Elise vs Esprit Public Perception

[mamovaka]

I've tried to stay out of this but I really am boggled at how you can say that you notice a difference of 0.8 seconds over Qtr Mile? 0-60 of 4.1 beats the

Porsche 997 GT3 (4.2)

Ferrari F355 (4.6)

Gallardo (equal to)

Koenigsegg CC8s (4.2)

Viper GTS (4.3)

Merc AMG SL65 (4.4)

and on and on and on and on etc etc .

Let me enlighten you as I have done a ton of research on the Elise/Exige and their respective 0-60 numbers..

4.9 from the factory with the elise requires an 8k clutch drop, with the exige S you can get 4.1 with a 5k clutch drop due to the supercharger..There is a thread on Elisetalk that discusses that Lotus now is using the computer to avoid warranty payments when a clutch drop is in effect, which basically means the Elise is a 5.6 to 60 car and the Exige S is about 4.9 which is = Boxster S performance.. hardly a supercar.

All these numbers you just gave me are cars that are launching at a normal rev line (1-2k rpm) and mind you, the QUARTER MILE, which is a much better indicator of a cars overall power and acceleration, the Exige S only Achieves 13.0 in the Quarter mile(with a hard clutch drop), where as the other cars you listed are in the 12's and 11's without a clutch drop (I got 12.2-11.9 in my stock gen 2viper with a 1,500 rpm launch at ATCO, and my Elise was about a 13.8-14.0 with a 1,500 rpm clutch launch at ATCO)

The fast 0-60 is all from the LAUNCH from that clutch drop at 5k rpm.. without an agressive LAUNCH the elise and exige S lost about a full .8 to 1.0 second 0-60 and a ton off the quarter mile.. Where as other cars with larger engines can pull from all speeds, like the Esprit.. a non modded/chipped Esprit can do a 4.1-4.4 jump to 60 and a 12.2-12.8 Quarter miles (different tests read)..

Now you are telling me that a "normal" person can't tell the difference between .8 seconds in a quarter mile run.. let me tell you.. .8 seconds is about 10 carlengths at least.. It's a massive difference in performance.. an Esprit would beat the Exige S by at least 1/2 a second on a QM run, over 5 carlengths easily.. That is a considerably faster car.. and the power margin would only INCREASE past 110mph as the V8 simply has more pull into the 160+ range while the Exige's engine cant push more than 150mph..

Again, I know the elise/exige isn't about a big displacement car than can do 200mph.. its more a autocross and curvy track type of machine.. I know it.. I got it.. I just don't like that aspect.. and as a response to your "to say the exige S is fast is an understatement" I test drove the Exige S also, yeah it's fast.. but NOT as fast as my Esprit, the loud noise is misleading.. Take the noise out of the equation and look at the speedometer climb when you test drive a car.. gives you a better idea if you have nothing else.. but seat of the pants feel the Esprit is faster.. Oh and the Exige S I drove was past the 1k checkup so I was able to take it to the 2nd cam.. it IS fast.. but not Esprit V8 Fast..

I hear about these guys with the forcefed 400 kit in their elise's, seen video's and read stories about how much of a sick THRILL those cars are at that powerlevel.. almost all of them say "THIS IS HOW THE CAR SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE FACTORY" <-- That is all I am saying..

In any case I digress.. Perhaps now that I have an esprit I will purchase a used Exige S in a year or two to enjoy the "fun" factor..

Edited November 29, 2006 by mamovaka

[gmendoza]

Dude, you still don't get the Elise. Yes, the Elise will get owned by many cars on the street when babied. Yes, Lotus will void your warrenty when it sees standing starts but the Elise IS NOT a stop light warrior!! It also isn't a GT!!

The Elise is a street legal go-cart and the last time I checked, carts aren't about confort. The experiece/feeling you get with the Elise on the track is something not many cars can offer. To some, that's worth 50k. You may not think so but then again is a $50k watch worth it? To some it is.

Also, on a fast track, the difference between an Exige S and an Elise is the driver. The Exige needs the blower to overcome the drag.

Edited November 29, 2006 by gmendoza

[matk]

Come on Pano

Totally respect your point of view but it's not logical to start comparing Elise's with Viper's!

I'm a little irritated by comments of "more power" etc etc etc. Please stop knocking the Elise for what it was never supposed to be.

As Kimbers has said Lotus philosophy (and to my mind UNIQUE selling point) is get from A to B as EFFICIENTLY as possible.

If there was a profitable market for an Elise with Viper straight line performance I'm sure Lotus would have met it by now. The fact they haven't should tell you you're in a minority on this one.

Once again I will always listen to and respect your point of view but there is a fine line between making a point and being overly negative towards a manufacturer that has a hard enough time as it is and deserves our support.

You could always put a Viper engine in an Elise yourself! That would be some car............!

[Lowtus]

The Elise is a great car. When I drove it, I had so much fun! I wasnt worried about being "wasted" by other models. It is a pure sports car. If you don't get it now you just never will. Mind you, I love the Esprit and will be looking for one soon. But they are 2 different cars. I'll take both please.

Excellent summary! Bearing in mind we have a 70 mph speed limit in this country there are very few cars at any price which can stay with an Elise 111R in real-world UK driving. It's not a Power car though. And wouldn't be my first choice for adrive from Glasgow to Bristol. But it's a truly superb sports car. Esprit is more of a Supercar and instils a more cautious or less welcoming reaction from other people.

[mamovaka]

Come on Pano

Totally respect your point of view but it's not logical to start comparing Elise's with Viper's!

I'm a little irritated by comments of "more power" etc etc etc. Please stop knocking the Elise for what it was never supposed to be.

As Kimbers has said Lotus philosophy (and to my mind UNIQUE selling point) is get from A to B as EFFICIENTLY as possible.

If there was a profitable market for an Elise with Viper straight line performance I'm sure Lotus would have met it by now. The fact they haven't should tell you you're in a minority on this one.

Once again I will always listen to and respect your point of view but there is a fine line between making a point and being overly negative towards a manufacturer that has a hard enough time as it is and deserves our support.

You could always put a Viper engine in an Elise yourself! That would be some car............!

I don't need it to have viper performance.. perhaps M3 performance though would be nice

In any case.. hey I'm a supporter! within a year I purchased 2 Lotus's

[Viggen]

last time I checked the esprit isn't a 0-60 or 1/4 mi maching either. If you do that stuff the trans will blow up

Roadcoarse driving is all about momentum through turns which is what makes the elise such a great car. The amazing handling allows it to beat cars with 2-3x's the power!

I do agree that they should of used something besides that toyota motor. A 2.0 or a 2.3 turbo motor would do wonders for the elise getting a easy 200-250 HP with similar torque.

[Mark Blanchard]

When Colin Chapman beat the competition in F1, F2 and the Tasmin series, it wasn

[WayneB]

This is my friend Ruth Bryson view of the Elise (she owns the first Elise to be sold in Canada).

The car garners a huge amount of attention here, alot of it being down to its rarity (as do Esprits)

I have found the Elise to be a very different kind of car to the Esprits, and dont think its fair to either to be comparing them to one another.

Both cars do what they do quite well IMO, but I prefer the Esprit as it meets my automotive requirements more closely than the Elise.

As you can see, Ruth is probably not in Lotuses average Elise owners age demographic (understatement), and whilst she finds it a bit of a uncomfortable ride after being in it for 30 minuites, it is a fun car to drive on a curvy road!

[Lowtus]

I drove the Exige S and to say it was fast was an understatement. Get over the slight lag from the Supercharger and it bloody manic! 50-70 speed (classified as overtaking speed over here) beats virtually all of the cars not only in it's class but those several classes above.

Colin would turn in his grave if he heard any Lotus owner saying More horsepower, he would say, nope the horsepowers fine, just remove all those "Well my elise was loaded, it had power inside etc." crappy bits and it would go faster. You want a Sportscar chuck the electric everything and, lets face it, weighty bits and get back to what the car was meant to be about. Driving experience.

Right on the button! Sure there are big engined sports cars which can blast from 80 mph to 150 mph much quicker than Elise/Exige but that's not necessarily what a Lotus is all about. Add lightness......

[Jonathan]

I hear about these guys with the forcefed 400 kit in their elise's, seen video's and read stories about how much of a sick THRILL those cars are at that powerlevel.. almost all of them say "THIS IS HOW THE CAR SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE FACTORY" <-- That is all I am saying..

As I say they should have had the honda lump in it, the Esprit however suffers from the same problem in that the gearbox limited the engine.

Again it is back to drivability - imagine 400hp in the Elise and imagine the cost to it's target market, they'd sell loads less not to mention altering the things like crash structure, chassis dynamics (to plant the car on the road whne accelerating at starship enterprise speeds) add weight, which snowballs so on and so on and so on. Not to mention how many people would get in an smash them (bad enough when the 1st car came out) and have it labeled 'unsafe'.

If you can try and get ahold of the discovery channel's flick on how they made the 1st Elise and see how much effort and forethought goes on getting a car 'right' and to a market that sells, AND how quickly a company like Lotus have to turn it around (Elise was like 2 years from pencil to 1st sale !!! which is incredible).

Forget the figure talk - the only comparison is on the track/strip where you see how much the massaged figures come into play (anyone remember the Noble / Ferrari / TVRs from the rolling road day....someone forgot to bring some horsepower along...)

Proof of the puding is in the eating (or sales figures) and the Elise is by far Lotus' best selling car so they got something right.

[esprits4de]

No need for comments ! B) B) B)

[Kimbers]

Must also point out Mamo that Lotus won GT3 championship this year, now I know much of the competition was much quicker 0-60 and over your beloved Qtr Mile, but who won it?

You also don't need to quote "Factory figures" at me. I personally don't know everything about Lotus but there's a man sipping a beer next to me who does.

[lince]

I think I understand the point in here i love the EXIGE S I even went to check one at miami last week, love the looks the concept of the car and the brand, I drove an elise at the UK and loved the feeling of the car. But if i get an Elise or Exige I wouldn

[arbell9]

Cars are about the balance between speed, acceleration and handling, and when and where you choose to push the limits of those attributes in your car (if you push them at all!)

If you are a 0-60 nut, then get a hypersports or muscle bike, as that will eat any car into the dust in a straight line. my heavy lump of metal , my ZRX1200r muscle machine has 500bhp/ton if I scale it to car proportions, and all that for

[bac1023]

I feel the Elise is a great track car that looks nice on the street as well. However, one of the reasons I love the Esprit so much is sheer rarity. So far in Pennsylvania this year, I have seen 15-20 Elise models. Besides my car, I have seen 1 Esprit. That's quite a difference.

[robcun]

same here - there are no esprits out here at all

rare stuff is cooler for sure

everyone is right - nobody has said anything i havent agreed with on this thread

i rented an elise 111R for a week for the UK factory visit and had a great time. super fun car!!

BUT

the whole time i was missing my esprit. not once was i like "wow this is awesome - i bought the wrong car" instead it felt like i had been spolied already by something WAY sweeter

lots of reasons:

looks

power

interior

boot space

exhaust note

etc

now of course id expect to get more for a car thats way more expensive...

but heres the thing: the esprit gives me a certain FEELING. i cant explain it - im sure you guys know what im talking about - its an emotional response, a chemical reflex deep in the dark juices of my tiny human brain

i dont care WHY i feel it - numbers dont matter - i just DO

and thats that

i put a deposit down on a new esprit but i will withdraw it immediately if it doesnt give me that same feeling

[mamovaka]

I feel the Elise is a great track car that looks nice on the street as well. However, one of the reasons I love the Esprit so much is sheer rarity. So far in Pennsylvania this year, I have seen 15-20 Elise models. Besides my car, I have seen 1 Esprit. That's quite a difference.

Where do you live in PA and what does your esprit look like?

[bac1023]

Where do you live in PA and what does your esprit look like?

PM sent. Here's my Esprit.

[Lowtus]

Elise is by far Lotus' best selling car so they got something right.

YES! YES! YES!

[bac1023]

I think its lower price and better availability have a great deal to do with the sales figures. I'll take rarity over the knowledge that I'm driving the best selling Lotus anyday.

Like I said, I think the Elise is a beautiful car, however I don't think "supercar" when I see it. Of course, that wasn't the intention of the Elise

The Esprit, on the other hand, screams "supercar", in my opinion.

I'll take supercar over track car.

Edited December 1, 2006 by bac1023

[Kimbers]

YES! YES! YES!

Crikey! Make sure you wash down your computer after that!