oil cooler relocation

[docf]

about a month back I hit a giant pothole which damaged the oil cooler lines up front and almost resulted in my car bleeding to death on the side of the road. So i did some thinking and I am changing the dual corner setup (95 S4) to a single fan powere oil cooler mounted in the left rear quarter panel and fed fresh air via the unused cooling duct. This should also shave a couple of pounds off the car since you are cutting out 20 feet of pluimbing and all of the extra oil that is needed to fill that plumbing. Any thoughts here? Sounds fairly straight forward hoping someone has done something similar and can give me some pointers as to what size cooler i can fit back there. It just seems to me that it is a real waste to have to move oil all the way to the front of the car to cool it when there is so much unused real estate out back. Gonna flip through the summit catalog and find a suitable cooler.. will take plenty of pics one the project is under way.

[Artie]

about a month back I hit a giant pothole which damaged the oil cooler lines up front and almost resulted in my car bleeding to death on the side of the road.  So i did some thinking and I am changing the dual corner setup (95 S4) to a single fan powere oil cooler mounted in the left rear quarter panel and fed fresh air via the unused cooling duct.  This should also shave a couple of pounds off the car since you are cutting out 20 feet of pluimbing and all of the extra oil that is needed to fill that plumbing.  Any thoughts here?  Sounds fairly straight forward hoping someone has done something similar and can give me some pointers as to what size cooler i can fit back there.  It just seems to me that it is a real waste to have to move oil all the way to the front of the car to cool it when there is so much unused real estate out back.  Gonna flip through the summit catalog and find a suitable cooler.. will take plenty of pics one the project is under way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if anyone's done it yet but is a sound and logical relocation project. I plan on doing that very thing when I add a chargecooler to my 89 turbo, but I will locate my heat exchanger for the chargecooler back there(that's the prelim plan right now). Only concern you need to attend to is some sort of alarm or light to let you know if your fan fails.

Artie

[f1karting]

I have been considering the elimination of the OC actually.. I have gotten feedback that seems to indicate that, these days, the oils are so good, that unless you have serious oil overheating issues, for road use, you just dont need an OC anymore.

Combine that with our frequent oil change interval, and I could believe that modern oils are up to the task.

My reasoning for originally wanting to move the OC was because of the length of hose, energy loss thru the system, potential for air entrapment in the system and oil pressure issues, difficulty in purging old oil, and that there may be potential for debris to settle in the OC.

J

[f1karting]

Not sure if anyone's done it yet but is a sound and logical relocation project.  I plan on doing that very thing when I add a chargecooler to my 89 turbo, but I will locate my heat exchanger for the chargecooler back there(that's the prelim plan right now).  Only concern you need to attend to is some sort of alarm or light to let you know if your fan fails.

Artie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Artie.. check this CC out!

http://www.precisionturbo.net/

[esprithk]

Artie.. check this CC out!

http://www.precisionturbo.net/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cool! this may be a good one to replace the original charge cooler?

[Artie]

cool! this may be a good one to replace the original charge cooler?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, thanks for the tip, I actually looked at these coolers early in the quest. The main problem is fabrication. I can't weld aluminum and since I am cheap and don't want to pay someone to reengineer the system, I figured i'd buy a used CC somewhere and I already have a heat exchanger and electric water pump. I haven't ruled this type of cooler out though I could still cut the inlet charge pipe where is says "turbo" and just have a shorter CC made like this with an inlet and outlet in line. However, I did want to find a CC plenum nozzle to plenum also so I could add the later ECU for the 2 additional injectors and do the 6 red race chip too. This is all still being decided though as parts of this sort are a little difficult to source readily!

Art

[f1karting]

Yeah,  thanks for the tip, I actually looked at these coolers early in the quest.  The main problem is fabrication.  I can't weld aluminum and since I am cheap and don't want to pay someone to reengineer the system, I figured i'd buy a used CC somewhere and I already have a heat exchanger and electric water pump.  I haven't ruled this type of cooler out though I could still cut the inlet charge pipe where is says "turbo" and just have a shorter CC made like this with an inlet and outlet in line.  However, I did want to find  a CC plenum nozzle to plenum also so I could add the later ECU for the 2 additional injectors and do the 6 red race chip too.  This is all still being decided though as parts of this sort are a little difficult to source readily!

Art

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I got my Lotus CC from Garry Kemp, nozzle and all.. I think I paid 450GBP for it two years ago. Maybe he can source one for you..

At this point I plan on not using the secondary injectors.. I will try and configure it with mains alone.. dont know if the PW will go low enough to idle high impedance (400-500cc/m) inj properly. I just recently got a Pectel T6 ECU but it is not the latest issue and doesnt have drivers to run low impedance inj.. I am in discussions with RC Engineering and Pectel about solutions. I guess we'll see.. J

[f1karting]

Here is some support for my "no oil cooler" idea..

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom2.shtml

and.. some more information snips..

"...

Why Petroleum Oils are Insufficient

Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are a refined substance. Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is done. Thus, there are many components of petroleum oils which are completely unnecessary for protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to lubricate your engine. In fact, there are even some components of petroleum oils which are actually harmful to your engine.

Prone to Break Down

Some of the chemicals in conventional lubricants break down at temperatures within the normal operating range of many vehicle and equipment components. Others are prone to break down in these relatively mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway. These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be impossible or excessively expensive.

When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and maintains little heat transfer ability.

Poor Cold Temperature Start-ups

Petroleum lubricants are also likely to contain paraffins which thicken dramatically in cold temperatures. As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for as long as five minutes after startup! Obviously, significant wear can occur during this time frame.

Marginal Heat Control

Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they still don't do it all that well. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of molecules which vary greatly in size. As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy molecules work like a blanket around hot components.

There is another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their effectiveness as well. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case with molecules of differing size. It would be much like putting one layer of marbles on top of another. If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient. In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of controlling heat in your engine...."

.. I guess thats why our cars have coolers.. installed before the advent of decent synthetic oils.. J

Edited April 16, 2006 by f1karting

[esprithk]

there are some good oil cooler in this web site

http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/intro.html

Edited April 16, 2006 by esprithk

[docf]

I've noticed that once the car is warmed up the oil temp basically equilibrates with coolant temp.. make sense since they are 2 fluids basically cooling the same piece of metal. I could see how a good oil cooling system can help share the heat load, but what lotus has scrapped together is light years away from a good system. For the life of me I can see how 25 feet of tubing and 2 rinky dink coolers mounted in an area with so little air flow (make that none at idle and low speed cruising) contributes anything to the car other than a source for potential breakdown. I dont know if I would be brave enough to run no cooler though.. since oil drained from the turbo is subject to extreme spikes in temp and if anything its nice to have a reservoir of low temp oil to dump back into the system. Some other options i am considering are an air/water setup (logistical pain) and a chassis rail mounted single tube setup (porsche 911 style)

[f1karting]

I've noticed that once the car is warmed up the oil temp basically equilibrates with coolant temp.. make sense since they are 2 fluids basically cooling the same piece of metal.  I could see how a good oil cooling system can help share the heat load, but what lotus has scrapped together is light years away from a good system.  For the life of me I can see how 25 feet of tubing and 2 rinky dink coolers mounted in an area with so little air flow (make that none at idle and low speed cruising) contributes anything to the car other than a source for potential breakdown.  I dont know if I would be brave enough to run no cooler though.. since oil drained from the turbo is subject to extreme spikes in temp and if anything its nice to have a reservoir of low temp oil to dump back into the system.  Some other options i am considering are an air/water setup (logistical pain)  and a chassis rail mounted single tube setup (porsche 911 style)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds interesting.. got anymore info on that system? J

[Artie]

I got my Lotus CC from Garry Kemp, nozzle and all.. I think I paid 450GBP for it two years ago.  Maybe he can source one for you.. 

At this point I plan on not using the secondary injectors.. I will try and configure it with mains alone.. dont know if the PW will go low enough to idle high impedance (400-500cc/m) inj properly. I just recently got a Pectel T6 ECU but it is not the latest issue and doesnt have drivers to run low impedance inj.. I am in discussions with RC Engineering and Pectel about solutions.  I guess we'll see.. J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I think I have located a suitable donor right here in KC. An SE was wrecked a couple of weeks ago and I contacted the guy, once the insurance settles with him on his total he will sell me what I need!!!!! I plan on buying his CC, piping with injectors, cam cover with center oil fill. Also, I hope to buy his barely used (read new) WC engineering custom larger turbo(depends on what he asks for it). I think I may get a lamda wideband tuner and use an additional injector controller for the secondary injectors or I may just bite the bullet and buy the SE type ecu and get a chip.

Art

[Paul93Lotus]

I think scrapping the oil coolers completely is not a good idea. Almost every car with a turbocharger today has some type of oil cooler. Since the OEM's are huge on keeping car costs down, the inclusion of an oil cooler points to the assumption that an oil cooler is a necessity for longevity. While the engine doesn't likely need it, the turbo is what really benefits from it. I imagine you scrap the cooler and coking on the turbocharger bearings,etc will be accelerated greatly.

I imagine that the front ducts get more airflow combined than that side duct...but with a puller fan you could probably make up for it and then some. Today's coolers are probably better in efficiency as well. As long as you can fabricate some system to exhaust the heat, I think it is a good idea.

[f1karting]

How about this..

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_pro...&action=product

[Paul93Lotus]

How about this..

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_pro...&action=product

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet that would work great...plumbed into the engine cooling? Setrab has a good reputation for building quality heat exchangers.