Must See!

[Bentzion]

I see this guy is featuring this forum on him page but cant find any entries here so excuse me if this is a repeat.

This guy's skills are unique and I can't wait to see it all done.

We should show our support and go onto his facebook page below:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/F1-Motorsports-Lotus-Esprit-Restoration/178516808826230

[Chris Southam]

Been following for a while now, very interesting indeed

[nic996]

Been following it too. Excellent work. However, it would be Interesting to see if indeed that chassis is any stiffer and lighter than the standard chassis. I would bet would be neither to both.

[Chris Southam]

I doubt it'll be lighter but it might be slightly stronger. It'll possibly be a lot of work for no gain at all!

[dodge1979]

Ive been following this one for some tine too...its friends.with my lotus restoration page...

[The Real Stig]

Looking at their skills in kevlar/carbon technology I wonder, why they didn't make the centre tunnel in these lighter and much stiffer materials.

[Bentzion]

Been following it too. Excellent work. However, it would be Interesting to see if indeed that chassis is any stiffer and lighter than the standard chassis. I would bet would be neither to both.

I've always wondered why people on forums might make such claims about someone's hard work UNLESS the person IS say....a chasis specialist or metal stress analyst. If you read the site he says that he took the chasis to a specialist and he probably spent tons of money with someone that knows how to fab a chasis!

Just saying.....

Edited March 27, 2012 by Bentzion

[nic996]

I think you will find that I am not making any claims whatsoever. Perhaps you should read the quote. I am merely conveying my thoughts from experience, as you say "just saying".

I started with a compliment for a reason and yes I have designed chassis's and I do work as a design engineer for a major Motor manufacturer.

[Bentzion]

I think you will find that I am not making any claims whatsoever. Perhaps you should read the quote. I am merely conveying my thoughts from experience, as you say "just saying".

I started with a compliment for a reason and yes I have designed chassis's and I do work as a design engineer for a major Motor manufacturer.

Well then you must know what your talking about then...

If you work for a major manufacturer does that mean that you use software to do the stress analysis?

BTW He has confirmed that he is 10lbs lighter so far though.

[nic996]

Well then you must know what your talking about then...

If you work for a major manufacturer does that mean that you use software to do the stress analysis?

BTW He has confirmed that he is 10lbs lighter so far though.

The weight reduction is estimated not confirmed.

I am not trying to ruffle feathers here and I am not laying claims to be an expert and I am definitely not disrespecting the guys skills. I would love to had those hands on skills. (Or the workshop, time and money at least)

However when you say that it is a no brainer that your tubular chassis will outperform a "heater tube" as he calls it, is underestimating the original design significantly. The Chapman design is actually very good and easily stiff enough for the job. F1 still uses the same basic design albeit with different materials. Ok things can be improved and as I am surrounded by Chassis guys and we did look at it. Perhaps there will be an increase in stiffness and perhaps he has reduced the weight by 4kg. Will it be achieved? It was my "bet" that neither will be achieved (perhaps in hind sight as Chris said, a marginal torsional stiffness increase). Is it worth it? In my opinion no. Not to mention that he has introduced numerous potential failure points over the original. Personally as he is intending to fit a roll cage anyway, the gain in torsional stiffness would have been better served from that. In a road car, 4 kilos weight reduction can easily be achieved by eating salad for a week.

I love the project and I follow it eagerly.

[nic996]

Spot on Buddsy.

That and the fact there is almost sweet F.A. in terms of side impact protection. Hope that door beam was properly tested back in the day

Found this link which explains the basics very well indeed. The Backbone section sums it up nicely

http://www.initialda...sisbasics01.htm

[nemick]

This is a pretty interesting project and the builder is obviously exercising a labour of love, beautifully. I can see what he is trying to achieve, but I'm not convinced that I would have gone about it the same way. The torsional rigidity of the "Heater Duct" chassis is clearly fairly low, but it is part of a system that includes the body shell. I would be interested in knowing the torsional rigidity of the body shell as well as the chassis and in my case I think I would explore the possibility of improving the chassis/body shell interface. I did see somewhere that later cars or at least some versions had more body shell mounting points and I could see how this might be a better solution to increasing the overall rigidity. It will be interesting to see the final weight of this special chassis, as I am dubious that it will be any lighter when finished.

In any event, kudos to the guy making it as it is a beautiful piece.

[Günter]

there are some points on the welding of the parts who are questionable..(see the 'cage' album) -some welds are stronger than the parts to hold, even mention some added pieces are overheated and shaped wrong.

Other than that -interesting project!

[andydclements]

Even spyder don't go totally tubular they still use stressed skin for some of it.

http://www.spydercars.com/eur_sf_chassis_kit.htm

And I'm surprised nobody has attempted to say tubular is a spaceframe construction, which would normally mean it's a cage with the driver & passenger being inside it. I don't know if anybody has stated it is on Facebook as I don't have an account.

[Günter]

it is on facebook, and yes -if you place a profile wider on distance from the 'overall center'you get a more 'stiffened up' effect for the system ..nothing to say you get free space to use inbetween

[Bentzion]

it is on facebook, and yes -if you place a profile wider on distance from the 'overall center'you get a more 'stiffened up' effect for the system ..nothing to say you get free space to use inbetween

It seems that he's got a chasis shop to help him build this thing. I thought that it would have been nice for him to stiffen up whats already there with a cage and make tubular arms of sorts with new geometry and travel he's going for. The rest of the mods look ti be solid and proven none the less. I especially love the stance of the black on tan turbo he's got in pics. It's tasty!

[Günter]

That's what I mean ..a simple cage would give more (or at least enough..) effect to stiffen this thing up. -as long as the chassis (suspension) load-points are an integral part of the cage ..some details look like the 'roll hub' is just bolted onto the fibre body on the base ??

*oh and yes, there is a company / guy for nearly every section on this project to help and assist him -as shown on the project frontpage

[molemot]

Very nice work....but...why?? Seems overcomplicated to me....it's getting like my mower, more weld than structure. He seems to have replaced a perfectly adequate and beautifully simple sheet metal backbone with a structure of welded tube with tens, if not hundreds, of potential failure points...a very large amount of welds close to each other. I wonder what might be happening to the molecular structure of the tube and it's hardness, given all the asymmetric heating and cooling that must have gone on. Very pretty, though.....

[Bentzion]

Very nice work....but...why?? Seems overcomplicated to me....it's getting like my mower, more weld than structure. He seems to have replaced a perfectly adequate and beautifully simple sheet metal backbone with a structure of welded tube with tens, if not hundreds, of potential failure points...a very large amount of welds close to each other. I wonder what might be happening to the molecular structure of the tube and it's hardness, given all the asymmetric heating and cooling that must have gone on. Very pretty, though.....

This is where the process of cryogenics would come in and reverse most of the crystalline structure post tension and weak point issues. But that's a discussion for another thread im afraid. Either way I hope he makes it work.

[pyropolymer]

The Chapman design is actually very good and easily stiff enough for the job. F1 still uses the same basic design albeit with different materials. Ok things can be improved and as I am surrounded by Chassis guys and we did look at it. Perhaps there will be an increase in stiffness and perhaps he has reduced the weight by 4kg. Will it be achieved? It was my "bet" that neither will be achieved (perhaps in hind sight as Chris said, a marginal torsional stiffness increase). Is it worth it? In my opinion no. Not to mention that he has introduced numerous potential failure points over the original. Personally as he is intending to fit a roll cage anyway, the gain in torsional stiffness would have been better served from that. In a road car, 4 kilos weight reduction can easily be achieved by eating salad for a week.

I love the project and I follow it eagerly.

the esprit backbone chassis if far from stiff enough and that’s from mr. esprit roger becker himself. he's been quoted they are unable to stiffen up the springs much more than the stock set up which will result in the chassis becoming the spring. for reference, the lotus factory says the lightweight elise chassis is 6x torsionally stiffer than the esprit!

i do agree that fitting a roll cage to the pick up points would be more effective much in the fashion of the doc bundy SCCA cars. never the less it space frame chassis is beautifully fabricated and I’m great full he's sharing his build with the esprit community

respectfully

pp