear, as mine did, you can dissolve the alu from inside the steel pipe connectors with over the counter chemicals. Worked a charm! The stock coolers are Setrab parts which have a reasonable reputation I believe. With suitable precautions when you reassemble you should never have a problem again if you stick with them.

[Jonathan]

Good stuff - it's a tricky job but possible.

WIth the oil coolers, just one of those things - my GT3 had both of them go about 6 months before I bought it so fortunaly they were OK. You should be able to extract the reminants of the bolt if you leave it to un-seize for a while - dunno much else about them tbh

As for the unions - we used to have a hydraulics call out company to re-make our hose ends but I'm not sure how they can re-do your ones whilst on the car, have a look in the yellow pages or something and ask around, you should be able to get them re-done in situ.

Best of luck !

Oh when putting the rad back in leave the cowling to radiator bracket bolts slack or you might not be able to get the hoses back on !

I got my new rad from Geoff at esprit engineering exchange item - with all the trimmings , new fans, now cowling and stainless brackets - worth the money if you ask me !

[Gasman GT3]

Thanks for the advice Jon & Simon. A mate works for a company that has JCB's so he says he should be able to sort the hoses. having now got the fan housing off the rad looks totally shot, and I think an exchange is the best bet. I am going to get all the bits this week and do it next weekend weather permitting. (I have never bin so cold doing a job as yesterday but at least it was dry)

Here is a pic of the rad when it came out.

[tinywillyuk]

Nice job! Very satisfying when it comes out. Mine was in similar condition to yours and was 10 years old when I did it. Only difference for me was a big hole caused by the Seagull that had smashed through it..

[fjmuurling]

Simon what chemicals did you use for dissolving the aluminium piece inside the coupling ??

Freek

[Jonathan]

Makes you wonder how it was cooling the water doesn't it ?

[fjmuurling]

I recently bought two oilcoolers from SJSportscars (they were 149 pounds each excl VAT) as I destroyed mine in an attempt to remove them. My car is a 1990 SE but I believe the GT3 uses the same oilcoolers.

Freek

[tinywillyuk]

Freek - I used sodium hydroxide solution. Very effective and quite good fun to watch. Also gets very hot in the process. You might need to refresh the solution to keep it strong.

Also safe and wont effect rubber, copper, brass and steel.

[fjmuurling]

Simon thx for the answer, luckily there is only one small piece of aluminium remaining in one of the steel couplings.

Freek

[mr.oogieboogie]

getting it out is the easy bit. for the bottom hose i used a grinder and ground small a section of the rad undertray away at the side so i could get the bottom hose clip as on mine it was a bugger, hope it goes better for you.

[Gasman GT3]

Was thinking the same thing Peter, might even make a removable section screwed to the bottom of the undertray, because as you say it's going to be a right bugger to get back on otherwise.