No Drive!

[MrP]

Hi all, I dont seem to have any drive?

My esprit has been quite hard to engage gear for a while now usually 1st gear, on a drive home the other day when trying to engage 3rd it was very hard to do so and I had to apply some force to put it in when doing so there was a bit of a bang and I thought that didn't sound to good, so I decided to leave it in that gear and drive all the way home.

When I got home I took it out of gear and tried to select another gear, I tried every gear but there is absolutely no drive? it now seems to select every gear as smooth as silk but wont move lol, can someone point me in the right direction, I could do with some help.

Thanks.

[Bibs]

I'd imagine that your moving the gearstick and cables and not engaging gears, the rear translator may have popped the cables off under the force of you selecting 3rd that time? Get your head under the back of the car and have a peek at the rear of the gearbox to check the cables are ok, perhaps get someone in the cabin fiddling with your knob while you look to see what's going on?

[MrP]

Hi Bibs all the cables are ok, could it be clutch related or maybe I have broken something in the gearbox?

I like the idea of sitting in the cabin and getting someone to fiddle with my knob but I would rather get the car fixed first

[Bibs]

So just to clarify, are the gears silky smooth to select with the engine running and clutch depressed or with it turned off? If the first, you're lifting the clutch with it in gear and not moving anywhere?

[MrP]

With the engine running I can select ANY gear or it feels like I am, but it has never been so easy to select a gear before having this problem. It doesnt matter wether I am pressing the clutch or not makes no difference, I can lift my foot off the clutch and nothing happens?

[WEllison]

I am guessing an input shaft for totally blow clutch problem.

[Günter]

lift up the rear, get with your hands on the gear-selector on the back of the gearbox, select a gear, lower the car to the ground, get in the car, press the clutch, start the car, release the clutch -does the car move (this is to verify that your cables on the gearstick are not just getting lost..)

[MrP]

I am guessing an input shaft for totally blow clutch problem.

I dont quite understand what you mean?

Gunter, I am pretty sure it is selecting gears fine, but its too late now as I have removed the gearbox and clutch.

What tests can I do and what should I be looking at?

[MrP]

Also I dont have any experience of twin plate clutches, can the housing some how get jammed so the clutch is constantly dis-engaged?

For instance I have pressed the clutch pedal and somehow as I have released the pedal the clutch housing or something has got wedged allowing it to just spin around?

[WEllison]

I would start by checking the transmission. Since NO gear seems to work I would suspect a broken input shaft. Try locking one of the axel ouput splines in place with a wire through the roll pin hole. Engage a gear and rotate the input shaft while loading the other axel output shaft with your hand. Make sure that you can couple the load from the input shat to the turning axel shaft. You could also count input turns to ouput turns as you select different gears. If the input shaft just spins, the problem is in the transmission, open it up!

You never indicated any problem with the feel of the clutch, which would indicate that the spring diaphram was ok. You can veriffy that now that you have the clutch out. Both disks would have to have their center sections blown out in order not to couple any power to the transmission. Again you can now look at the clutch.

[MrP]

Right I took my gearbox to my gearbox centre and they did a couple of test on it basically what you suggested to do Wayne thanks and said it is sweet as a nut.

I have took some pics of the clutch so you can have a look and give your opinion/suggestions. The clutch assembly face doesnt look great to me, can you have these refaced?

[WEllison]

The disk looks very worn. The thickness specified, for each disk, by Lotus is 7.0 mm. As worn as the disks are and as burned as the pressure plate is you should have had some warning about clutch problems.

you must have a modified transmission with a ford input spline as the disk has 1" x 23 written on it!

[MrP]

I was wondering about that standard one are 1" x 24 right?

It is an 2002 does that make any difference are the ford input spline an upgrade then?

[WEllison]

I don't remember what size the stock renault input shaft is.

All the stock UN1 transimiisions had the same size input shafts. The good news is your transmission has been upgraded to a stronger input shaft and gearset. Several aftermarket suppliers have provided these overs the years. GTO/Quaffie being the most recent. The bad news is you can't use a stock Lotus clutch. Maybe that's also good news! GTO in the UK can provide a clutch with the 1" x 23T splines. I would check with the P.O. about the transmission. The stock clutch waS AP # CP5082-18GRY.

Looking at the picture again, the splines look like more than 23? Count the splines on the input shaft to be sure.

Edited May 18, 2011 by WEllison

[MrP]

Ahhhh that is good news happy days

Ive been searching the forum since you mentioned it using just the term "ford" bought up some good info on it.

Yes noticed that I wont be able to use the standard lotus clutch but from what I read it means that replacing the clutch will be far cheaper (not sure how much yet) as I can buy a replacement clutch direct from AP with the ford fitment, part no CP5082-18GRY (special).

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EModifications/Gearbox.html

I have counted the splines and there are definately 23, do you think that I need to buy a complete new assembly or can the assembly be skimmed/resurfaced and just buy 2 new friction plates?

[WEllison]

I don't know how long you have had the car, but the clutch looks like it's been abused, clearly it's been fried! So how much can you trust the clamping force of the diaphram and clutch plates after all that heat? Since it's a pain to get to, I would replace the entire clutch! You will need to resurface the flywheel and maintain the 3.5 mm "step" that the clutch cover bolts to. This is a critical dimension and you must have a competent machine shop maintain the step very acuractly. The new replacement clutch will come assembled, but I would verify the thickness of each disk friction material (7.0 mm) and then the clutch stack "build up" from the surface of the flywheel to the top clutch plate is 35.5 mm. There has been instances of wrong parts being sent. You will need a correctly splined shaft to align the two disks to the spigot (throw out) bearing. I would replace the spigot bearing also.

Good luck

[WEllison]

I need to correct the previous posting.

The spigot bearing is what we in the States call the pilot bearing, not the throw out bearing. I would also check the throw out bearing for roughness. You don't wnat to go back in to replace it later.

[MrP]

You will need to resurface the flywheel and maintain the 3.5 mm "step" that the clutch cover bolts to. This is a critical dimension and you must have a competent machine shop maintain the step very acuractly.

Good luck

I have spoken to the chap who is having my flywheel ground and told him about whats been said regarding the 3.5mm step. He has since been in contact with Lotus and has been told that the step is 2.5mm!! like you have said it is a critical dimension and I am now a bit worried as what is actually correct, can anyone confirm for sure what is correct?

[Bibs]

Who at Lotus did they speak to? Was it Fred down the road whose cousin once worked there and now has an Élan or did they speak to Lotus technical in Hethel?

[lotus muncher]

The first 50 v8 esprit's had a 5.5mm step. All the later version's run a 3.5mm step.( just to clarify..)

There is no mention any-where of a 2.5mm step.!. And i also would like to know as to whom your friend spoke to at lotus and where this info was obtained from.

[MrP]

Who at Lotus did they speak to? Was it Fred down the road whose cousin once worked there and now has an Élan or did they speak to Lotus technical in Hethel?

They Spoke to or emailed a chap called Andy Plant?

[Bibs]

Andy Plant knows what he's on about.

It's definitely 2.5mm, the drawings have been checked and one was measured in the workshop and it's 100% 2.5mm (tolerance 2.46 to 2.54), without doubt on the twin plate cars. The manual has the step written in 2 places, one of them is a typo which was later corrected I believe.

[MrP]

Ahhh brilliant thank you Bibs for clearing that up.

I certainly didnt want to doubt what was said by the factory, but like you said the manual (that I have) does say 3.5mm and 5.5mm for the early ones, no mention of 2.5mm.

Once again thanks

[WEllison]

Thanks again for clearing that up Bibs. My manual only references 3.5 mm for the later V8 clutches! ?

[MrP]

Ok I have had my flywheel re-surfaced and my AP clutch eventually turned up so now it has all been put back together and hooray I can select every gear and the car moves. I sat in the car for around 5 mins selcting all gears the more I did this the longer the throw became to select 1st until eventually POP it was like stirring porridge. I got out the car and the linkage on the side of the box had snapped/come apart OMG!!

I guess when I originally tried to force it into 3rd I snapped the cable but when I looked at the linkages they appeared to be in tact even when I moved them by hand I could see the gear lever moving and vice a versa the same thing when moving the gear lever.

So I have just spent the best part of 2K for nothing, I guess the clutch would of needed to replaced soonish anyway but still, and on top of that I now need a new selector cable (anyone have a spare)