Charge cooler woes!

[nickh]

Having already sourced myself an electric pump and the blanking plug, and read all the relevant hints and tips here, there and everywhere, today was the day to get the whole thing up and running .........or so i thought!!!

Step 1. Remove hoses from exsisting mechanical pump-no problem. At this point you will loose some water from the system..........errrr, NO!!

So there's no water in the system? That might explain things. Proceeded to pour some water down the inlet pipe, and it soon started to leak out at the front end. BRILLIANT!!

It would therefore appear i have a problem with the CC rad. Have so far removed the front lip spoiler and 2oil cooler undertrays-needless to say having had to grind away a fair few of the ridiculous retaining screws (i'll worry about that later ) Still no nearer even seeing what's going on in there!!

I would be really greatful if anyone has any tips on how to get the whole rad assembly out easily, or for any info regarding this problem if anyone has indeed come across this before? I have read up in the service notes but they're not really that helpful other than stating the obvious.

Thanks in anticipation as always.

Nick.

[Vulcan Grey]

No rust or leaks on mine, but I have removed and cleaned the radiators.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lotusse/LotusRadiatorradiator

I saw Lotus had some CC-and AC rads in the sale...

[Ginger pig]

Hi Nick,

I have a new AC/CC rad plus a AC rad, also a used AC/CC rad which is surplus to my requirements if indeed your unit is duff.

[Rich H]

The biggest problem witll be the oil cooler bolts.

Inboard end of the oil coolers is bolted down through the inner wings with a mild steel bolt into the ali cooler.

Spray with penetrating oil and leave then repeat a few times.

Once these are out (Or snapped...) then you can gently swing the coolers out the way.

Get the car as high as possible and unbolt the cowling that holds the rad in place (More crusty bolts) and eventually you can drop the lot.

It's a right old faff but possible. You can then see the problem.

I think mine was a copper rad so you might be able to solder it, but repalcemetn once the rad pack is out shouldn't be hard.

It's also time to strip/clean/refurb the rad too.

[andydclements]

Get the car up nice and high at the front so you can lower and raise the whole unit on a pair of trolley jacks or one of those motorcycle jacks.

You could work on the unit without undoing oil coolers etc if necessary but it may be very awkward.

[nickh]

Well thanks for the replies so far, have to say it sounds like a barrel of laughs ...... NOT !!

Hopefully will get back to the job tomorrow afternoon and Saturday morn. Might actually be able to see what's going on by then

Will update progress as and when.

[Rich H]

A few pics from my rad change might be of interest.

You can see where the steel in the cowl needed to be replaced and the cowl repaired.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Rich H

[nickh]

Right. Got the thing out ! Such fun!! Decided to cut through the fibre glass cowl above the oil coolers as didn't fancy trying to undo them, and it would mean removing the whole abs pump on drivers side to even see the retaining bolts!! To be honest, there's absolutely no reason for the cowl to be fitted between the oil cooler/inner wing anyway.

The radiator itself is in good cond. and looks like it may have been replaced in the past. The CC/air cond. rad. is currently still attached via the 2 pipes (red/black) on the left hand side as you look from the front. Can anyone tell me where these go and are they also water pipes?? Ran out of time last night and didn't want to rush taking them off as the connections look pretty fragile.

So now the car is in many pieces, i may soon be able to get to the root of the initial problem.

[Rich H]

Air con condenser don't undo them if you can avoid it! Mostly because venting R12 gas is illegal...!

[nickh]

Air con condenser don't undo them if you can avoid it! Mostly because venting R12 gas is illegal...!

Well this is what im struggling to get my head round It appears that this is all one complete rad. so it will have to be removed in order to repair/replace it anyway.

Also, how can it have water and gas in it together?? Am i just being a bit thick here or what, but struggling to understand how this whole ''intergrated system'' works??

Finally, as the air con hasn't worked in the 3.5 years i've owned the car, i doubt there'll be much gas in the system anyway.

Any thoughts?

[Advantage]

Although it's one single unit the refrigerant gas and the coolant for the chargecooler circuit are completely independant of each other. It's not the most efficient of units and the two 'radiators' are separate items on later cars.

And yes, it's unlikely to be holding any gas if the a/c hasn't worked for a while.

[nickh]

Although it's one single unit the refrigerant gas and the coolant for the chargecooler circuit are completely independant of each other. It's not the most efficient of units and the two 'radiators' are separate items on later cars.

And yes, it's unlikely to be holding any gas if the a/c hasn't worked for a while.

Thanks for that. I was thinking this must be the only possibility-indeed clearly not a very efficient unit. At this stage im really not bothered about the air con side of things, but clearly have to get the charge cooler business sorted.

[dodge1979]

Yes youll have to undo the two pipes for the aircon aswell. Theyll probably bend or fracture like mine did..I tried repairing them but theyre not very strong to be honest...I had a custome chargecooler rad made up by the chap who made me an uprated cooling radiator..much bigger than the original and obviously more efficient..infact its physically as big as you can get in the space there...and the uprated cooling rad is a must too on this setup!

Now I need to get my aircon working, but the pipes that I repaired are still leaking pressure...so it looks like it needs replacing with a custom job too now....but once youve got everything out, replace all the bolts with new..I used stainless in this area..theyre not load bearing items and the stainless ones will ensure that in the future you can have it all stripped out in an hour Trust me...I know this is possible I tried it!

Darren

[nickh]

Have finally removed CC / air con rad this evening! Thought i'd give it a flush through with hose pipe just to see if there was anything obviously wrong..........now considering using it as a water feature in my garden as its more like a fountain!!

Seriously though, i was very surprised that upon undoing the air con pipes, a small amount of gas was still in the system (no i didn't break the connections ) thus suggesting that the air con rad itself is presumably still in good order??

Now this has got me thinking - given that im not bothered about the air con at all, is there any reason why i couldn't convert this larger section of the ''all in one CC/air con radiator'' to be the charge cooler rad??

Does anyone have an opinion on this, has anybody else tried this, and is there any reason why this would not be feasible??

Obviously it would mean extending the inlet/outlet pipes to the other side and modifying the connections in some way, but this wouldn't be too difficult as they're only fitted with jubilee clips normally anyway.

This would also avoid the cost of a refurb. or renewal, as well as the benefit of the increased cooling capacity.

Looking forward to any feedback guys.

Nick.

[Vulcan Grey]

That was an option on the Sport 300 and X180-R. THe Lotus manual shows how to connect the AC condensor and chargecooler rad into one larger radiator for the chargecooler.

[nickh]

That was an option on the Sport 300 and X180-R. THe Lotus manual shows how to connect the AC condensor and chargecooler rad into one larger radiator for the chargecooler.

So just converting the AC condenser into a CC rad. and leaving the defunked current CCrad. out of the equation altogether is indeed a possibility?

When you say Lotus manual do you mean the service notes? If so, mine only cover the S4 and V8 and can't find anything in there about this.

[Vulcan Grey]

yeah, you could do that...

It's actually in the parts manual, where it shows how to connect the two as one radiator for the chargecooler.

But you could buy anew one from the factory pretty cheap! I saw they had one in the sale (though that was in '09)

Esprit 1991-95 A082K4226F CHARGECOOLER RADIATOR/CONDENSER (Qty 31) £618.77 list price £72.34 sale price

[nickh]

WOW!! Now that's what i call a sale!! Out of interest, how do you order straight from the factory?

Have seen the diagram for the sport 300 conversion-this makes me even more sure that i will use the AC rad. as my CC rad.

Can anyone tell me the capacity of both the cooling system and the charge cooler system so that when i finally get round to refilling it, i can add the correct amount of antifreeze?? Obviously this will not be an exact science but a rough idea would be helpful.

Thanks, Nick.

[Vulcan Grey]

Not sure they have any left, but worth checking.

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/index.php/topic/40891-lotus-parts-sale

[dodge1979]

The rads are no longer available. I think SJ bought up the last couple and there silly prices if you can get one. The best bet is to have a custom chargecooler rad built like I did to replace it and cut the aircon one off and reuse it as a seperate unit still. Its not a difficult task and youll end up with a chargecooler that works very well! If you want any more details Im happy to show you what Ive done if you like

[nickh]

Having spent last week at the Assen Moto GP , have finally got around to finishing off this CC/radiator/electric pump job!!

NEVER AGAIN is all i can say! (fingers crossed).

What a total pain in the arse getting the pump to prime up turned out to be, especially after trying to follow the ''step by step'' guide given on lotusespritworld ! ''.....now put a hose pipe to the inlet from the rad. and put this in a bucket low down whilst connecting the outlet from the charge cooler to another bucket placed on top then bypass the charge cooler system and reconnect the outlet to the inlet from the radiator then back to the outlet from the pump and into another bucket containing anti-freeze but don't let it run dry etc. etc.''

What the !!!!! Talk about double Dutch-i had more chance trying to fathom the road signs in the Netherlands last week!!

Anyway, have managed to get everything working in a fashion, although im not entirely happy the electric pump is doing as good a job as i think it could-and when i removed the mechanical pump, it seemed to be in quite good order, but as i already purchased the electric pump and blanking plug and as it seems to be nigh on impossible to reconnect the hoses to the mechanical pump with it in situ, i decided to proceed with the conversion.

Early test drives seem to be showing much improvement and a coolish to the touch charge cooler so hopefully will get some much better temp. readings from freescan at the weekend. In the meantime, here's hoping i don't come across any little puddles of wee wee under my car between now and then!!

Thanks to all for your help/advice/suggestions as always.

Nick.

Edited June 28, 2011 by nickh