Tearing out ABS

[karmavore]

I'm sure this has been discussed in many disperate threads, but...

I'm finally at the point where I'd like to consider removing the ABS, not just disabling it.

I cannot stand the lack of pedal feel and that damn pump kicking in every 20 seconds. It really diminishes my confidence when driving.

So: is there a defined path, not matter how expensive, to removing all the BS that sits between the pedal and my big bad calipers?

[troutrou]

As per this thread, whch is hte one just before yours (shame on you for not reading it !...)

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/index.php/topic/37512-these-brakes-are-awful-pls-help-with-video/

... the servo and master cylindrer from a Toyota MR2 fit just fine... and I can't see these things cost that much money in the scrappies !

Not sure if the MR2 was marketed in the USA (they probably all had ABS anyway over there, so not much help...), but you could always import one from the UK.

No idea what generation of MR2 it is though, you will have to ask him. Maybe they all had the same parts in this regards.

Would be nice to make an illustrated HowTo, if you decide to do it, as I think many people might be tempted !

Personnaly I like both the S4s and early SE, but the lack of ABS on the latter is a strong point that makes me favor this model...

[Vulcan Grey]

Some people revert back to the 89SE non-abs system, BUT.... the Bendix master cylinder is now Obsolete as far as I know...

You might need to find a suitable replacement master cylinder!

I once found a crapload of different Bendix masters on Amazon.com, and you can search by picture. Might be able to find a similar one that way...?

[Jonathan]

Just rip it all out and design a normal master cylinder system like in the Mclaren F1 hehe

If you tandem the master cylinder you'll have enough umph to do this without a servo - thats my next step when the ABS goes tits up

I disabled ABS on mine and have had a few 'BRAKE' scenarios, once you get your head around it I dont think ABS is really that much of an issue - cept on ice mebbe, but I dont drive on ice.

[karmavore]

Its the not ABS, per se, its the lack of feel and the damn pedal dropping out form under my foot on occasion. Perhaps I don't understand the forces at work.

Is the V8 setup not retrofit-able?

As per this thread, whch is hte one just before yours (shame on you for not reading it !...)

No, I read it. Got confused. Posted this topic.

[Advantage]

Page 2 of this clicky and some pictures to look at:

[karmavore]

Well hello there, sexy! Thanks GKB

[Richard123]

Interesting all the flack this brake system gets.

Does anybody know if the brake system was ok when the cars were new? Are the complaints just about cars that need pressure switches, master cyclinders and accumulators replaced? Or is the application on a Lotus really that bad?

I had a similar system (I think, same accumulator) in a 1992 Jaguar XJS and it had strong brakes with good feel. The system lasted almost 300k before I sold the car, so they can be reliable.

That said, the accumulator is shot on my S4 at 50k.......pump runs every time I press the brake pedal.

[karmavore]

Good question Richard... I wonder what the reviews said in the Auto press back in the day.

My car just had a serious going over and the accumulator is only a few years old and the feel is shit.

Lucas.

[lotus4s]

The system is not that bad when everything is working properly. The worst thing is the abs tends to engage a little too early in instances where it's not actually needed. But normal braking and pedal feel can be pretty good.

The only thing that concerns me is what consequences there may be with the insurance company if there is an accident and the abs system has been eliminated. Have any of you guys asked about this?

Personally I'd love to retrofit a better braking system in my S4s but not sure if the risk is worth the reward...

[karmavore]

Whats the risk in upgrading to a later system?

[lotus4s]

Lucas,

I was refering to the possible risk of deleting the ABS system but upgrading to a later ABS system is going to be extremely expensive and extremely complicated and not something I'd ever be interested in doing. Going to a non-ABS system is much more practical.

I spoke with Jeff at JAE and he says that several people have retrofitted the early V8 master cylinder and booster setup with success which is a fairly easy swap but still no ABS.

FWIW, I asked my insurance company (Grundy) about eliminating the ABS or SIR (airbag) systems and they said "no problem".

Edited October 13, 2010 by lotus4s

[karmavore]

Jim:

They really said NO PROBLEM? Wow... What's in it from them. I have got to loose Allstate. My airbag is already gone.

Also, I don't understand why the early V8 master forces the elimination ABS?

[Rich H]

I would imagine it's the electrics that cause the problem

[Jonathan]

When it works there is no problem - they feel wooden, mine feel OK, no complaints here before and after the brake setup I did.

The issue was they are complex and I dont know of many cars that use a pressurised system anymore - most use the old vacuum assist, tried and tested.

ABS is very intrusive, when the S350 calieprs went on the ABS came on almost right away - made stopping kinda hard so I knocked the ABS off, after that we done some serious braking at CAT and decided that it was quite good.

When mine packs up for waht ever reason I'll be going to the twin master cylinder setup - a well setup system is exquisite feel to it and waves of control

[ramjet]

This is weird. I see lots of posts regarding this.

I was getting bubbles in the back reservoir of my S4. Got myself a test gauge and went through the tests on the system. Accumulator was leaking and bleeding back into the return and causing the bubbling. New accumulator - fixed. I also discovered during the testing that my pressure switch does not bring the system up to full pressure. I completely changed the fluid and followed the manual bleeding procedure for the brakes as per the Lotus manual I have for the brake system. Other than the difficulty of getting to the two bleed valves on the master cylinder, it was easy. No more difficult than any other car I have done. And there have been a few.

Now, and this was even before I taught myself to heel and toe in the car, I have never had the brakes scare me. I consider them to be far superior to the Holden Commodore I used to drive or the 240 Volvo Estate I had before that.

I have braked really heavily when I have taken friends for a blast (scared them as I was leaving it so late) and have not had the ABS intrude, and yes, the ABS does work as I have straight line tested it and it was fine. I actually expected it to come in sooner than it did.

Maybe I'm just lucky with the car only having done 34,000kms so everything is still fairly new by comparison to others.

Michael

ps For anyone else reading this thread, if you want to avoid what has happened with GKP's car with the bonnet strut, undo it where it attaches to the bracket on the air vent intake and flip it over to the other side of the bracket and do it back up. I saw this was going to happen on mine and flipped it over. Changes the cantilever load on the bracket and puts the main load down through the side of the vent and not through the front face which will eventually fail ala GKP.

Edited October 13, 2010 by ramjet

[Advantage]

My car is just dandy, thanks very much. The car featured in those pictures belongs to another Forum member, Scott (Crescent Fresh).

[ramjet]

Oops.