JPS Elite Project [Double Trouble]

[johnpwalsh]

Yep, start with the coil, ballasted against none ballasted for the original would be a good thing to check first.

 

[Dunc]

check your rotor arm dimensions.

the cap varies between electronic and points ignition.

[alastair_james_cox]

Thanks all, 

Very useful :-)

So is this course of action correct:

Fit the Eclat distributor back on the engine (make sure the correct cap / rotor is on)

Fit the Eclat coil onto the Elite loom 

Remove the Elite's ballast resistor (wire) from the passenger footwell? 

The notes on the ballast resistor wire are here:

Has anyone removed their ballast resistor wire? 

Given the price it sounds like a new coil wouldn't hurt at this stage either. Can anyone make any recommendations?

Best, Alastair 

 

 

[Clive59]

I have an S1 Elite and an S2, both points and electronic had ballast coils. I would have thought using ballasted coils was better as a better spark available during cranking.

Instead of replacing the resistive wire, if you want to go unballasted, might be easier to make the resistance wire drive a relay to switch the 12V instead? 1.5ohms on a 70ma relay will only loose .1V so irrelevant.

Oh, and the Powerspark ignition I put on the S1 works fine with the ballast wire in circuit, so wouldn't be concerned there either. Clearly the electronics works fine on 6-8volts, which I don't find at all surprising.

 

[Dunc]

powerspark will sell you a balast resistor, and you can feed 12v to it.

[alastair_james_cox]

Many thanks, 

I think I'm following :-)

So if I check the coil on the Eclat and it's 9V it's possible / likely that the Eclat has a ballasted system too and all I need to do is swap the coil over?

- Swap distributor 

- Check cap and rotor 

- Swap coil 

- Wire up ?

Best, Al. 

[Dunc]

Hi Alastair,

Yes, all of them should be ballasted ignition I think, with a link wire from the starter to the coil to feed it under cranking. After you release the key, the feed for the coil switches over to the ballasted wire to keep the engine running after it kicks.. I think they stopped ballasting with the eclat excel and the advent of the AB14 ignition amplifier/rev limiter.

However there is always the possibility of a previous owner swapping to a 12v coil and bypassing the resistance wire (its a resistance wire (pink?) rather than a "normal" ballast resistor on the side of the coil).

If the car has been laid up a while, try cleaning the contact poles of the ignition switch as they can give trouble - I had this in my excel. It started like a trooper, but only when you released the key. It would crank over and over without firing, then immediately burst into life when you released the key back to its normal ignition point = dirty poles.

If you have no spark with the points, definately check the rotor arm and cap, then work upstream.

Have you replaced the link wire from the starter solenoid to the coil? (apologies i it sounds patronising) - just trying to think of what would cause the symptom you describe after an engine swap. Have you checked that the spade on the solenoid that feeds the coil is live when cranking?

[alastair_james_cox]

Thanks Dunc, Clive, 

Both cars have a pink (I think!) cloth covered wire that goes to the coil (I know they are hard wires for sure). So it sounds like both are ballasted but I'll ask my father to check. That's a great list to work through too and thanks for taking the time. I'll report back in a couple of weeks :-)

In other more positive news I had in the back of my mind that the Eclat headlamps were 'staying down' so I had one off to take a look and there's some kind of conversion that's already been done. 

They look like whacking big electric motors just to pop up the headlamps but if the hard works been done already I think they can go on the Elite too. I'll share photos to see if anyone recognises what type of motor and setup. 

Best, Al

 

[Dunc]

Are the cars in London Al, or still at your parents?

 

 

[alastair_james_cox]

I'm now in a village just outside of Cambridge so hoping to bring the Elite over here (from my parents in Yorkshire) once there's an MOT. So the long term outlook is good ... and if possible I'll hold onto the Eclat until I can put the engine back in and then it can have a new home. It has a steel chassis and painted leather seats though so it will need to go to a die hard fan ;-)

[alastair_james_cox]

Sigh.

The Elite:

In the end we left the Elite coil and distributor in place and put on some lovely new ht leads and a set of new plugs. After getting a good spark and some fiddling about we  now have running motor with good compression in the Elite.  I can honestly say there was no time to celebrate before seeing water 'squirting' from under the head ... just above the centre of the exhaust manifold. I managed to dangle my phone between the bodywork and the underneath of the head and as you can see from that attached photo the core plug has gone. What to do? Has anyone manged to change the centre core plug with the engine in the car?  Presumably I'll need to do them all ... how many are there? 

The Eclat: 

Also attached is a shot of the motors that drive the headlights on the Eclat. As you can see it's a rats nest but may save me some work if I use them on the Elite as some of the hard work is done ... does anyone recognise what they're from?

Overall things are not going well and at some point the Eclat is going to have to go. Simply as life has moved on and there's no place to store it. Which seams a shame as it looks like there are so few left. Ideally I'd like to sell it to someone who's in it for the long term as at some point (years off though ..) then engine will become available. It's a steel chassis (solid .. after a previous body off restoration) and the overall interior is good but the seats are dog rough. Thoughts on what to do are welcomed but as it stands it looks like e-bay. 

Priority one is core plugs ...

Best, Al

 

 

[TAR]

Not sure ow many core plugs you'll need. 

The motor looks like the S2.2 Elite/Eclat or early Esprit. Its mounted upside down to how it would be in those cars.

 

[alastair_james_cox]

Thanks Tim, worth doing then :-)

Looking at the core plugs today I 'may' be able to get to at least the leaking one through the wheel well. One for my next trip up home. But I'm sure it will be painful.

Best, Al

[alastair_james_cox]

Hi there, 

After trying to keep both cars, in the end the Eclat has to go. It's probably best as someone else will be able to get to grips with it rather than it sitting under a sheet of plastic. Currently on e-bay with no reserve. The Elite I'll keep on and I should be able to get the engine back out to get to the core plugs when I manage to sort some new (covered) storage.  

Best, Al

[Painterdave]

Did it pass the mot

[Painterdave]

Ar I missed the last bit don't know how you find the time good man

[alastair_james_cox]

Well. This project has just got the better of me. The car is with me in Cambridge and went up on Car and Classic as a project last week. Mainly as I couldn't face taking the engine and gear box out on the drive to change the core plugs. Over the weekend I decided to bite the bullet though (unseasonably warm) and managed to change the centre core plug on the cylinder head with my own head in the wheel well. In the end - easy. 

The engine fired up straight away today and it has good oil pressure too but it's not selecting reverse. I'm sure I took John's advice and 'remembered to put it in 4th gear before removing the gear lever' but it's been so long I just can't rely on my own memory. 

At the bottom of the gear lever is a big green plastic nut with a washer / lock tabs underneath that holds the gear stick into the box. It doesn't feel sharp at all though and there is vertical 'lift' if I pull up on the gear lever. I can get 1st but not Reverse.

Before I get too despondent is there any way to remove the stick from the box in situ? And is there any way to reset the gearbox with it in the car?

It's a shame really. Floods of optimism every time I take the cover off but not enough time to get to grips with it. So it still has to go ... along with the original engine for rebuild.

Best, Al

 

 

[mikeeech]

That's a shame. Restoring a car is a long committment and takes more time and money than I think anyone appreciates at the start of the project. Enthusiasm will always win early on. I hope you find a good home for it.

[alastair_james_cox]

Thanks Mike, 

It really is 50/50 at the moment. There's a firm offer on the table from a friend once it has an MOT which is fair enough but then it's a going concern. So may as well stay for a while. I'll be cracking on with the engine out / gearbox next week so any feedback on the sequence for re engaging the gear lever correctly would be much appreciated. 

Progress today was good. Good oil pressure, charging, holding water and most of the electrics (expect the fan and horn) are coming back to life. More on that later though ... as I've not checked the manual to make sure my connectors are all in the right pace! 

Best, Al  

 

 

 

[alastair_james_cox]

I thought I'd share a video of the gearbox symptoms to see what people think. This is a video of the lever in neutral. Then selecting gear 1- 4 and not selecting reverse. As you can see when the lever comes back for gears 1 & 2 it makes contact with the tunnel. Reading the other threads last night it looks like the vertical movement is caused by a missing clip. So that should be easy enough to put right. Taking out the plastic shoulder you can see that the corners have both snapped off on one side. So I'll order one and try that. In the hopes that things will improve.  So that leaves a. Lever fouling the tunnel in 2 & 3 and b. Not finding reverse.

What do you think? Will a new shoulder fix this and is this the correct one?

https://www.burtonpower.com/hd-brass-saddle-gearlever-to-selector-shaft-type-9-e-gbt9539.html

Best, Al.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by alastair_james_cox

[mikeeech]

Oohhh the aluminium trim around the switch panel looks in good nick. I'm jealous😜😥

[tom kilner]

Who needs reverse with a radio like that?

[alastair_james_cox]

For sale. Cool radio with a Lotus Elite attached. £2,500

Or

For sale. Console chrome surround strip with Lotus Elite attached. £2,500?

I know ... no adverts but I'm hoping some sense of humour will see me through. As it stands my father has just been out to his shed and the original gearbox is selecting all gears. It's also a known quantity. So if the engine has to come out ... the original box can go back in. 

Al

 

 

 

[Straker]

Have you checked the position of the reverse gear switch? If it’s been screwed it too far it can cause gear selection problems?

with all the hard to find trim there and in good condition your not that far from a very nice car

[alastair_james_cox]

Thanks Rob, 

That's a good clue. Let me look on Monday.

Yes, it's all there (nearly) and a bit tired but overall a good honest car. 

Let's see how the next few weeks go ... it at the top of the to-do list (finally). So there may be a happy ending ... or at good project for someone else with a list of jobs.   

Al