Will not start . .

[CBrownstead]

I hate it, my wife is starting to call this the car that always breaks . . .ha ha . . . I have a ton of old cars and this one is definately the most trouble . . .but it also one of the most fun . . so i guess it evens out . . .

this problem started months ago . . .driving along, and a pop noise . . .then dead, would crank and crank but acted like no fuel. I had been having issues with a relay poping on and off on and off and the idle surging, replaced all the relays . . .nothing. Then finally that day it just died. I could let it sit a second and it would turn over like 5 times and then die, the more i tried the fewer times it would turn over. Then finally it would just crank and nothing . . .

so a long 3 month ordeal to find a fuel pump, old bosch unit, super expensive, only a few cars ever used them, typical lotus part choice . . .finally steve got me one. Put it on tonight . . .same problem

Now, I can turn the key, hear the pump pressurize . . .turn to start and i get a few revs like 10 or 20 and then it dies, then i try the key again and this time i get like half the revs i got before and then stop. then i turn the key again and nothing. It is like it is starving for fuel. It is the 88 turbo esprit, there is a primary pump, secondary pump only used under boost and then a accumulator or something, i am wondering if this is bad. I have a new fuel filter, thought about trying that, typical lotus engineers they put the fuel filter above the 2 pumps, nice the one thing that is a wearable and they make it the hardest to get at to change . .brilliant . . .

any suggestions on what else could be the issue? As always turn to this site for help, much better than the dealer . . .thanks

[fjmuurling]

Hi Chris,

I just looked in the manual but the 2 pumps are connected in series and both need to be running. After the secondary fuel pump there is the accumulator which dampens out pressure pulses in the fuel line and also takes care of keeping the fuel system pressurized if the engine is stopped.

Are you sure your two pumps are running ??

Freek

[CBrownstead]

I am not sure they are both running, and it is starting to look like maybe that is the issue, I am thinking of replacing the second pump just in case, a lotus guy told me the secondary pump only runs while under boost, but in reading the manuals it looks like they run all the time. So I am going to see what I can do tomorrow. The secondary pump is not as expensive or hard to find. I may order one for the heck of it, this is so frustrating . . .

I have studied the workshop manuals and have some ideas . . .

1. if both pumps run all the time maybe it is the secondary pump, the manual does not really specify, it just says that the pumps supply more than enough fuel for the engine. I thought maybe the secondary pump only runs when under boost, i have not tested or tried replacing this pump.

2. Since the engine is in cold mode, i thought maybe the cold start injector is stuck open or something, which would not allow fuel pressure to build sufficiently.

3. The warm up regulator supplies pressure to the fuel pressure module in the K-jetronic system, which I thought may be failed which would keep the motor from starting.

Since the motor is cold, it limits somewhat the things that could be causing the no start. But there are so many parts involved, I am trying to hit the obvious or cheap items first. Any relay that could be suspect I would like to change, I have changed all the SPDT relays in the boot. Really at a loss. I would like to order the parts, rear wing and wheel arch parts which I included in the quote, just need to find out what shipping and stuff would cost. thanks

Edited March 25, 2009 by CBrownstead

[lotus4s]

Chris,

Tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full...

[CBrownstead]

I just ordered a secondary pump . . . if i dont need it now, i will need it some day . . . i am replacing parts, i need to get a freescan setup going . . . if this doesnt do it, i will be really stumped . . .

sorry i cleared my messages . . . .

[CBrownstead]

Well I have replaced both the primary and secondary fuel pumps, and the problem persists . . .the car will start, idle for about 5 seconds and then die. I do hear a couple relays click before it dies. I have replaced all relays, fuel filter, and both fuel pumps. I noticed tonight that there was a hairline crack in my inertial fuel cut off switch. So I did the following in my trouble shooting procedure, after looking through the manual.

I thought maybe the cold start injector was not working, or leaking, thereby not allowing for the build up of enough fuel pressure. I disconnected it, and the motor would not start at all, reconnected it and it would start and then die. This led me to believe that the cold start system is working. I guess the auxiliary air control valve could still be bad, but i just dont see that keeping the car from idling at all.

So I then decided to look harder into the inertia switch . . .in the manual i see that the switch is not involved when the car is cranking to start . . . so I manually tripped the switch, pulled the plunger up and I could see the red section fully extended. The symptoms did not change, so basically the intertia switch is not affecting the symptoms at all, this makes me think maybe the switch is bad and after starting the ECU checks the status or some circuit checks the status of the switch and then cuts off the fuel pumps .. . anyone know if this is the case on a 1988 turbo? My theory is that by manually tripping the inertia switch, the motor should not even start, but I manual trip it, turn the key, i still hear the pumps run to create pressure at first, then crank and fire for about 6 seconds then die. I put the plunger down and the same sequence happens, so I am thinking that it is in an always tripped mode, the crack in the case must be causing some issue inside. It is a cheap part and I have already ordered one. I have seen posts for shorting this switch and taking it out of the circuit . . .but what do people think? could this be the cause of my no idle problem?

[CBrownstead]

replaced the secondary pump, didnt do it, so i started working through the system with the manual, not the warm up regulator or injectors because the car will not start when i disconnect these, oddly enough the car will act exactly the same whether i have the inertial fuel pump cutout switch tripped or not . . . shouldnt the cutout keep ANY fuel from getting to the motor? What I have seen is I start the car, it idles for just a few seconds and then I hear the fuel pump relays click and the motor dies, something is shutting them off . . .strange . . .

[CBrownstead]

Shorted the fuel pump inertia switch . . .no help, car still will not idle. I have looked over the service manuals, and it seems like it is either the RPM Relay or the Fuel Enrichment Module, both I have been informed, are NOT AVAILABLE and obsolete . . . and the dealer is offering no help at all. I think my only option may be to scrap the whole ridiculous nightmare Lotus calls their safety system for the fuel pumps and just install a couple pump switches to turn the pumps on and off, I hope this will work. Seeing that the modules are not available anymore, and these modules basically tell the fuel pumps to run when they get a signal from the coil . . . I would have to build one . . . easier just to install some switches or relays or something hooked to the ignition . . .oh . .p.s. the overspeed module is also not available any more . . . nice.

[CBrownstead]

Just for any future guys that may have the issue on an 88 with Bosch K Jetronic . . . the no start issue narrowed down to a faulty RPM Relay, big sucker, now I have a problem with the off throttle fuel by pass system, but the car does run . . .that is a plus.

[CBrownstead]

fixed it . . .after studying the manual for quite some time, i knew that cold idle was the diagram to check, then just started checking components one at a time, until finally I replaced the RPM relay and it worked.

[mr.oogieboogie]

glad you found it sounds a bugger to pin down